civic
Active Member
Amen 100%
Why did Jesus say ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me? Did the Father forsake the Son?
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civic
Active Member
So for those who do not want to read through my entire paper I will summarize it below for a more concise version of my theological position based upon the Unity of the Trinity.
These are just some thoughts to ponder before I post my summary of the OP.
When Jesus said, ‘My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me,’
what do you think He meant?”
Before we interpret that verse… what do we know is always true about God?
1-God is Triune
2-God is One in unity
3-God is love
4-God does not contradict Himself
If God is truly one and cannot be divided…
can the Father actually abandon the Son?
The thesis paper is based off of a misunderstanding of Psalm 22:1 So what else is happening in Psalm 22?
Mocking
Piercing
Casting lots
Psalm 22:24 says God has not hidden His face from Him.
Jesus final words were these: Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit. Does that sound like separation—or trust?
Jesus is expressing real suffering on the cross—deep anguish. But that doesn’t mean the Father actually left Him?
The Trinity isn’t broken at the cross—They are working together accomplishing atonement, forgiveness, redemption, salvation etc..... The cross doesn’t show God divided…it shows God united in love to save us.
Have you ever felt like God was distant?
What’s the difference between feeling abandoned and actually being abandoned?
Do you think David is saying God had abandon him in Psalm 22:1 ?
How does this change how you see what Jesus went through?
Even when it feels like God is distant…He is not absent. Just like the Father was with the Son.
Summary to follow.............
hope this helps !!!
These are just some thoughts to ponder before I post my summary of the OP.
When Jesus said, ‘My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me,’
what do you think He meant?”
Before we interpret that verse… what do we know is always true about God?
1-God is Triune
2-God is One in unity
3-God is love
4-God does not contradict Himself
If God is truly one and cannot be divided…
can the Father actually abandon the Son?
The thesis paper is based off of a misunderstanding of Psalm 22:1 So what else is happening in Psalm 22?
Mocking
Piercing
Casting lots
Psalm 22:24 says God has not hidden His face from Him.
Jesus final words were these: Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit. Does that sound like separation—or trust?
Jesus is expressing real suffering on the cross—deep anguish. But that doesn’t mean the Father actually left Him?
The Trinity isn’t broken at the cross—They are working together accomplishing atonement, forgiveness, redemption, salvation etc..... The cross doesn’t show God divided…it shows God united in love to save us.
Have you ever felt like God was distant?
What’s the difference between feeling abandoned and actually being abandoned?
Do you think David is saying God had abandon him in Psalm 22:1 ?
How does this change how you see what Jesus went through?
Even when it feels like God is distant…He is not absent. Just like the Father was with the Son.
Summary to follow.............
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
The Nature of God in the Atonement: Did the Father Forsake the Son?
One of the most discussed and often misunderstood statements in Scripture is Jesus’ cry from the cross: My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?
Many interpret this to mean that the Father turned away from the Son, poured out His wrath upon Him, and temporarily abandoned Him. It is often said that God is too holy to look upon sin, and therefore He could not look upon Christ at that moment.
But is this understanding consistent with the full testimony of Scripture? And more importantly, does it align with the nature of God as revealed in the Bible?
Scripture reveals that God is Triune—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—and that God is in perfect harmony and unity. The persons of the Trinity exist in inseparable communion. God is not divided, does not act against Himself, and does not exist in tension within His own being.
This unity means that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit always act in harmony. There is no conflict, no opposition, and no rupture within God.
Therefore, any understanding of the cross must be consistent with this foundational truth: God is one, and His unity cannot be broken.
Can the Father Be Separated from the Son?
If God is truly one in essence and being, then the idea that the Father abandoned or turned away from the Son raises a serious question:
Can God be divided against Himself?
The doctrine often referred to as perichoresis teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit mutually indwell one another. The Father is never absent from the Son, nor the Son from the Father.
This means that even at the cross, the unity of the Trinity remains intact.
To suggest that the Father poured out wrath on the Son in a way that implies separation introduces a division within the Godhead that Scripture does not support.
Perichoresis
1-The Trinity is inseparable- mutual indwelling of Father, Son, Spirit
2-Therefore, the Father was not actually absent from the Son
3-Jesus’s cry reflects real human experience, without causing a rupture in the divine relationship
The doctrine of perichoresis—the mutual indwelling of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—affirms that the persons of the Trinity exist in inseparable communion. The Father is never absent from the Son, nor the Son from the Father. John 14:10; John 17:21; 2 Corinthians 5:19
Therefore, when Jesus cries, ‘My God, my God, why have You forsaken Me,’ this should not be understood as an actual rupture within the Trinity. Rather, in His humanity, Christ is entering into and expressing the depth of human alienation and suffering under sin.
