What is the Gospel

[Studyman]

Now i dont agree with @Studyman at all in his soteriogly, but I believe though Adam was created innocent and upright, nevertheless he was still mutable flesh at His highest estate and would eventually fall from the high standard of Gods Holy Law which is Spiritual and he was carnal flesh just untried. Rom 7:14

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Was Adam Spiritual at Creation ? I dont believe so.. Was He natural and carnal ? Yes I believe so, but innocent

What does it mean for a mortal human being to be "Spiritual", or as Paul teaches, "walk in the Spirit"? If the Perfect and most powerful Spirit in existence, my God, tells you not to eat something, and you deny your own hunger, your own desire to eat it, your own reasoning why it should be eaten in every circumstance God places you in, and "Don't eat it", are you not walking in the Spirit and not the flesh?

Remember, a little leaven leavens the whole lump. If I am convinced by other voices in the world God placed me in, that God gives men commandments, but withholds from men the capacity to obey Him, that foundation will influence my every thought. Every Scripture I read will be understood through the prism that God gave Adam and Eve a Law, but withheld from them the capacity to obey because they were created with a "sin nature", or as you say "carnal".

This is the difference between your understanding and mine. I too, believe Adam was created a perfect mortal human being, innocent and upright, with the free will ability to choose God or deny God. They were not created "corrupted", but they were created "corruptible". God didn't "force" them to reject Him or choose Him. He created the circumstance they found themselves in, but HE allowed them to make their own choices. Isn't that the whole point, so that we can learn obedience and walk even as Jesus walked?

Didn't Jesus Blood also provide for their forgiveness, and didn't the Spirit of Christ use their mistake to teach us to Love and honor and "Yield ourselves" to God "lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ".

Let me ask you a question, and we will see if you answer. When Adam and Eve made the wrong choice, did God destroy them, or Chastise them?

How is it any different for you and I?

 

[brightfame52]

you posted these select scriptures, is to promote total depravity

Because scripture promotes total depravity

 

[brightfame52]

Actually no, that isn't true at all.

Yes it is, in fact thats why God has varied contexts so that spiritual things can be compared to spiritual things and be spiritually appraised 1 Cor 2:13-14

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

To say things like that is all you can do when scripture is shown you and you dont like what it says. What you want a person to do to prove their point with scripture, post newspaper clippings ?

 

[brightfame52]

So you think if there was no serpent, devil, satan he still would of sinned, is that your position ?

Huh ? Talking about coming out of left field, man I dont know what you talking about .

 

[brightfame52]

What does it mean for a mortal human being to be "Spiritual",

To be spiritual is when man is regenerated.

 

[Red Baker]

@civic

So you think if there was no serpent, devil, satan he still would of sinned, is that your position ?

Of course man would have.

Angels were created a little higher than man, with more glory and honour, yet many of them left their own estate when God did not restrain them by preserving them. Why did many of them sin?

Our children are not different than world's children, yet the world's children just helps the sin our our members to come out a little faster. Truth and proper training helps to restrain sin in the member of our children, yet allow them to run with the children of this world and it will bring it out a little faster, and even some case even worse than those who never have heard any truth.

Why do angels and men sin? Because they are mutable and can be tempted to sin when left to themselves.

 

[civic]

@civic

Of course man would have.

Angels were created a little higher than man, with more glory and honour, yet many of them left their own estate when God did not restrain them by preserving them. Why did many of them sin?

Our children are not different than world's children, yet the world's children just helps the sin our our members to come out a little faster. Truth and proper training helps to restrain sin in the member of our children, yet allow them to run with the children of this world and it will bring it out a little faster, and even some case even worse than those who never have heard any truth.

Why do angels and men sin? Because they are mutable and can be tempted to sin when left to themselves.

Jesus was a man did He sin ?

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

Jim said, "Elect according to what God knew beforehand about the person." which is Biblically True. But Calvinists promote that "EVERYONE" is totally depraved, and they carefully select Paul's words in Rom. 3:9-19 to promote their philosophy.

