What is the Gospel
- Thread starter civic
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I know how popular this world's religious tradition is of adopting a popular religious philosophy, for example, " Ye shall not surely die". Then searching out scriptures that can be used to support said philosophy, if they are separated from the rest of the Bible.
This is an old tactic used by the very first mainstream preacher that existed in the world God placed Adam and Eve in, who professed to know God but "in works denied him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate". For example, in Genesis 3 the preacher said, " Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" And if I searched God's Word looking for justification of this philosophy, I would find in Gen. 2: 16 And the LORD God "commanded the man", saying, Of "every tree of the garden" thou mayest freely eat: . And if I separated this sentence from the rest of the Bible, I could use it to justify the preachers teaching.
So then would you say God is lying here, or an unjust God for punishing Adam and Eve for simply doing what God Commanded them to do? I mean, there it is, God's Own Words. Well if you were seeking justification of an adopted religious philosophy that existed in the world God placed you in, you certainly could. But if a man is seeking God's Truth, would he not consider "Every Word" that proceeds from the mouth of God? And if he did, would he not have a more complete understanding of God's actual message concerning a topic? In this way through the Word of God a man is corrected, reproved and instructed in God's Actual Righteousness.
This is why I am so grateful that Jesus freed me from the Yoke of Bondage of this world's religious system that many are held captive by. I am free to discuss any scripture in search of God's Truth. While you can't, because, just like the verses I posted you must ignore them, if they can't be used to justify an adopted religious philosophy.
Now you are free to adopt and promote this world's popular religious philosophy, " Ye shall not surely die", and tell everyone you are already immortal. But I would advocate that you be not so high minded, and perhaps show a little fear, and SEEK to know the Truth of God, not just justification. And this by considering every Inspired Word of God, including Paul's;
Rom. 2: 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment "of God"; 6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":
7 To them who "by patient continuance" in well doing seek for glory and honour "and immortality", eternal life:
In this way a man places His Truth and Faith in the Word of God, not the other voices in the garden God placed us in.
And we can know, in our hearts, that if we endure to the end, we shall be saved.
civic
Active Member
Yes, Another dodge. Thanks for the warning. As if 1 John 5:11-13 makes completely void, completely destroys or renders as irrelevant I John 2:1-6.
civic
Active Member
Nope it’s all in 100% unison you just can’t put the pieces of the puzzle together it’s one big scattered mess in Unitarianism
The Gospel of Paul was the same as all of the other Apostles@Studyman
It was there that Paul addressed the true gospel of Jesus Christ in detail as he exposed the gospel preached by ministers of Satan.
Galatians is given to the church to help her to know the difference between the true grace of God, and those who have fallen from grace, or the doctrine of grace. So, why are you evading laying out to us your understanding of these all important scriptures that would either vindicate you, or expose you? I know why, and so do others, if any are following these posit,
Sir, I do not want to continually address your opening dialogue that you use over and over in your post, that most could quote word by word since they hear it over and over again from you:
You think that you by your own power of your sinful will have determined to not listened to other voices other than God's voice. We know that God alone made the difference between Jacob and Esau, before they had done any good or evil by the grace alone!
Romans 9:11
“(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth”
You reject the word of God, yet made loud speeches that you are not following other voices yet you are those other voices in this world!
"and the priest shall make an atonement for him"~ For his sin which he had sinned, and it shall be forgiven him; upon the atonement made; and so forgiveness of sin with God proceeds upon the atonement made by the blood of Christ, Hebrews 9:22. God never took one step towards it, without a regard to Christ the propitiation for sin; he promised it with a view to him; there is "no instance of pardon under the Old Testament but in this way", and God always has respect to Christ in pardon, it is for his sake; and this way of forgiveness best provides for the glory of the divine perfections; there can be no better way, or infinite wisdom would have used it; there could be no other way, considering the council and covenant of peace; to pardon, without atonement and satisfaction, is not consistent with the purity, justice, and veracity of God; and to observe this great truth, the phrase is afterwards frequently repeated.
So, what is your point for desiring to ask this question?
I disagree somewhat with that point of view. I would say that you can know, by faith, that you are saved. I can't prove that I am saved. I can't prove even that God exists, let alone prove that God saves me; however, I think I can say that I know, by faith, that God exists and that God saves those according the to the words that I know, by faith, are His words and they are true.
