What is the Gospel

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

God has already described the truth about how HE deals with men

That's the main problem with your teachings, and others like you. God has indeed described how he put this world into motion by creating all things for his own pleasure. Adam and Eve were created after God's image, with spiritual knowledge, understanding, and wisdom, placed into a perfect garden with one simple commandment, yet they sinned as soon as God left them to themselves, just as the angels that left their first estate, sinned when God left them to themselves without securing either of their state in which He created them. Neither was he under obligations to do so. The lesson learned by us by both angels and man sinning when left to themselves is this: God "alone" is immutable and cannot be tempted to sin.

and God's Church was alive and well for years before Jesus explained to Paul why he was kicking against the pricks.

There is a church, "only" by the eternal purposes of God in his election of pure grace, and apart from that blessed truth, there would have been no souls saved from sin and condemnation, no, not one.

1st Peter 1:2​

“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”

It is not hard to understand such scripture as this one, though wicked minds who hate the doctrine of pure grace seek to overthrow its blessed truth.

What God foresaw was that if he did not have an election of grace, then not one soul on their own strength, power would have ever came to the knowledge of the blessed truth of the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ, not one. If anyone has come, it is owing to the mercy of God alone, for if God had not shown mercy, then Paul's experience on the road to Damascus would have never happened, never. For Paul certainly was not seeking God, but he was seeking to destroy the faith and religion of Jesus Christ, by killing those that God had called out of darkness into His blessed light, by grace alone.

For anyone to try to pervert this scripture to make it mean that God foresaw who would believe and come to the knowledge of the truth by their own will and power (or works) is quickly expose as a lie by God's testimony.

Psalms 14:2,3 (See also Psalms 53; Romans 3:9-18; etc.)​

“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”

God's Church was alive and well for years

Only by His grace alone, not owing to any work done by man apart from God's grace.

My issue with this world's religious system is their practice of taking a few sentences from Paul, separating them from all of Jesus' Words, all of Paul's other words, all of the Law and Prophets, and then twisting them to promote a religious philosophy in which God Words are not to be believed.

Bold emphasis are mine for discussion.

Much like you do, by preaching the same message over and over again, about "the voices in the garden"!

Paul does not support Calvinism, unless a man engages in the above described practice.

Your pitiful logical fallacy used is all you folks have to try to convince others that you are defending the truth. This has nothing to do with Calvinism, or Arminianism, but what saith the word of God. Both have their errors, but one has much less than the other, which is easily proven, but I rather stay with thus saith the word of God.

So when God tells you;

Duet. 30: 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore "choose" life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Only those born of God have the power to hear, believe, and live what the holy scriptures teaches, and that is to whom this word is sent to, and to no others! You take the scriptures and think that the scriptures are written for all sinners in south and west side of Chicago! Most of which will die in their sins and never give God one serious thought for hardly one second of their lifetime.

Acts 2:39​

“For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”

You are taught by "Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that God is lying to you. That you have no choice, and they cherry pick and twist Paul's words, to convince as many as possible that God lied to us. Just as the preacher in Eve's world convinced her. " Ye shall not surely die:

Studyman, that's what folks like you teach, it is you that tell men that they are not really dead spiritual speaking and that sinners can on their own free will do can do spiritual acts pleasing to God, when the scriptures clearly said that you are a liar.

Romans 8:7​

“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.”

That's the testimony of the Spirit of God, that men like you reject and hate concerning men still in the flesh, or men not yet born of God.

 

[Red Baker]

@brightfame52

How can the natural man and mind comprehend it ?

He cannot, until he is born of God.

 

[Jim]

1st Peter 1:2
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”

Elect according to what God knew beforehand about the person. Now of course He knew everything about the person beforehand.

It is not hard to understand such scripture as this one, though wicked minds who hate the doctrine of pure grace seek to overthrow its blessed truth.

What God foresaw was that if he did not have an election of grace, then not one soul on their own strength, power would have ever came to the knowledge of the blessed truth of the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ, not one.

