What is the Gospel

[Clay]

The Gospel of Christ:

Christ Bore Our Sin. On the cross, our sins were imputed to Christ. That means God placed our sins on Christ’s account and considered them His. Consequently, Christ was declared guilty before the judgment throne of God and was treated as the guilty party.

All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:6

For God has made Christ who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21

 

[Studyman]

Which is this Rom 3:9-19

Again, you guys cherry pick Scripture, separate it from the entire rest of the Bible, then twist it to promote the teaching of someone who "Transformed themselves into Apostles of Christ".

But for those "doing Truth", they examine Paul's entire message, not just the parts they can use to justify a religion that existed in the world God placed us in, that you have adopted. Here, let me show you what I mean.

7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? "whose damnation is just".

Whose damnation is Just? Is it not those Jews who were given the Oracles of God, but refused to believe them? Are they not the ones who were lying about Paul, slanderously accused PAUL of things he didn't do, "Whose Damnation is just"?

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Paul isn't saying that he, and the Body of Christ is still under sin, read it for yourself. But that is what "Many", who come in Christ's Name are preaching to others. Is Paul better than the Pharisees, in that if he engages in the same behavior as they, will he not also be condemned by Christ, as they were condemned?

But don't listen to me, listen to Paul who told you that he has already "before proved" that they, "Whose damnation is Just" are still under sin. Wouldn't a person seeking God's Truth want to find where Paul already "before proved" these things? Well I did, and I have found exactly where Paul "Before Proved" that men who engage in the behavior of the mainstream preachers of His Time, are still under sin.

Rom. 2: 1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2 But we are sure "that the judgment of God is according to truth" against "them" which commit such things.

Therefore, as Paul teaches in Rom. 3, their Damnation is Just. And is Paul better than them, in that if he chooses to "Commit such things", he too "Condemns himself"? Or are you one of those preachers who promote that you can "commit such things" and get away with it "BECAUSE" you call Jesus Lord, Lord?

Let's continue examining where Paul "Before Proved" that men who engage in a certain behavior, are still under sin.

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Paul didn't think if he engaged in that behavior, that he would escape God's Judgment, as he said, he is no better than they, and God is no respecter of persons.

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up "unto thyself" wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":

So Paul just told you that God judges him by the same exact judgment HE judges the Pharisees by.

7 To them "who by patient continuance" in well doing "seek for" glory and honour and immortality, "eternal life":

8 But unto them that are contentious, "and do not obey the truth", but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man "that doeth evil", of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man "that worketh good", to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons "with God".

So like David said in Psalms 5 and 14, and Paul quoted to make his point, these "workers of iniquity", that Christ said through David, "who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD". Who Paul said was given the Oracles of God, but didn't believe them, and were telling lies about the Apostles;

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

The father of lies has been promoting through this world's religions, that David and Paul were talking about both the Church of God, and the "workers of iniquity" when he said, "Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways:" That there is no difference between the Faithful and the children of the devil.

Falsely preaching that when Paul said, "Are we better the they", he was saying that they engaged in the same behavior as the children of the devil, and this to promote a wicked philosophy of "totally depraved". But when a person actually reads what Paul is saying, and considers all of his teaching, he isn't teaching that at all. People who engage in one behavior, receive God's Grace. Not by walking in their own works, but by walking in the "good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.". Paul called this, "Walking in the Spirit". People who engage in the other behavior, doesn't receive God's Grace, because they reject God's instruction and walk instead in their own religion, with their own judgments, their own righteousness and their own high days. Paul calls this "walking in the flesh". It's right there where Paul "Before proved that "THEY", not "WE" (Body of Christ) are still under sin. All you need is belief.

For those reading along, can you not see this? This is just one of many examples of the teaching and philosophies of this world that the Bible, including Jesus and Paul warn about over and over and over.