I certainly appreciate the reply, and I understand the sentiment. Not a hill worth dying on in my view. And I can't argue with your logic, because I too am convinced that "without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
I just want to make sure I am not being high minded, and to make sure I'm always seeking to be accepted by Him, etc. I just don't want to become one of those guys who goes through life "Knowing" they are saved, only to be told by Jesus that HE didn't even know them, when they see Jesus face to face, because they adopted a religion that "works iniquity" all those years they ran around saying HE had already saved them?
If I "knew", it wouldn't be Faith, but I can see your point as well.
And yet another dodge.
What purpose of God according to election? What election? In the selection of Jacob and Esau God was not choosing one for salvation and the other for condemnation. Verse 12 says, "she [Rebekah] was told, "The older will serve the younger," Clearly that has nothing to do with either being saved or condemned. It was not about salvation of either per se; rather it was about using both to bring the Messiah to the world. That was the purpose of God. The election here is the choosing of the Nation Isreal to bring the Messiah to the world.You think that you by your own power of your sinful will have determined to not listened to other voices other than God's voice. We know that God alone made the difference between Jacob and Esau, before they had done any good or evil by the grace alone!
Romans 9:11
“(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
It is important to understand that the forgiveness of sin under the Old Covenant was a bit different than the forgiveness of sin under the New Covenant. The difference was subtle, perhaps. but important. Technically, forgiveness of sin is not sufficient for salvation. Whether or not sin is forgiven, God must punish sin. Forgiveness and punishment are separate. Under the New Covenant, instituted with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus at the Cross, forgiveness of sin of the individual is given, just as it was under the Old Covenant; but additionally, under the New Covenant the punishment for sin accomplished by Jesus was accredited to the sinner. For those forgiven under that Old Covenant, the punishment for sin that they yet owed was credited to them at the instant when Jesus died for the sins of the world. For us under the New Covenant, the punishment for the sin that we owe is credited to us at the same time that we receive forgiveness for our sins. That is Justification. In the message of the New Covenant as presented in the New Testament, forgiveness for sin is taken to mean both forgiveness and accreditation for the punishment for sin paid by Jesus at the cross.
That is the reason, I believe, that the words atone or atonement are not found in the NT [except for the KJV in one place, one more poor translation/interpretation by the KJV].
My thinking in this came about long after I came to believe in God. It came about after I was with my mother on her death bed. She was in the hospital and I, my father and my sister were at her side. The minister for our congregation was there also. He asked her if she was afraid. She answered yes. The minister then asked if she would like us to pray for her. She answered yes and together we prayed.
That bothered me at the time, but I didn't understand why for quite some time after. I might be a bit prejudiced, but I felt that if anyone would find themself with Jesus when they died it would be my mother. I would be some time later that I began to understand what it meant to have sins forgiven. Forgiveness of sins is not something that God does each time we sin and confess the sin. To be forgiven is a state of being. It is what the repentant believer who has been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ becomes. It is who were are. We are forgiven. We are justified, Paul said we are "justified by faith", and specifically in Romans 5:1, Paul says, "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." He also said in 2 Corinthians 5:8 "Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord."
At the moment of our death, if we are at all aware of it when it happens, we must not be afraid as my mother was. We must, in spite of being sad, perhaps, to be leaving loved ones behind, be at peace with God knowing that we will next be at home with Jesus. I can honestly say that I am not afraid to die. I am afraid or at least a bit concerned about the manner of my dying, but not about becoming dead.
@Jim
One question for you before leaving this subject. You said:
What does Pharaoh have to do with the coming Messiah into the world? Not one thing Jim, for that was not why God love Jacob and not Esau!
Jim you are so wrong, the following verses proves that you are wrong, plus not a word in them saying or even hinting concerning what you are saying. But, we have been over these scriptures with you for many years and in much depth and time yet no progress and there will be none today, so, I will forbear doing this again with with you.
One question for you before leaving this subject. You said:
Jim then why did Paul say these words to add to his teaching of election of grace:
Romans 9:17
“For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.”What does Pharaoh have to do with the coming Messiah into the world? Not one thing Jim, for that was not why God love Jacob and not Esau!