Interpreting Jesus’ Words in Context
When Jesus cries out, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me,” He is quoting the opening line of Psalm 22:1.
This is important. Psalm 22 is not a statement of despair alone—it is a prophetic Psalm that describes suffering in remarkable detail and ultimately moves toward vindication and trust in God.
Within Psalm 22 we find:
- Mocking and scorn
- Pierced hands and feet
- Casting lots for garments
These details closely parallel the crucifixion accounts in the Gospels.
But just as important is what the Psalm says later:
He has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
nor has He hidden His face from Him;
but when He cried to Him, He heard.” (Psalm 22:24)
This verse explicitly states that God did not hide His face from the afflicted one.
Jesus’ Final Words: Trust, Not Separation
In another Gospel account, Jesus’ final words are: Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” (Luke 23:46)
This statement reflects trust, relationship, and confidence—not abandonment.
If the Father had truly turned away from the Son, these words would be difficult to reconcile. Instead, they affirm that even in His suffering, Jesus entrusts Himself fully to the Father.
What Does “Forsaken” Mean?
If Jesus was not actually abandoned by the Father, then what does His cry mean?The answer lies in understanding the depth of what Christ was experiencing.
Jesus is expressing real human anguish. He is entering fully into the suffering, pain, and weight of the human condition. His words reflect the experience of deep distress and affliction, as expressed in Psalm 22.
However, this does not indicate a literal separation within the Trinity or a withdrawal of the Father’s presence.
Rather we have the language of “forsaken” expresses the depth of Christ’s suffering and His identification with humanity, not an actual abandonment by the Father.
The Cross Reveals Unity, Not Division
The New Testament consistently describes the cross as:- The Father giving the Son
- The Son willingly laying down His life
- A unified work of redemption
Instead, the emphasis is on:
- Love
- Obedience
- Sacrifice
- Reconciliation
This means that at the cross:
- The Father was not absent
- The Son was not isolated
- The Trinity was not divided
Conclusion
Jesus’ cry from the cross is one of the most profound expressions of suffering in all of Scripture. But it must be understood in light of the full counsel of God’s Word and the nature of God Himself.When we do that, we see:
- The Trinity remains united
- The Father does not abandon the Son
- Christ truly experiences human suffering
- The cross reveals God’s love, not division within God
The above is my readers digest version in the hope we may have more discussion about this topic.
hope this helps !!!
TibiasDad
Active Member
civic
Active Member
Thanks brother much appreciated.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Ditto
Grace ambassador
Active Member
The updates and summary are good thank you for this study.
civic
Active Member
Much appreciated thanks !
Darby
Active Member
Yes indeed, a very good study. When Jesus cries out “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” I think in this moment there is the despair of death, but in the words of the Psalm that he references, there is also hope for deliverance. Jesus still has trust in the God of the Universe. He recognized the desperation of humanity that suddenly hung upon his shoulders and even in that agonizing moment, his voice called out to show that only God can deliver us.
He has submitted to God’s will to that very last moment. There is a terrible beauty in this death in that it shows us that God loves us by taking our place on the cross and dying in our stead.
Jesus’ last words are not a pleasant phrase they are full of despair. It was misunderstood by those close by when he said it and today it can be difficult to understand without placing it into its appropriate context of Psalm 22. You cannot leave it by itself. Jesus was calling us to the full Psalm just as he knew that his followers would understand when they figured out what he had said. Yes, that was a moment of ultimate pain and loss as only the burden of sin could cause.
But also, there was still hope in the promise of God’s deliverance and that there would be resurrection on the other side of death. Psalm 22 shows us Jesus’ utter dependence upon God, even when he could not feel anything but the weight of the sin of the world. We are invited to do the same in our lives. To depend on God, trust in his love, and believe that eternal life is offered to us through the sacrifice of Jesus his son.
He has submitted to God’s will to that very last moment. There is a terrible beauty in this death in that it shows us that God loves us by taking our place on the cross and dying in our stead.
Jesus’ last words are not a pleasant phrase they are full of despair. It was misunderstood by those close by when he said it and today it can be difficult to understand without placing it into its appropriate context of Psalm 22. You cannot leave it by itself. Jesus was calling us to the full Psalm just as he knew that his followers would understand when they figured out what he had said. Yes, that was a moment of ultimate pain and loss as only the burden of sin could cause.