Do the study yourself, seeking God's Truth from the heart, not seeking justification of an adopted religious philosophy.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, you guys cherry pick Scripture, separate it from the entire rest of the Bible,

Its called showing scripture to verify the truth of what is stated. Its really exegesis, drawing out of the context what is clearly stated. The opposers only defense is to claim its cherry picking

 

[brightfame52]

Paul isn't saying that he, and the Body of Christ is still under sin,

Who said that ? You just came out of left field with this statement because you dont know what else to do

 

[brightfame52]

This is the Gospel: God, limitless in authority and power was determined to provide an adequate solution to the disastrous pain of sin. The separation that sin has caused between humanity and God needed resolve. Jesus came to be the perfect and full payment for sin. We can enter back into harmonious relationship with God through faith in Jesus and true repentance.

This is not the Gospel, for Jesus did more than just provide a solution, He saved sinners from their sins as stated He would do Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Lk 19:10,8-9

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

He saved the lost like He saved Zacchaeus

5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

All men, including Adam and Eve, are created "corruptible", not corrupted.

Man's corruption begun when sin entered into the world through Adam's disobedience.

Romans 5:12​

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

Any man that teaches that God created Adam corruptible is teaching a heresy. God gave Adam "a pure nature, with no indwelling sin," he did not have a body of sin and death, that came as the result of Adam's disobedience. Adam came from the hand of God created after God's image. He lost that image when he sinned, and took on the image of his new master, the devil himself.

Genesis 1:27​

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”

Genesis 1:31​

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”

I asked you a question once, but as is your custom, you refused to answer. I'll ask again.

That is not so, I always answer any man's question, if asked directly.

What did God do to Adam and Eve after they made the wrong choice?

They just did not make a wrong choice, they rebelled against their Creator.

Did HE destroy them, or did HE chastise them?

• Exile and Exclusion: God drove Adam out of Eden to prevent him from taking the tree of life and living forever in his fallen state.
• Establishment of Separation: God placed Cherubim and a flaming sword at the east of Eden to secure the way to the tree of life, signaling broken fellowship.
• Imposition of Curse and Labor: God cursed the ground, ensuring that Adam would suffer toil and sorrow, and that his life would become a "life-long toil".
• Enforcing Death: Although Adam did not die physically immediately, Moses emphasizes that spiritual death and the corruption of human nature occurred instantly, which ultimately leads to physical decay and death, per Genesis 5:3; Ecclesiastes 12.
• Promise of Grace: Despite the punishment, Moses notes God’s grace in promising that a Savior would come from the woman’s seed to defeat the serpent (Genesis 3:15).

 

[brightfame52]

Man's corruption begun when sin entered into the world through Adam's disobedience.

Now i dont agree with @Studyman at all in his soteriogly, but I believe though Adam was created innocent and upright, nevertheless he was still mutable flesh at His highest estate and would eventually fall from the high standard of Gods Holy Law which is Spiritual and he was carnal flesh just untried. Rom 7:14

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Was Adam Spiritual at Creation ? I dont believe so.. Was He natural and carnal ? Yes I believe so, but innocent

 

[civic]

Was Adam Spiritual at Creation ? I dont believe so.. Was He natural and carnal ? Yes I believe so, but innocent

pure speculation, conjecture and presuppositionalism.

 

[brightfame52]

pure speculation, conjecture and presuppositionalism.

You say anything

 

[Red Baker]

@brightfame52

Now i dont agree with @Studyman at all in his soteriogly, but I believe though Adam was created innocent and upright, nevertheless he was still mutable flesh at His highest estate and would eventually fall from the high standard of Gods Holy Law which is Spiritual and he was carnal flesh just untried. Rom 7:14

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Was Adam Spiritual at Creation ? I dont believe so.. Was He natural and carnal ? Yes I believe so, but innocent

I agreed 100% that God alone is immutable, that's why God had an election among both angels and man. More on this tomorrow, the Lord willing.

 

[Jim]

@Jim

No Jim, I'm following John's words very carefully, by following flow of John's words. Read again my words.