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Leviticus-4-31/
"one of the common people sin....."that is, a single person, and so is distinguished from the congregation, one of the common sort of people; however is neither an high priest, nor a prince, or king, but either a common priest, or Levite, or Israelite; no man is free from sin; all sorts of persons, of all ranks and degrees, high and low, rich and poor, men in office, civil or ecclesiastical, or in whatsoever state of life, are liable to sin, and do sin continually, either ignorantly or willingly; and Christ is a sacrifice for all sins and for all sorts of sinners: though all sins and fall short of the glory of God, the goldy among men grieves them of their sinful prone nature to sin in all that we do, even in our most humble and devoted time to not sin, we see that sin lives in our fallen nature, and is very much active, even when we labor not to sin, sin is mixed with all of our righteous deeds to please God and will be the case as long as we live in this body of "SIN" and death.
No sir, this is wrong~we look to the NT and what Christ did for us to atone for all of our sins, and rest in the truth that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those few who believe, the system under which God has ordained for his elect to come unto the knowledge of how their sins are freely forgiven them for Christ's sake, not for any work in which they have an active part in as far as their legal justification for the law of God. Jesus Christ secured eternal life for God's elect, soley by himself, by his faith and obedience alone.
Okay, let's say I agree with you with this statement, then let us hear what Paul clearly said concerning what he has come to see, and embraced as truth and why he did so:
Philippians 3:9
“And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:”Paul forsook all of his so called confidence in his flesh, for the righteousness of God which through the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ, that he secured for God's elect.
Philippians 3:4
“Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:”Sir, you are trusting in what you can do in flesh, not what Christ did for those who only believe and who put no confidence in their flesh, or old man that they received from Adam.
What they truly rejected was that Christ "SECURED" eternal life for God's elect by his faith and obedience alone, for they had no power to do even one of God's commandment, nor did they even have a desire to do so, without first being made a new creature through the power of God in the new birth.
Studyman, STOP and read that verse again, and listen carefully to Paul's words. Paul said it so clearly that sinners are NOT justified by the works of the law, which means, "any work they have an active part in"; but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, in others words ~ Christ's faith and obedience secured eternal life for his people, and salvation from sin and condemnation is not by our works, or any work we have an active part in! After you quoted Romans three, you immediately said:
Sir, you convinced me just how blinded sincere folks can be! You quote a wonderful scripture from Romans 3 and then no sooner you quote it, you went 100 degrees the other way and begin got teach man's works as a necessity to be accepted with God.
To be justified by the law is anyone seeking to be accepted by what do, or what they do not do, period. Grace looks to Christ's faith and obedience alone, as their only hope of eternal life in the world to come. It is not what we eat, drink, go, wear, etc., but our hope is built on Christ's righteousness alone, plus nothing. This does not mean we use our liberty to serve sin ~ we forsake sin and seek to please the God who has called us out of darkness into his marvelous light.
Who would better know this than you Studyman?
1st Timothy 4:3b,4~".......commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:"
Plus, rejecting the Lord's day for Saturday worship?
Colossians 2:16
“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:”Do you still keep the Jewish feast days as given under the OT?
@Red Baker
Romans 9:17 proves my point in a couple of ways. First, it should be obvious that God raised up Pharaoh for the specific purpose of serving God's agenda of setting the Hebrew people free. It was the through the Hebrew people that God sent His Son into the world for His plan of salvation for the world. Second, God's power cannot be shown by His saving anyone quite simply because the salvation of a person cannot be observed. His power can be shown only by the conduct of some physically observable divine intervention into the natural functioning of His natural law. An example of that was all the powerful plagues against Pharaoh's Egypt and the parting of the Red Sea freeing the Hebrew people. None of that had anything to do with the salvation of any specific Hebrew. Rather is was all God's work in bringing the Messiah into the world.
That is what is expressed in Romans 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
Here the use, both honorable and dishonorable, is the use of people, like the Pharaoh or Jacob or Esau, in this physical life, not the spiritual salvation or condemnation of anyone in the life to come.
So much of the Old Testament is a record of God exercising a general physical control of the nation of Israel and the nations that interacted with it. That is what is primarily indicated by Romans 9:11-16 and the choosing of Jacob and Esau. It was not about choosing anyone for salvation. It was about choosing both to serve God's own purpose of bringing the Messiah into the world.