But also, there was still hope in the promise of God’s deliverance and that there would be resurrection on the other side of death. Psalm 22 shows us Jesus’ utter dependence upon God, even when he could not feel anything but the weight of the sin of the world. We are invited to do the same in our lives. To depend on God, trust in his love, and believe that eternal life is offered to us through the sacrifice of Jesus his son.
Joe
Active Member
I think the summary is nicely done.
When I read Psalms 22, I get the idea that God gave Him over to those who would deal treacherously with Him. I suggest that God did not forsake our Lord as others espouse but that He abandoned Him to His enemies. The Psalm does not imply God forsook Him as departing from Him for God hears His pleas and we know He answered.
God Bless
civic
Active Member
This is well written article from Got Questions.
Psalm 22 is classified as a “prayer for help” composed by King David. As with many other such prayers in the Psalms (see Psalm 2:1; 10:1; 13:1–2; 52:1; 74:1), it begins with an anguished cry and hopeless complaint, posed as an appeal to God for help: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish? My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, but I find no rest” (Psalm 22:1–2).
David cries out to God for help but feels forsaken and in deep agony because God does not answer him. The double use of questions is a poetic tool that expresses the psalmist’s utter hopelessness and despair. David cannot comprehend why God has abandoned him. He is suffering both physically (Psalm 22:14–15) and socially (verses 6–8). Most disturbing to him is his apparent abandonment by God. David’s lifelong relationship with God appears to be broken.
Yet even in his desolation, David prays, “My God, my God,” acknowledging his faith in God and dependence on Him, despite the Lord’s perceived distance and silence. Later, David declares outright his trust in the Lord: “Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the one Israel praises. In you our ancestors put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them. To you they cried out and were saved; in you they trusted and were not put to shame” (Psalm 22:3–5; see also verses 9–10). David knows that God never forsakes His people (verses 22–24).
Over the centuries, scholars have noted the psalm’s intense tone, raising the possibility that it applied not just to one instance of suffering in David’s life but was meant to encompass all the abuses he suffered under King Saul. While Psalm 22 was undoubtedly a personal petition for help by David, it also served as a congregational prayer during corporate worship of the whole community.
The question, “Why have you forsaken me?” was meant to arouse interest in listeners, who would have wanted to know how the petition was answered. The psalm’s language was designed to give individuals a model for praying in times of extreme suffering and need. Like so many other psalms, it movingly expresses the common emotional experience of people who feel alone and afflicted.
Hundreds of years in the future, Jesus hung on the cross, enduring His most intense moments of torment. He desperately needed His Father’s presence. In a loud voice, the Lord cried out the words that Jews had prayed for centuries, “‘Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?’ (which means ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’)” (Matthew 27:46). After experiencing the most horrific torture and left to die by evil men, Christ recited Psalm 22:1. Joining with the multitude of humans in their affliction, Jesus became one with them in their suffering and cried out to God for help.
Our fully God, fully human Savior identifies with us in every way, even in our weakest moments—even when we feel like God has abandoned us. Through Christ’s total identification with us, He gives us permission by His own example to pour out our hearts to God. Jesus shows us that trusting God means lifting up the very worst of life to God in prayer: “During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission” (Hebrews 5:7).
Likewise, when Jesus cited the opening words of Psalm 22, he employed a tradition of the time that identified the entire passage, like quoting a chapter heading or book title. Jesus’ cry, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” was analogous to a preacher today saying, “Remember the words of Psalm 22.” As Jesus took on Himself the sins of all humankind, He acknowledged feeling abandoned by the Father, yet, like David, He still trusted in God. He knew that He was fulfilling God’s purpose by laying down His life: “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus believed that God would not forsake Him in that endeavor.
“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” With these words, Jesus also beckoned His followers to make the connection and recognize Psalm 22’s prophetic implications. David had seen down through history to vividly portray the Messiah’s crucifixion (see verses 7, 14–18). Thus, in calling attention to the psalm, Jesus showed once again that He Himself was the fulfillment of Old Testament Scripture.
hope this helps !!!
Why does the psalmist ask, “Why have you forsaken me” (Psalm 22:1)?
Psalm 22 is classified as a “prayer for help” composed by King David. As with many other such prayers in the Psalms (see Psalm 2:1; 10:1; 13:1–2; 52:1; 74:1), it begins with an anguished cry and hopeless complaint, posed as an appeal to God for help: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish? My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, but I find no rest” (Psalm 22:1–2).
David cries out to God for help but feels forsaken and in deep agony because God does not answer him. The double use of questions is a poetic tool that expresses the psalmist’s utter hopelessness and despair. David cannot comprehend why God has abandoned him. He is suffering both physically (Psalm 22:14–15) and socially (verses 6–8). Most disturbing to him is his apparent abandonment by God. David’s lifelong relationship with God appears to be broken.