Use scriptures to prove me wrong.

John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

 

[Red Baker]

@Jim

John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

What are you doing up at this time: 4:05 eastern standard time, your time would be around 2:00? maybe even 1:00?

Jim, you know I highly respect your age and even your faith, but your understanding is much to be desired.

First, you changed the the meaning of the verse by finding a bible that best agrees with what you want to believe; secondly, you are not hearing what John is saying base on the context and the flow of the scriptures in John 1:10-13. I have been over this so many times, and thus far you have refused to hear.......... that the power to believe is that which is given proven by John 1:13. There's nothing more to add on these wonderful scriptures.

 

[Red Baker]

@brightfame52

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Was Adam Spiritual at Creation ? I dont believe so.. Was He natural and carnal ? Yes I believe so, but innocent

Based upon 1st Corinthians 15:45-49 I agree and so does all of the men of God in the past that I have read behind.

According to both John Calvin and John Gill and all others from both side of isles, they can be summed up by saying:

Adam was indeed created holy, righteous and with a pure natural knowledge of God, and all distinguish this from spiritual knowledge and righteousness that comes through regeneration. Adam had perfect natural communion with God, but lacked the supernatural grace conferred in Christ sealed with Christ's image.

• Image of God: Adam was created in the image of God, which the scriptures defines as consisting of wisdom, knowledge, holiness, righteousness, and the correct use of his rational powers.
• Natural vs. Spiritual: Paul in 1st Corinthians 15 maintains that Adam's knowledge was "natural," his holiness "natural," and his communion with God in a "natural way" since he was of the earth, thereforth earthly. .
• No "Spiritual" Regeneration: the scriptures notes that while Adam was pure, he was not "spiritual" in the sense of receiving the specialized spiritual grace that is only provided through Christ (the second Adam) form heaven.
• A Living Soul: Adam was a "living soul"—an intelligent, rational, and immortal creature, but he was created in a state of natural innocence rather than being "born again" or spiritually renewed from a fallen state

 

[Jim]

@Jim

What are you doing up at this time: 4:05 eastern standard time, your time would be around 2:00? maybe even 1:00?

Jim, you know I highly respect your age and even your faith, but your understanding is much to be desired.

First, you changed the the meaning of the verse by finding a bible that best agrees with what you want to believe; secondly, you are not hearing what John is saying base on the context and the flow of the scriptures in John 1:10-13. I have been over this so many times, and thus far you have refused to hear.......... that the power to believe is that which is given proven by John 1:13. There's nothing more to add on these wonderful scriptures.

Take your pick. These all say about the same thing. Not a one of them speak of the "power to believe". That is your eisegesis working overtime.

As I have done before, ask the question, "Who were born of God?" The answer is those who received Jesus, i.e., those who believed in Jesus.

There is no other way to read and understand the passage. To become the child of God is to be born again. Those that did receive Jesus, i.e., that believed in Him, were given the right, the privilege, the authority, the liberty to become children of God, i.e., the privilege to be born again.

Verse 12 declares the order of events. Receive, believe and become a child of God. Verse 13 simply declares what a child of god is, namely a child of God is one born [again] of God.

(ASV) But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:

(DRB) But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.

(ESV) But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

(ISV) However, to all who received him, those believing in his name, he gave authority to become God's children,

(KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

(NAS77) But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

(NASB) But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

(NET) But to all who have received him – those who believe in his name – he has given the right to become God’s children

(NIrV) Some people did accept him. They believed in his name. He gave them the right to become children of God.

(NIV) Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

(NKJV) But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

(RV) But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(YLT) but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God--to those believing in his name,

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

Again, you guys cherry pick Scripture, separate it from the entire rest of the Bible, then twist it to promote the teaching of someone who "Transformed themselves into Apostles of Christ".

Actually, he was not cherry picking ~ Romans 3:9-19 is the sum of all that is in the word of God concerning fallen humanity. So much so, that even David mentioned the same points in Psalms 14 and 53, search and see for yourself. If God chose to say the same thing three different places, then it is very important for us to consider the teaching thereof.