Again, as I said above and many times over ~ God had an election of grace, because he who knows the end from the beginning, knew that if he did not, then not one soul, not even @Studyman (I know you find that hard to believe) would have ever been born again.

@Studyman, let me ask you a question, since I just answered one for you: "Why was it imperative for Christ to come as a substitute for his people, to live and die, and resurrect again from the grave?"

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman

Actually, he was not cherry picking ~ Romans 3:9-19 is the sum of all that is in the word of God concerning fallen humanity. So much so, that even David mentioned the same points in Psalms 14 and 53, search and see for yourself. If God chose to say the same thing three different places, then it is very important for us to consider the teaching thereof.

Actually Red, because you are only here to justify and promote one of many religions that exist in this world God placed us in, and therefore, have not actually studied the Psalms Paul quoted, you don't know that Paul quoted Psalms 5 and 14/53, as 14/53 are nearly identical. If you were interested in seeking God's Truth, you would know this. But because you are merely a pawn snared by the prince of this world to promote it's philosophies, you don't know.

But you are right in that it's very important to study the Scriptures and consider what they actually say. Not cherry pick them to justify yourself or a popular philosophy, but actually consider the Word's Inspired by God.

I am happy to post these scriptures for you, and examine them in search of God's Truth, since clearly you have not studied them or even know what Psalms Paul quoted.

Psalms 5: 1 (To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David.) Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation. 2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray. 3 My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up. 4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: "thou hatest all workers of iniquity". 6 Thou shalt destroy "them" that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man. 7 But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple. 8 Lead me, O LORD, in "thy" righteousness "because of mine enemies", make thy way straight before my face.

9 For there is no faithfulness in "their" mouth; "their" inward part is very wickedness; "their" throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.

10 Destroy thou "them", O God; let them fall "by their own" counsels; cast "them" out in the multitude of their transgressions; for "they" have rebelled against thee.

11 But let all those that put their trust "in thee" rejoice: let "them" ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee. 12 For thou, LORD, wilt bless "the righteous"; with favour wilt thou compass him as with a shield.

So, while there are certainly "many" who are the enemies of God's People, that is, "those that put their trust in Him and "Doeth Righteousness", David is certainly not promoting you religion here Red.

So lets go to Psalms 14 and consider the message from the Spirit of Christ in these Holy Scriptures.

Ps. 14: 1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. "They" are corrupt, "they" have done abominable works, there is none "that doeth good". 2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 "They" are all gone aside, "they" are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

4 Have all "the workers of iniquity" no knowledge? "who eat up my people" as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD. 5 There were they in great fear: for God "is in" the generation "of the righteous". 6 Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because "the LORD" is his refuge.

So the Spirit of Christ in David is truly saying the same thing here. There are those who reject God's Judgments, God's Statutes and the way of the Lord, (workers of iniquity) they falsely accuse those whose refuge is the Lord, accusing them of trying to "earn salvation" by "Yielding themselves to God" and submitting themselves to the Righteousness of God, and they discourage, demean, ridicule and mock those "who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,".

Truly, there is no truth in them. "They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

Now lets see what Paul actually wrote when a man considers all of his words.

Rom. 3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that "unto them" were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some "did not believe"? shall "their" unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: (That means NO Red) yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Your judgments against God are wickedness Red, and they will not stand.

5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? 7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

Whose damnation is Just Red? Those who falsely accuse Paul? Or the falsely accused?

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that "they" are all under sin;

Can Paul also reject the Oracles of God, create his own righteousness, and be accepted by God? NO!

Who are the "They" Red? You and the prince of this world preach that the "THEY" Paul speaks to is "All of Humanity", (your own words) that Paul and the Pharisees are the same, all under sin. That "There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

But that is an insidious falsehood according to the Spirit of Christ is David. There is a generation of the righteous, and God is in them. Paul explains this in terms even a little child could understand when he "Before Proved" that "THEY", the "Workers of Iniquity", both Jew and Gentile, "are all under sin", in Rom. 2: 1-11. You can go there and see for yourself what Paul said about the choices men make, and the consequences of their choices..