That was the whole purpose of the choosing, the election, of national Israel.
Yes, all men sin and are in need of forgiveness.
What "works" were required "by law" for forgiveness of sin, before Jesus came, that wasn't required after Jesus came?
That is your religion. But you only posted part of one sentence in order to justify yourself. Here, lets post the whole message.
Rom. 10: 1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish "their own righteousness", have not submitted themselves unto "the righteousness of God".
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Who was Christ?
1 cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank "of that spiritual Rock" that followed them: "and that Rock was Christ". 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things "were our examples", to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Read this very carefully Red, who was it that fed Israel the Righteousness of God? Yes, it was the Christ who became Flesh and Blood. Who was it that created God's Righteousness? Was it not the Christ "of the Bible". So yes, for Israel, and you and I, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth".
Caleb believed, Shadrach believed, Zacharias believed, Simeon believed.
But like Jesus said, " If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
What Law is Paul speaking to? Was it not the Pharisees Law that he just said he was zealous for?
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, "a Pharisee";"
These are the guys who refused to submit to God's Righteousness, and went about establishing their own righteousness, Yes?
Of course he doesn't want to be found of Him, having the righteousness of the Pharisees, but having the Righteousness of God.
How do you not get this? This is why it is so important not to adopt the tradition of this world's religions, of cherry picking scriptures for the purpose self justification, instead of considering "every Word" of God in search of His Truth.
We are taught this wicked practice since our youth from this world's religious system. Each religion, having their pet Scriptures to justify their own righteousness. I hope you will consider here that each time you post a scripture, and promote a doctrine by separating it from the rest of the Bible, when more of the message is examined, your doctrine is proven unsupported.
Everytime.
Again, you are cherry picking scriptures to justify your own adopted religion. I have tried for a dozen years just to have ONE unbiased honest discussion about the meaning of Scripture. And it's always the same thing. Here. Let's just post the next scripture to see again, if your philosophy becomes unsupported again.
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, "a Pharisee";
Did the Pharisees Submit to God's Righteousness, or did they go about establishing their own righteousness? Let's see if you can answer.
Did the Pharisees teach for doctrines the Commandments of men, or commandments of God? Let's see if you can answer.
Did the Pharisees full well obey God's Commandments, that they might keep their traditions, or did they full well reject God's Commandments, that they might keep their traditions. Let's see if you can answer.
By the Pharisees Law, should Jesus and Stephen live because they told the truth, or die because they told the truth? Let's see if you can answer.
When Paul was a Pharisee, was he walking in the Flesh, or the Spirit? Did Jesus walk in the Flesh, or the Spirit?
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
But only if I "Walk" in it, yes?
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, (Animal sacrifices) God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law (Of God, not the Pharisees) might be fulfilled in us, "who walk" not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that "doeth righteousness" (Walks in the Spirit) is righteous, even as he is righteous.
I will address the rest of your reply in another post. I look forward to see if it's in you to answer my questions honestly.
Calvinist dogma.
"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
This is more religious nonsense that is exposed by simply answering honestly the questions I have posed to you.
If I steal, I have sinned, and am in need of repentance before I am justified. Repentance is a "Work" that I am actively partaking of. Unless, accord to Paul and Jesus, I bring forth "works" worthy of repentance, there is no justification. To preach as you do, that I have no part in repentance, no part in the self denial necessary to stop stealing, is absurd. Or no part in the "Yielding myself" to God, or "Offering myself a living sacrifice to God", or putting on the new man, none of your philosophy is supported by Scriptures at all.
Unless you take one or two verses, separate them from the rest of the Bible, and create philosophy using them alone. Which is what the preacher in the garden did in its attempt to deceive Eve.
There are "works" the faithful offer from their heart to God, through Jesus, God's chosen mediator between me and His Father.
What you are completely ignorant of, is the whole "works of the Law" part of Paul's letters.
If you were to humble yourself, just a little bit, when no one is looking so your pride is intact, please read Is. 1:1-20. Here we have the Pharisees defined perfectly.
3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. 5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
This is the Pharisees Paul and David is addressing in Romans 3..