What God foresaw was those who would love God (Rom 8:28-30). Clearly, it is those who love God that are called according to His purpose (vs.28). Verses 29-30 then describe the process whereby those who love God are called.

If anyone has come, it is owing to the mercy of God alone, for if God had not shown mercy, then Paul's experience on the road to Damascus would have never happened, never. For Paul certainly was not seeking God, but he was seeking to destroy the faith and religion of Jesus Christ, by killing those that God had called out of darkness into His blessed light, by grace alone.

Paul certainly thought he was seeking God. But he had failed to see the truth of what the scriptures had prophesied. There are some that need a little more help than normal to see that truth. In Paul's case, God knew beforehand how devoted, how faithful, how much he would love God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That is why He chose Paul to be the apostle to the Gentiles. It was on the road that Paul was shown the truth and believed it. It was three days later that his sins were washed away, i.e., that he was born again because one cannot be born again and still have sins not washed away. To be born again is, among other things, to have sins forgiven, i.e., to have sins washed away.

 

[Red Baker]

@Jim

Elect according to what God knew beforehand about the person. Now of course He knew everything about the person beforehand.

Jim, God knows the end from the beginning, and every single thought, deed, of everything single person that was ever born of a woman, that's a given if we believe the God of the holy scriptures. Knowing this truth, he knew that no one would have sought after him apart from God first causing them to do so. Man left to himself, without God showing any temporal mercy to him. would be as the beast of fields, even worse than some of them!

Isaiah 1:3​

“The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.”

What God foresaw was those who would love God (Rom 8:28-30). Clearly, it is those who love God that are called according to His purpose (vs.28). Verses 29-30 then describe the process whereby those who love God are called.

You are boldly going against the word of the Living God, which words we provided above. Jesus Christ came to do for us what we could not do for ourselves, even under the very best circumstances that could be provided for man, as it was for Adam and Eve.

Jim, why did Christ have to be a "surety" for his people? Very simple, because it was impossible for us to do it for ourselves under the very best conditons that God could provide for us. Adam and Eve are the prime example as to why we need a surety before the law of God, much more so in our fallen condition, which Adam and Eve did not have.

Paul certainly thought he was seeking God. But he had failed to see the truth of what the scriptures had prophesied. There are some that need a little more help than normal to see that truth. In Paul's case, God knew beforehand how devoted, how faithful, how much he would love God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That is why He chose Paul to be the apostle to the Gentiles. It was on the road that Paul was shown the truth and believed it.

Jim, so many errors in this short paragraph.

Jim, all are dead equally in tresspasses and sin, and all need the same power that raised Jesus from the dead to raise sinners from being dead in sins to life in Jesus Christ. Read Ephesians 1:19-2:1 which has been used several times to you, so far without any profit to your understanding.

Paul was not born with a nature that love God, but with a nature which was at enmity against him, per Paul's very own testimony in Romans 8:5-9. Before Paul's conversion, he trusted in his flesh, had confidence in his flesh that what he was doing he was pleasing God, even though he lived in malice toward godly folks, but once the commandment came with true understanding, then he died to all hope in his natural flesh, knowing just how wicked he was by nature, even though he thought he was not that bad by nature, he truly thought that he was pleasing God while living in pride and hatred toward the truth. See Philippians 3:1-9.

It was three days later that his sins were washed away, i.e., that he was born again because one cannot be born again and still have sins not washed away. To be born again is, among other things, to have sins forgiven, i.e., to have sins washed away.

Being baptized in water does not legally wash one's sins away, that is heresy. Only the life, death and resurrection of Christ is the only means one's sins are forgiven legally, whether or not they are ever baptized in water or not. Water baptism is for believers only and a believer is already a child of God ~ water baptism that not change that truth. See 1st John 5:1

 

[brightfame52]

Paul does not support Calvinism,

Sure He does, Tulip Truths, he is a expounder of them all

 

[brightfame52]

Elect according to what God knew beforehand about the person.

Which is this Rom 3:9-19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 3:9-19 Paints a dim picture , showing the ruin of man from the fall in Adam, and the death it resulted in. This picture shows man dead with the total absence of life, seperated from God.