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus was a man did He sin ?

He isnt mutable, He is immutable Heb 13:8

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

I notice you like to compare men with Jesus Christ a lot.

 

[civic]

He isnt mutable, He is immutable Heb 13:8

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

I notice you like to compare men with Jesus Christ a lot.

So His flesh was not the same as ours ?

 

[brightfame52]

So His flesh was not the same as ours ?

Yes, but His nature wasnt.

 

[Red Baker]

@civic

Jesus was a man did He sin ?

Never in thought, word, or deed.

Christ was the Lord from heaven who came forth from the bosom of God, he was not created!

John 1:18​

“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

 

[civic]

Yes, but His nature wasnt.

You contradicted yourself

 

[civic]

@civic

Never in thought, word, or deed.

Christ was the Lord from heaven who came forth from the bosom of God, he was not created!

John 1:18​

“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

So His flesh was not the same as ours is that your position

 

[Studyman]

Because scripture promotes total depravity

So I made nothing up out of left field. You cherry picked these scriptures to promote your adopted religious philosophy. Everyone knows it. But when a person considers all of Paul's and the Spirit of Christ through David's words, your man-made philosophy falls apart.

 

[brightfame52]

You contradicted yourself

How

 

[brightfame52]

So I made nothing up out of left field.

Yeah you did.

 

[Studyman]

To be spiritual is when man is regenerated.

The Spirit of Christ in Peter teaches the opposite.

Acts 5; 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, "whom God hath given" to them that obey him.

 

[Administrator]

Then you have the Gnostic Gospels, "Danger, Will Robinson!"

The Gnostic Gospels are a collection of ancient religious writings discovered in 1945 near Nag Hammadi, Egypt, known as the Nag Hammadi Library. These texts, written primarily in Coptic, include 52 treatises, some of which are gospels, while others are philosophical or mystical works. Unlike the New Testament Gospels, which focus on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, the Gnostic Gospels emphasize secret teachings, mystical knowledge, and personal spiritual enlightenment.
Among the most prominent Gnostic Gospels are:\
Gospel of Thomas: A collection of 114 sayings attributed to Jesus, focusing on self-knowledge and direct experience of the divine rather than narrative events.
Gospel of Philip: Highlights the importance of spiritual knowledge, sacraments, and the contrast between the material and spiritual worlds.
Gospel of Mary (Magdalene): Portrays Mary Magdalene as a leading disciple, emphasizing visions and inner spiritual knowledge, and includes debates with Peter about authority.
orance to achieve salvation.

Theological​

Gnosticism, from the Greek word gnosis meaning “knowledge,” was a diverse spiritual movement that flourished from the first to fourth centuries AD. Gnostics believed that the material world was created by a lesser, ignorant deity and that humans are spiritual beings trapped in physical bodies. Salvation was achieved through esoteric knowledge rather than faith in Jesus’ death and resurrection. This perspective often conflicted with orthodox Christian teachings, leading early church leaders to reject these texts as heretical.

Historical​

The discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library revolutionized the study of early Christianity, revealing alternative interpretations of Jesus’ teachings and the diversity of early Christian thought. Many of these texts were previously unknown or only partially preserved in fragments, such as the Gospel of Thomas, which contains sayings not found in the New Testament. Scholars continue to study these writings to understand the development of Christian theology and the role of Gnostic ideas in early religious communities.

Summary​

The Gnostic Gospels provide a unique window into early Christian diversity, emphasizing personal spiritual knowledge, inner enlightenment, and alternative views of Jesus’ teachings. While excluded from the canonical Bible due to theological differences, they remain a vital resource for understanding the complexity of early Christian thought and the historical context of Gnosticism.