Yet even in his desolation, David prays, “My God, my God,” acknowledging his faith in God and dependence on Him, despite the Lord’s perceived distance and silence. Later, David declares outright his trust in the Lord: “Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the one Israel praises. In you our ancestors put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them. To you they cried out and were saved; in you they trusted and were not put to shame” (Psalm 22:3–5; see also verses 9–10). David knows that God never forsakes His people (verses 22–24).
Over the centuries, scholars have noted the psalm’s intense tone, raising the possibility that it applied not just to one instance of suffering in David’s life but was meant to encompass all the abuses he suffered under King Saul. While Psalm 22 was undoubtedly a personal petition for help by David, it also served as a congregational prayer during corporate worship of the whole community.
The question, “Why have you forsaken me?” was meant to arouse interest in listeners, who would have wanted to know how the petition was answered. The psalm’s language was designed to give individuals a model for praying in times of extreme suffering and need. Like so many other psalms, it movingly expresses the common emotional experience of people who feel alone and afflicted.
Hundreds of years in the future, Jesus hung on the cross, enduring His most intense moments of torment. He desperately needed His Father’s presence. In a loud voice, the Lord cried out the words that Jews had prayed for centuries, “‘Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?’ (which means ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’)” (Matthew 27:46). After experiencing the most horrific torture and left to die by evil men, Christ recited Psalm 22:1. Joining with the multitude of humans in their affliction, Jesus became one with them in their suffering and cried out to God for help.
Our fully God, fully human Savior identifies with us in every way, even in our weakest moments—even when we feel like God has abandoned us. Through Christ’s total identification with us, He gives us permission by His own example to pour out our hearts to God. Jesus shows us that trusting God means lifting up the very worst of life to God in prayer: “During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission” (Hebrews 5:7).
Likewise, when Jesus cited the opening words of Psalm 22, he employed a tradition of the time that identified the entire passage, like quoting a chapter heading or book title. Jesus’ cry, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” was analogous to a preacher today saying, “Remember the words of Psalm 22.” As Jesus took on Himself the sins of all humankind, He acknowledged feeling abandoned by the Father, yet, like David, He still trusted in God. He knew that He was fulfilling God’s purpose by laying down His life: “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus believed that God would not forsake Him in that endeavor.
“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” With these words, Jesus also beckoned His followers to make the connection and recognize Psalm 22’s prophetic implications. David had seen down through history to vividly portray the Messiah’s crucifixion (see verses 7, 14–18). Thus, in calling attention to the psalm, Jesus showed once again that He Himself was the fulfillment of Old Testament Scripture.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
David knew that God would never leave you or forsake you- it was a promise of God.
1 Chronicles 28:20
Then David said to Solomon his son, “Be strong and courageous and do it. Do not be afraid and do not be dismayed, for the LORD God, even my God, is with you. He will not leave you or forsake you, until all the work for the service of the house of the LORD is finished.
Joshua 1:5-9
No one shall stand against you all the days of your life. As I was with Moses, so will I be with you; I will never leave you nor forsake you. / Be strong and courageous, for you shall give these people the inheritance of the land that I swore to their fathers I would give them. / Above all, be strong and very courageous. Be careful to observe all the law that My servant Moses commanded you. Do not turn from it to the right or to the left, so that you may prosper wherever you go. ...
Deuteronomy 31:6-8
Be strong and courageous; do not be afraid or terrified of them, for it is the LORD your God who goes with you; He will never leave you nor forsake you.” / Then Moses called for Joshua and said to him in the presence of all Israel, “Be strong and courageous, for you will go with this people into the land that the LORD swore to their fathers to give them, and you shall give it to them as an inheritance. / The LORD Himself goes before you; He will be with you. He will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid or discouraged.”
1 Kings 8:57
The LORD our God be with us, as he was with our fathers. May he not leave us or forsake us,
Also affirmed in the N.T. below:
Hebrews 13:5-6
Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, for God has said: “Never will I leave you, never will I forsake you.” / So we say with confidence: “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?
1 Chronicles 28:20
Then David said to Solomon his son, “Be strong and courageous and do it. Do not be afraid and do not be dismayed, for the LORD God, even my God, is with you. He will not leave you or forsake you, until all the work for the service of the house of the LORD is finished.
Joshua 1:5-9
No one shall stand against you all the days of your life. As I was with Moses, so will I be with you; I will never leave you nor forsake you. / Be strong and courageous, for you shall give these people the inheritance of the land that I swore to their fathers I would give them. / Above all, be strong and very courageous. Be careful to observe all the law that My servant Moses commanded you. Do not turn from it to the right or to the left, so that you may prosper wherever you go. ...