 

[civic]

N

Rom 3:9-19 Paints a dim picture , showing the ruin of man from the fall in Adam, and the death it resulted in. This picture shows man dead with the total absence of life, seperated from God.

None of the above that’s reading into the passage your presuppositions

 

[brightfame52]

N

None of the above that’s reading into the passage your presuppositions

Huh ? Paul shows how God sees all men Jew and Gentile in nature, under sin ! Read it Rom 3:9-19

 

[Clay]

I’ve resolved that the Gospel is both more simple than I realize and more complex than I can grasp. I’m okay with that, because every glance at the Gospel is more inviting, more awakening, more engaging than the last. It begs me to breathe in every aspect as if it will be my last.

This is the Gospel: God, limitless in authority and power, was determined to provide an adequate solution to the disastrous pain of sin. The separation that sin has caused between humanity and God needed resolve. Jesus came to be the perfect and full payment for sin. We can enter back into harmonious relationship with God through faith in Jesus and true repentance.

 

[Red Baker]

@Clay

I’ve resolved that the Gospel is both more simple than I realize and more complex than I can grasp.

Greetings Clay,

That statement has truth, but I will add, that God's children can grasp the gospel and rejoice it. Grasp the gospel perfectly, probably not, because we all live in a body of sin and death. It hinders our understanding somewhat.

This is the Gospel: God, limitless in authority and power, was determined to provide an adequate solution to the disastrous pain of sin. The separation that sin has caused between humanity and God needed resolve. Jesus came to be the perfect and full payment for sin. We can enter back into harmonious relationship with God through faith in Jesus and true repentance.

Brother, I would say this: "This is the Gospel: God, limitless in authority and power, was determined to provide an adequate solution to the disastrous pain of sin was born in the heart of God to secure eternal life for his elect, who were unable to secure life for themselves because of being a created being, and not God, who alone cannot sin neither can he be tempted to sin in His eternal Deity as God of the holy scriptures, who has no beginning and has no end, eternal both ways, who alone loveth righteousness and hates sin. "

 

[JesusFan]

@Clay

Greetings Clay,

That statement has truth, but I will add, that God's children can grasp the gospel and rejoice it. Grasp the gospel perfectly, probably not, because we all live in a body of sin and death. It hinders our understanding somewhat.

Brother, I would say this: "This is the Gospel: God, limitless in authority and power, was determined to provide an adequate solution to the disastrous pain of sin was born in the heart of God to secure eternal life for his elect, who were unable to secure life for themselves because of being a created being, and not God, who alone cannot sin neither can he be tempted to sin in His eternal Deity as God of the holy scriptures, who has no beginning and has no end, eternal both ways, who alone loveth righteousness and hates sin. "

This all ties into what particular Atonement view position one holds with, as mine would be PSA, and as such, Jesus dead as a particular ransom/satisfaction towards His own Elect chosen to be found now in Christ Jesus

 

[Jim]

@Jim

Jim, God knows the end from the beginning, and every single thought, deed, of everything single person that was ever born of a woman, that's a given if we believe the God of the holy scriptures.

Of course!

Knowing this truth, he knew that no one would have sought after him apart from God first causing them to do so. Man left to himself, without God showing any temporal mercy to him. would be as the beast of fields, even worse than some of them!

Of course NOT! It doesn't say that anywhere in the scriptures that God must first CAUSE them to do so. that is the second mistake of Calvinistic falsehood.

Isaiah 1:3
“The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.”

I am not sure what you think that verse says.

You are boldly going against the word of the Living God, which words we provided above. Jesus Christ came to do for us what we could not do for ourselves, even under the very best circumstances that could be provided for man, as it was for Adam and Eve.

We have [had] the same opportunity that Adam and Eve had, i.e., a choice to obey. Neither they nor we succeeded.

Jim, why did Christ have to be a "surety" for his people? Very simple, because it was impossible for us to do it for ourselves under the very best conditons that God could provide for us. Adam and Eve are the prime example as to why we need a surety before the law of God, much more so in our fallen condition, which Adam and Eve did not have.

