White vs Flowers debate recap with Greek Scholar
- Thread starter civic
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John 6:45 (KJV 1900) — 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all (Pantes) taught of God. Every (Pas)man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
it is irrelevant to the issue of unconditional election whether Pantes equals the Pas
also dr white kept leaving out the learned equating the taught simply with those who heard
leaving out the learning
1. lit., through instruction, abs. 1 Cor 14:31; 1 Ti 2:11; 2 Ti 3:7. παρά τινος learn from someone as teacher (X., Cyr. 2, 2, 6; Appian, Iber. 23 §89 παρὰ τοῦ θεοῦ μ.; Sextus 353 μ. παρὰ θεοῦ; Philo, Deus Imm. 4) vs. 14b; be someone’s disciple (μαθητής) Epil Mosq 1. ἀπό τινος from someone (Theognis 1, 28f: Theognis teaches what ‘I myself as a παῖς ἔμαθον ἀπὸ τῶν ἀγαθῶν’; 1, 35; Jos., Ant. 8, 317)Mt 11:29; Col 1:7. W. acc. of the thing learned τὶ someth. 1 Cor 14:35. πάντα Hs 9, 1, 3. Teaching Ro 16:17. τὴν θεοσέβειαν τ. Χριστιανῶν Dg 1; cf. 11:2. τὰ δικαιώματα τ. κυρίου the ordinances of the Lord B 21:1. τὸν Χριστόν=Christian teaching Eph 4:20 (Chio, Ep. 16, 8 θεὸν ἔμαθες=you have learned to know God). W. attraction of a relative μένε ἐν οἷς (=ἐν τούτοις ἃ) ἔμαθες stand by what you have learned 2 Ti 3:14a. W. obj. to be supplied fr. the context (γράμματα) J 7:15 (Gdspd., Probs. 102-4). μ. τι ἀπό τινος learn someth. from someone B 9:9. μ. περὶ πάντων receive instruction concerning all things vs. 7 (περί τινος as Philo, Spec. Leg. 1, 42). μ. τι ἔν τινι learn fr. someone’s example 1 Cor 4:6 (Bl-D. §220, 2; Rob. 587).—μ. τι ἀπό τινος learn someth. fr. someth.: ἀπὸ τ. συκῆς μάθετε τ. παραβολήν Mt 24:32; Mk 13:28.—W. ὅτι foll. (Philo, Leg. All. 3, 51) B 9:8. W. inf. foll. (Aristoxenus, fgm. 96 αὐλεῖν) 1 Cl 8:4 (Is 1:17); 57:2. W. indirect question foll. 1 Cl 21:8. τί ἐστιν what this means Mt 9:13. W. the question preceding B 5:5; 6:9; 14:4; 16:2, 7; Dg 4:6. Used w. other verbs: ἀκούειν κ. μ. (Pla., Ap. 33B, Ep. p. 344D; Theocr. 5, 39; Ael. Aristid. 45 p. 33 D. p. 40; cf. Polyb. 3, 32, 9 ὅσῳ διαφέρει τὸ μαθεῖν τοῦ μόνον ἀκούειν, τοσούτῳ. . . ) J 6:45
William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 490.
Polyb. 3, 32, 9 ὅσῳ διαφέρει τὸ μαθεῖν τοῦ μόνον ἀκούειν, τοσούτῳ. . . ) J 6:45
Polyb. 3, 32, 9 to whom it differs from learning only by hearing, so much so. . . ) J 6:45
civic
Well-known member
Yes learning is active not passive as he falsely claimed.
Dr white just read his theology of total inability into the passage.
civic
Well-known member
yes the entire chapter and also reads regeneration into draw/helko. Another blunder.
Yet he denied it during debate
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