What is the Gospel

@Jim
Jim said:
Not true. Once again. you are reading it all wrong. It is the believer who is given the privilege, the power, the right to become a child of God. John 1:12-13.
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No Jim, I'm following John's words very carefully, by following flow of John's words. Read again my words.
Red Baker said:
@Jim @ Studyman,

To me, these wonderful scriptures are almost self explanatory, at least one would think so, until you ask ten different folks to give their understanding, and then you would know otherwises, that God must open eyes before one can see something that seemly is so clear, that it would be hard not to see what the Spirit is saying to us.

1) Jesus came unto the world, a world created by him, yet the world, Jews and Gentiles knew him not.

2) Jesus came unto his own people, the Jews, yet they too received him not, even though never a man spake as he spake, not to mention, all the miracles and wonderful works he did before them, yet they received him not, but sought to kill him, which they eventually did. He only lasted around three and a half years teaching them, but that was three and half years too long fo them.

3) Verse 12 is very important and we should consider verse 12 very carefully: John will tell us that those that did received him, the power to do so was given to them! Listen carefully: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to" ...... become the sons of God! I broke it down very carefully so one can see what the Spirit is saying to us. But, to add more to this, verse 13 is God's commentary to us concerning 10-12!

4) "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Which were born..........Not of blood.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with natural descent, pedigree, etc. The Jews especially had this problem, for they trusted in Abraham (Luke 3:8). Paul declared Abraham’s children are not the children of God (Romans 9:6-8). We are the seed of Abraham, for we are Christ’s, his true Seed (Galatians 3:16,29).

Nor of the will of the flesh.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with your natural will or choice. This phrase you and Studman and all the decisional regeneration heresy of Arminian. Prior to being born again, all you have is a flesh nature that is denied here. (Romans 7:18) Not only is the will of the flesh denied, but it is impossible for it to so will. A man in the flesh cannot and will not please God; he is a depraved rebel. God’s compassion and mercy are by His own will, not man’s (Rom 9:15-16). If you ever will good to God, it is He that worked it in you (Phil 2:12-13). Only God’s will is active (John 3:8; 5:21; Eph 1:5; Jas 1:18; Heb 10:9-10). The will of the flesh is all you have before regeneration – the sinful you. Therefore, this phrase denies any choice or act of will before regeneration! Until you are born again, this is the only will you have – that of the flesh. Paul denied that anything you do in the flesh can please God (Rom 8:7-8).

Nor of the will of man.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with the will of anyone outside you. There is nothing a parent can do to assist or cooperate for salvation (Ps 49:6-9). No other man has any influence on you being born again, except for One Man! The work of salvation is all found in one man’s obedience (Rom 5:12-19). There is no place for parents, pastors, priests, or soul winners for eternal life. In Him was life! He is the Life! He is resurrection and life! He has the keys!

But of God.

Becoming God’s son by being born again is His monergistic, sovereign work. John called it being born again from Jesus (John 3:1-8; I John 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-5,18). James and Peter also refer to it as a birth or begetting (James 1:18; Ist Peter 1:3,23). Paul used quickening (Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 2:13), regeneration, renewing (Tit 3:5). This creative work by God’s power gives each elect person a new spiritual man. We are God’s workmanship, created in Christ unto good works (Eph 2:10) This work by God Himself is compared to wind blowing by Jesus (John 3:8). This is the work of Christ Jesus raising dead souls to spiritual life (John 5:25). It is called a quickening of man from his natural state of spiritual death.
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Use scriptures to prove me wrong.
 
God is a transcendent Creator. This means he creates without limit or opposition. His knowledge is without end and His presence is infinite. Would you trust a God like that to come up with a plan to rescue you? Or would you rather concoct your own salvation plan based on your ability to create, your ability to know, and your finite status? Are you feeling pretty small? Yup, “the world doesn’t revolve around you.”

This is the Gospel: God, limitless in authority and power was determined to provide an adequate solution to the disastrous pain of sin. The separation that sin has caused between humanity and God needed resolve. Jesus came to be the perfect and full payment for sin. We can enter back into harmonious relationship with God through faith in Jesus and true repentance.
 