Deuteronomy 31:6-8
Be strong and courageous; do not be afraid or terrified of them, for it is the LORD your God who goes with you; He will never leave you nor forsake you.” / Then Moses called for Joshua and said to him in the presence of all Israel, “Be strong and courageous, for you will go with this people into the land that the LORD swore to their fathers to give them, and you shall give it to them as an inheritance. / The LORD Himself goes before you; He will be with you. He will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid or discouraged.”
1 Kings 8:57
The LORD our God be with us, as he was with our fathers. May he not leave us or forsake us,
Also affirmed in the N.T. below:
Hebrews 13:5-6
Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, for God has said: “Never will I leave you, never will I forsake you.” / So we say with confidence: “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?
civic
Active Member
I have added this which any trinitarian must wrestle with if they really think Jesus was actually forsaken and the Father abandon the Son on the cross.
Perichoresis
1-The Trinity is inseparable- mutual indwelling of Father, Son, Spirit.
a)The Son is not alone (John 8:29, 16:32).
b)The mutual indwelling is inseparable (John 10:38 John 14:10–11 John 17:21).
2-Therefore, the Father was not actually absent from the Son
3-Jesus’s cry reflects real human experience, without causing a rupture in the divine relationship
The doctrine of perichoresis—the mutual indwelling of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—affirms that the persons of the Trinity exist in inseparable communion. The Father is never absent from the Son, nor the Son from the Father. John 14:10; John 17:21; 2 Corinthians 5:19
Therefore, when Jesus cries, ‘My God, my God, why have You forsaken Me,’ this should not be understood as an actual rupture within the Trinity. Rather, in His humanity, Christ is entering into and expressing the depth of human alienation and suffering under sin.
While He truly experiences the weight of that condition, the unity of the divine nature remains unbroken. There is no division within God, even at the cross. Jesus’s cry also echoes Psalm 22, which moves from lament to vindication, reinforcing that this is not abandonment in essence, but the expression of suffering that leads to deliverance.
The Unity of the Trinity at the Cross and the cry: why has thou forsaken me
A central concern with Penal Substitutionary Atonement is the implication that the Father pours out His wrath upon the Son, resulting in a form of separation within the Godhead. However, the historic doctrine of the Trinity does not allow for such a division.
The doctrine of perichoresis—the mutual indwelling of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—teaches that the persons of the Trinity exist in perfect, inseparable communion. The Father is never absent from the Son, nor the Son from the Father. This unity is not merely relational but essential to the very being of God. Therefore, any view of the atonement must preserve the truth that God is not divided against Himself.
Jesus’s cry on the cross—“My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”—must be understood in light of both His full humanity and the unity of the Trinity.
This cry is a direct quotation of Psalm 22, a passage that begins in lament but ends in vindication, affirming that God has not hidden His face from the afflicted one. Therefore, Christ’s words should not be interpreted as evidence of an actual rupture within the Trinity, but as the expression of genuine human suffering and identification with fallen humanity.
In His humanity, Christ fully enters into the depth of human anguish, bearing the weight and consequences of sin. He experiences the reality of human alienation and suffering under sin’s curse. Yet this experience does not entail a break in the divine nature or a separation between the Father and the Son.
To suggest that the Father turned away from or stood in opposition to the Son in wrath introduces a division within the Godhead that is inconsistent with the unity of God revealed in Scripture.
While Scripture affirms that Christ bore our sins and gave Himself for us, it does not require the conclusion that the Father ceased to be present with the Son or that the Trinity was fractured at the cross.
Rather, the atonement should be understood as a unified act of the triune God:
The Father sends the Son
The Son offers Himself willingly
The Spirit sustains and empowers
All three Persons act in perfect unity to accomplish redemption.
The cross is not a moment of divine conflict, but the greatest revelation of divine love and unity. As Scripture declares, “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself” (2 Corinthians 5:19).
This means that at the very moment of the crucifixion:
The Father was not absent
The Son was not isolated
The Spirit was not uninvolved
Instead, our Triune God was fully present, working together to accomplish salvation.
Christ truly experienced the depth of human suffering and the weight of sin. His cry of dereliction reflects the reality of that experience. However, this must not be understood as a literal separation within the Trinity.
The unity of the divine nature remained unbroken. There was no division within God, no opposition between the Father and the Son, and no rupture in the eternal communion of the Trinity.
The atonement, therefore, is best understood not as the Father pouring out wrath on the Son, but as the unified work of the triune God acting in love to redeem humanity.
hope this helps !!!
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