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
And yet, every week they would offer for their willful sins, the blood of an unblemished, innocent life, "As per the law".
10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. 12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
And why is this Red? It's because a man is justified by the FAITH of Jesus, not by "Works of the Law".
It would be the same as a preacher today who "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." Let's use an extreme but not uncommon practice in the religions of this world, and say he molests little girls and boys of his flock, and scams poor widows of their savings and blesses the crooks that give him the greatest tithes. And yet every week he would offer to God for his willful sins, the Blood of Christ, as required by God's Law.
How is this any different than the Pharisees trying to justify their Lawless religion, by "works of the Law"?
But you won't answer, unless you are not here to justify yourself, not seek God's Truth.
This is more of your religious dogma. But the Scriptures promote a different gospel.
Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
2 Pet. 3: 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent "that ye may be found of him" in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, "we may be accepted of him". 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according "to that he hath done", whether it be good or bad.
Matt. 5: 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness "shall exceed" the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, "ye shall in no case enter" into the kingdom of heaven.
Heb. 11: 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God "must believe" that he is, and that he is a rewarder "of them" that diligently seek him.
But you want me to believe all these and many many more instructions in righteousness, are falsehoods. And that I need to turn to your religion, " then my eyes shall be opened, and I shall be like you, knowing good and evil."
I have already saw the movie Red. It's a mistake we all make, but you can repent and turn to God in belief of His Words, and not the other voice in the garden.
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, (Of Jesus) giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain "from meats", which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For "it is sanctified by the word of God" and prayer.
What if "meats" here means teaching, and not maggots, snails or swine's flesh and you have been convinced?
John 4: 34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
John 6: 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
John 6: 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
1 Cor. 3: 2 I have fed you with milk, and "not with meat": for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Col. 2: 16 Let no man therefore judge you "in meat, or in drink", or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Paul is teaching the Faithful, who have Yielded themselves to God, not to let the promoters of this world's religions judge them in their honor, respect and obedience to God.
Heb. 5: 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
But you use this 1 Timothy for the specific purpose of justifying your lust for eating swine's flesh. That is your whole purpose of referencing that scripture. But as you can see, both Jesus and Paul used "meat" as a teaching several times. Will you preach that Paul is teaching here that strong pigs belong to them that are of full age?
What if a "Creature "of God"" is not a maggot, or a snail, or a pig of God, as you preach, rather a man of God.
Rom. 8:20 For "the creature" was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Will you also preach that this is a snake or a lizard or a pig that is delivered from the bondage of corruption?
2 cor. 5: 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Isn't this a new "creature of God" that is to be received with thanksgiving of them which know and believe the Truth? Or is this a new pig?
Gal. 6: 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Col. 1: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached "to every creature" which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Are you then promoting that the gospel was preached to every pig under heaven, and is to be received with thanksgiving because it is sanctified by the Word of God and prayer?
I hope you might consider the Jesus "of the Bibles" warning about the "many" who come in Christ name to deceive, and realize that we all have been deceived by them, no different than Eve.
But we are called to "come out of this "many", and be broken so that we can become a New Creature, "which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness". Crucified with Christ.
@Studyman @Jim
Leaving to go out of town be back late today, so I will answer you tomorrow, the Lord willing.
Tomorrow Jim. Have a wonderful Lord's day, @Studyman had his yesterday on the "Jewish" Sabbath. Which I have no problem with as long as they use it as a day of rest and mediation on the things of the Lord (some godly folks have to, like law enforcement, hospital employees, etc., who have only certain days off) and do not think others are sinning by not doing as they do.
@Studyman
God and Christ are "ONE" in their divine nature as the God of Genesis 1:1! God was manifest in the flesh in the person of Jesus of Narareth, who was the Son of God in his human nature! Who in his human nature was the express image of who God is! When the angels saw Jesus, they saw God for the first time!
For the first time ever! So yes, I know who Christ is, yet you deny Jesus as being God in the flesh! You asked:
That is not what it means when the scriptures declares that Christ is the "END OF THE LAW" for righteousness!
It is a divine transaction by God’s choice of Jesus Christ to secured our righteousness (2nd Corinthians 5:18-21)).
The Law of Moses, so far from being a means of justification, was God’s means of condemnation.