Red Baker said:
@Studyman

That's the main problem with your teachings, and others like you. God has indeed described how he put this world into motion by creating all things for his own pleasure.
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Yes. God created everything, Eden, His garden, Adam and Eve. He placed a perfect deceiver in the garden with them, as HE has done for all mortal, corruptible humans, like Adam and Eve. And HE gave them free will to choose between the Word of God (life) and the voices in the world HE placed them in. (death) The lie you promote, is that they were created "incorruptible" while you were created "corrupted, depraved", and yet you both reject God's Word even for something as simple as a Father instructing His Children, what is food and what is not food.

The great evil deception promoted by the prince of this world, is that Eve "Chose of her own free will" to disobey God, but you were created by God to disobey Him. So Eve was responsible for her own sins, but God is responsible for your sins. The Bible doesn't teach any such thing, unless a person cherry picks scripture, separates them from the rest of the Bible, then creates doctrine from them that can not stand if all of God's word was considered..

Paul warned both Jew and Gentile to take care not to make the same choices Eve made, "as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds "should be corrupted" from the simplicity that is in Christ."

All men, including Adam and Eve, are created "corruptible", not corrupted.

I asked you a question once, but as is your custom, you refused to answer. I'll ask again.

What did God do to Adam and Eve after they made the wrong choice? Did HE destroy them, or did HE chastise them?
 
civic said:
Nope
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Sure they are. They sinned in a person Adam who had more sense and understanding than me and you and Einstein put together, Adam was the perfect natural representative, and all his seed in him disobeyed God when he did with full understanding and accountability. Thats how they understood and turned away from their creator. Thats why babies die !
 
Clay said:
We can enter back into harmonious relationship with God through faith in Jesus and true repentance.
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were not them Christ died for reconciled to God by His death for them, even whie they were enemies ? According to Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciled here is aorist tense passive voice indicative, the word means:

  1. to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
    1. to reconcile (those who are at variance)
    2. return to favour with, be reconciled to one
    3. to receive one into favour

This occured prior to faith and while enemies. were Enemies is in the present tense
 
brightfame52 said:
Sure they are. They sinned in a person Adam who had more sense and understanding than me and you and Einstein put together, Adam was the perfect natural representative, and all his seed in him disobeyed God when he did with full understanding and accountability. Thats how they understood and turned away from their creator. Thats why babies die !
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no one can be a sinner until they commit a sin. Bible 101.

Even your favorite theologian Gill agrees with me. :)

Even the calvinst Gill agree's from Jer 2:34- they are INNOCENT not guilty of sin,

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents,.... Either of the innocent infants of poor persons, who were sacrificed to Moloch; or of the poor prophets of the Lord, whom they slew,

and here from Jeremiah

Jeremiah 19:2 and go out to the Valley of the Son of Hinnom at the entry of the Potsherd Gate, and proclaim there the words that I tell you…4 Because the people have forsaken me and have profaned this place by making offerings in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with THE BLOOD OF INNOCENTS…6 therefore, behold, days are coming, declares the Lord, when this place shall no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter.

God judged them by having the Babylonians doing to them what they did to their children. The Jews Slaughtering their innocent children and God had them slaughtered by the Babylonians.

Psalm 106:34 They (the Israelites) did not destroy the peoples (the Canaanites), as the Lord commanded them, 35 but they mixed with the nations and learned to do as they did. 36 They served their idols, which became a snare to them. 37 They SACRIFICED THEIR SONS AND THEIR DAUGHTERS TO THE DEMONS; 38 they poured out INNOCENT BLOOD, THE BLOOD OF THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was polluted with blood.

conclusion: how many time does God/Jesus have to say children are INNOCENT not guilty before you will believe ?

Jesus affirms the above in the N.T. Woe to those who cause any little ones to stumble.

And more scripture from Jesus

Matthew 18:2-5
And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven

Matthew 18:10
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 18:14
So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.

Matthew 19:13-14
Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.

Mark 9:36-37
Taking a child, He set him before them, and taking him in His arms, He said to them, “Whoever receives one child like this in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me does not receive Me, but Him who sent Me.”

Mark 10:13-16
And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, “Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.

Luke 9:47-48
But Jesus, knowing what they were thinking in their heart, took a child and stood him by His side, and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great.”

Luke 18:15-17
And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, “Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”

conclusion :There is no transmission of a fallen nature, a sin nature that originated with augustine. Lets see what God declares about sin.

Ezekiel 18:4
For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die

Ezekiel 18:20
“The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son.”