You like to speak of the "surety". I have never quite understood what you intend with that word. I understand the truth as presented in Hebrews 7:22 that Jesus is "the guarantee of the better covenant", i.e., the New Covenant. But none of that speaks to the false Calvinist doctrine of soteriology that you have bought into. What it really means is contained in the last verse of Hebrews, chapter 7; "For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever".

Jim, so many errors in this short paragraph.

Maybe you could point out the errors.

Jim, all are dead equally in tresspasses and sin, and all need the same power that raised Jesus from the dead to raise sinners from being dead in sins to life in Jesus Christ. Read Ephesians 1:19-2:1 which has been used several times to you, so far without any profit to your understanding.

I have read Ephesians 1:19-2:1 many times. I think I have a fair handle on it; certainly more so than the Calvinist fallacies that you present. Moreover, you should really back up a bit. For example, Ephesians 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, That flies in the face of your beliefs.

Paul was not born with a nature that love God, but with a nature which was at enmity against him, per Paul's very own testimony in Romans 8:5-9.

Do you really think that Paul was doing all the things he was doing against the church because he hated God? He was wrong, but not because he had no respect for God. He was wrong because he was confused about what God had said concerning the Messiah, among other things. That is not so different from the way in which Calvin was wrong concerning the Messiah, among other things.

Before Paul's conversion, he trusted in his flesh, had confidence in his flesh that what he was doing he was pleasing God, even though he lived in malice toward godly folks, but once the commandment came with true understanding, then he died to all hope in his natural flesh, knowing just how wicked he was by nature, even though he thought he was not that bad by nature, he truly thought that he was pleasing God while living in pride and hatred toward the truth. See Philippians 3:1-9.

Phillipians 3:9 "----not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith-- "

Being baptized in water does not legally wash one's sins away, that is heresy.

I have never said that it did. Baptism in water is the occasion, the point in the life of the penitent believer, when God washes way his sins.

Only the life, death and resurrection of Christ is the only means one's sins are forgiven legally, whether or not they are ever baptized in water or not.

Actually, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the basis upon which God forgives the sins of the penitent believer when he is baptized. The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the perfect, once for all, sacrifice for the sins of the mankind.

Heb 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Jesus is both the High Priest and the perfect sacrifice

Water baptism is for believers only and a believer is already a child of God ~ water baptism that not change that truth. See 1st John 5:1

Not true. Once again. you are reading it all wrong. It is the believer who is given the privilege, the power, the right to become a child of God. John 1:12-13.

 

[Jim]

Huh ? Paul shows how God sees all men Jew and Gentile in nature, under sin ! Read it Rom 3:9-19

What do you think the passage, "None is righteous, no, not one", means? It does not mean no one ever does anything right.

 

[brightfame52]

What do you think the passage, "None is righteous, no, not one", means? It does not mean no one ever does anything right.

Yes it means man is dead to doing right spiritually, as it pertains to salvation and a right relationship with God, thats as dead as a doornail son

 

[brightfame52]

Does man by nature seek after the God of Sovereign Election ? Thats the God of the scripture, yet man by nature doesnt seek after Him Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom 9 proves the God of the scripture is the God of Sovereign Election.

 

[Jim]

Yes it means man is dead to doing right spiritually, as it pertains to salvation and a right relationship with God, thats as dead as a doornail son

That is what I thought you might say. That is really poor interpretation. That is eisegesis.

Jesus said in Mark 10:18 "----No one is good except God alone." That includes you @brightfame52. So, what does that mean? Does that mean you are dead to doing good spiritually? After all, Paul said in Romans 3 that "---no one does good, not even one."

 

[Jim]

Does man by nature seek after the God of Sovereign Election ? Thats the God of the scripture, yet man by nature doesnt seek after Him Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom 9 proves the God of the scripture is the God of Sovereign Election.

Romans 9 says not one word about sovereign election. Once again, you just read into the scriptures whatever you want to be there.