You accuse others of what you are guilty of. If anyone is guilty on this forum of cherry picking, it would be you, since you repeat over and over the same things, showing your limited biblical knowledge.

But for those "doing Truth", they examine Paul's entire message, not just the parts they can use to justify a religion that existed in the world God placed us in, that you have adopted. Here, let me show you what I mean.

Sir, I have heard you for many years, and if anyone is limited on what they teach it would be you ~ as to the whole counsel of God you would have no clue as to what it contains. Your religion is man centered, instead of Christ. You preach more of what man "can and should do" to inherit eternal life than what Christ has done to secured eternal life for God's elect.

But don't listen to me, listen to Paul

No problem, I will!

 

[brightfame52]

God sees all men by nature as dead in sin like this Eph 2:1-3

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

We are by nature controlled by a spirit of disobedience or unbelief, thats our manner of life while dead in sin.

This sets the stage for the need of Sovereign Grace !

 

[Studyman]

Who said that ? You just came out of left field with this statement because you dont know what else to do

Now come on bf52, you posted Paul's words quoting David to support your adopted philosophy of total depravity. I have listened to the promoters of Calvinism use these same scriptures to promote their tulip philosophy for 40 years. Everyone on this forum knows that the reason you posted these select scriptures, is to promote total depravity, which is a teaching that promotes the foolishness that men are not created with the capacity to learn obedience. No not one.

 

[Studyman]

Its called showing scripture to verify the truth of what is stated. Its really exegesis, drawing out of the context what is clearly stated. The opposers only defense is to claim its cherry picking

Actually no, that isn't true at all. The practice of cherry picking God's Word is a popular tactic used by the promoters of this world's religions for the purpose of promoting a philosophy that could not be supported if all of the message was considered.

Jim said, "Elect according to what God knew beforehand about the person.", which is Biblically True. But Calvinists promote that "EVERYONE" is totally depraved, and they carefully select Paul's words in Rom. 3:9-19 to promote their philosophy. But when we look at more of Paul's teaching, including where he "Before Proved" that "they" are still under sin, we find that Paul isn't promoting total depravity at all. So my argument against your adopted religious philosophy is not made by using my words, or carefully selecting scripture, rather, it is made by including "Every Word" inspired by Christ, spoken by Paul. You can read it for yourself in your own Bible.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

The practice of cherry picking God's Word is a popular tactic used by the promoters of this world's religions for the purpose of promoting a philosophy that could not be supported if all of the message was considered.

Who can best give the proper definition than the king of the cherry pickers?

Nevertheless, Jesus Christ plainly taught total depravity asserting that humanity is inherently sinful and unable to save themselves without divine intervention. Jesus taught that people are "evil" by nature, leading to sinful actions (Matthew 7:11), and that humanity is spiritually "lost" or dead, requiring a new birth first ~ John 3:5-7, Luke 19:10).

Key aspects of Jesus’ teaching on this topic include:

• The Nature of Sin: Jesus taught that evil acts stem from a corrupted heart, not just external influences, as in Mark 7:21-23.
• Spiritual Inability: Jesus stated that "no one can come to me unless the Father... draws him" (John 6:44), teaching a total inability to choose God independently.
• Need for Regeneration: He emphasized that humans must be "born again" (John 3:3-7) before they can see, hear, obey, etc.

 

[civic]

Now i dont agree with @Studyman at all in his soteriogly, but I believe though Adam was created innocent and upright, nevertheless he was still mutable flesh at His highest estate and would eventually fall from the high standard of Gods Holy Law which is Spiritual and he was carnal flesh just untried. Rom 7:14

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Was Adam Spiritual at Creation ? I dont believe so.. Was He natural and carnal ? Yes I believe so, but innocent

So you think if there was no serpent, devil, satan he still would of sinned, is that your position ?