Deuteronomy 24:16
Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

2 Kings 14:6
Yet he did not put the sons of the murderers to death, but acted according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, where the LORD commanded: "Fathers must not be put to death for their children, and children must not be put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin."

Jeremiah 31:30
Instead, each will die for his own iniquity. If anyone eats the sour grapes, his own teeth will be set on edge.

And we have the wisdom of Job below who knew had he died as a child he would be at peace with the Lord as an innocent and not condemned in hell as guilty as some falsely teach/believe. Job knew there was no torment and suffering if he had died as a child.

Job 3:11 “Why did I not die at birth, come out from the womb and expire?…13 For then I would have lain DOWN AND BEEN QUIET; I WOULD HAVE SLEPT; THEN I WOULD HAVE BEEN AT REST.

The Bible is in one accord on the innocence of children and that there is no guilt of sin.


hope this helps !!!
 
Red Baker said:
Jim, until one is born of God, whatever a man does, is for self, not for God, even though they may profess to be doing God a service, yet in truth it is against God, thereby not true love in the true biblical sense of what true love is.
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Yes its just the flesh trying to please God, which is nothing but dead works religion, because it proceeds from the spiritually dead.

Rom 8:5

5 For they that are after the flesh[unregenerate] do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Even good honest religion and morality from the unregenerate in the flesh, is still nothing more than minding the things of the flesh.
 
civic said:
No see Gill in my last post who corrected you
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I doubled checked Gill because I was sure he believed in the federal headship of adam and how it affected even infants:

Wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world,.... The design of these words, and of the following, is to show how men came to be in the condition before described, as "ungodly", Romans 5:6, "sinners", Romans 5:8, and "enemies", Romans 5:10; and to express the love of Christ in the redemption of them; and the largeness of God's grace to all sorts of men: the connection of them is with Romans 5:11, by which it appears that the saints have not only an expiation of sin by the blood of Christ, but a perfect righteousness, by which they are justified in the sight of God; and the manner how they came at it, or this becomes theirs, together with the necessity of their having such an one, are here declared: by the "one man" is meant Adam the first man, and parent of mankind, who is mentioned by name in Romans 5:14; sin which came by him designs a single sin, and not many, even the first sin of Adam, which goes by different names, as "sin" here, "transgression", Romans 5:14, the "offence" or "fall", Romans 5:15, "disobedience", Romans 5:19, and whatever was the first step or motive to it, which led to it, whether pride, unbelief, or concupiscence, it was finished by eating the forbidden fruit; and is called sin emphatically, because it contained all sin in it, was attended with aggravating circumstances, and followed with dismal consequences. Hence may be learnt the origin of moral evil among men, which comes not from God, but man; of this it is said, that it "entered into the world"; not the world above, there sin entered by the devil; but the world below, and it first entered into paradise, and then passed through the whole world; it entered into men by the snares of Satan, and by him it enters into all the inhabitants of the world; into all men that descend from him by ordinary generation, and that so powerfully that there is no stopping of it. It has entered by him, not by imitation, for it has entered into such as never sinned after the similitude of his transgression, infants, or otherwise death could not have entered into them, and into such who never heard of it, as the Heathens; besides, sin entered as death did, which was not by imitation but imputation, for all men are reckoned dead in Adam, being accounted sinners in him; add to this, that in the same way Christ's righteousness comes upon us, which is by imputation, Adam's sin enters into us, or becomes ours; upon which death follows,
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So it made no sense for you to bring up Gill in your defense, i agree with him lol
 
This is the Gospel: God, limitless in authority and power was determined to provide an adequate solution to the disastrous pain of sin. The separation that sin has caused between humanity and God needed resolve. Jesus came to be the perfect and full payment for sin. We can enter back into harmonious relationship with God through faith in Jesus and true repentance.
 
The Gospel will be believed by them only that it was ordained for them to believe 1 Cor 2:7-12

7 But we speak the wisdom of God[Christ] in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
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The things that are freely given to the elect are things of Christ and all things given with Him Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Things freely given in 1 Cor 2:12 and freely give in Rom 8:32 are the same greek word charizomai :
to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify
  1. to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent
  2. to grant forgiveness, to pardon
  3. to give graciously, give freely, bestow
    1. to forgive
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He regenerates us to be able to spiritually know these things announced in the Gospel
 

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