The Law was a schoolmaster for the elect ~ once regenerated to instruct (as to being their schoolmaster) in condemnation to look for the Saviour alone for their free justification by grace (Galatians 3:21-29).
The Law was only a shadow of Christ’s coming and made a remembrance of sin (Hebrews 10:1-4).
Jesus was the end of the law for righteousness practically when He died and atoned for the elect. The law was never a legal way of righteousness, neither by intent nor ability (Galatians 3:10,21-22).
It was only intended to last until the One should come to fulfill and end it (Galatians 3:23-25; 4:1-7).
Hearing of Christ’s finished work, and believing ~ the elect believe and enter into rest from their works as a means of eternal life (Hebrews 4).
One covenant ended and the other began with Jesus Christ (LUke 6:16; John 4:20-24; Hebrews 9:10) The end of the Law here is in the believer’s conscience, not in heaven, for that was already done.
The Law was never intended to save anyone by design or performance, so neither had an end. It is still our rule of life to live by. Jesus put the Law away by fulfilling it twice, positively by fulfilling it, negatively by its curse.
The gospel good news of grace frees the conscience of the elect (Hebrews 9:9, 13,14; 10:1-4,22)
It is not until one is born first of the Spirit does he see just how sinful he is by nature.
As a Pharisee, Paul thought highly of himself, but once born of God, the commandment came to him with understanding and he died to all hope of thinking he could keep the law of God which he thought would give him life in the world to come! The law truly revealed to him just how sinful and wicked he was even when doing his most spiritual acts of pleasing God!
Who are trying to deceive? As I have said more than once, there is no need to quote many scriptures to prove a point, and beside, you do not and neither do others, so stop that supposingly spiritual (falsely) attitude, as though you use all of the word of God when proving a point. That's a very deceitful debating tactic, that will only deceive a few folks into believing that you are a man of the word of God, when in truth you pick and choose whatever best go with what your group believes in, which is a very small portion of the word of God, which is easy to see if one reads very much what you have to say.
I removed the bold lettering to make this easier to read and to respond to without changing any wording of yours.
God and Christ are "ONE" in their divine nature as the God of Genesis 1:1! God was manifest in the flesh in the person of Jesus of Narareth, who was the Son of God in his human nature! Who in his human nature was the express image of who God is! When the angels saw Jesus, they saw God for the first time!
1st Timothy 3:16
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”For the first time ever! So yes, I know who Christ is, yet you deny Jesus as being God in the flesh! You asked:
What are you trying to say? "Who was it that created God's Righteousness? Was it not the Christ "of the Bible".
That is not what it means when the scriptures declares that Christ is the "END OF THE LAW" for righteousness!
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness".................
Jesus Christ is God’s "totally different way" of justifying men as righteous before a righteous God. This is the truth presented /taught in the gospel of Christ. Paul had already taught it (Romans 3:21-26; 4:23-25; 5:1-19; 8:1-4, etc. ).It is a divine transaction by God’s choice of Jesus Christ to secured our righteousness (2nd Corinthians 5:18-21)).
The Law of Moses, so far from being a means of justification, was God’s means of condemnation.
The Law was a schoolmaster for the elect ~ once regenerated to instruct (as to being their schoolmaster) in condemnation to look for the Saviour alone for their free justification by grace (Galatians 3:21-29).
The Law was only a shadow of Christ’s coming and made a remembrance of sin (Hebrews 10:1-4).
Jesus was the end of the law for righteousness practically when He died and atoned for the elect. The law was never a legal way of righteousness, neither by intent nor ability (Galatians 3:10,21-22).
It was only intended to last until the One should come to fulfill and end it (Galatians 3:23-25; 4:1-7).
Hearing of Christ’s finished work, and believing ~ the elect believe and enter into rest from their works as a means of eternal life (Hebrews 4).
One covenant ended and the other began with Jesus Christ (LUke 6:16; John 4:20-24; Hebrews 9:10) The end of the Law here is in the believer’s conscience, not in heaven, for that was already done.
The Law was never intended to save anyone by design or performance, so neither had an end. It is still our rule of life to live by. Jesus put the Law away by fulfilling it twice, positively by fulfilling it, negatively by its curse.
The gospel good news of grace frees the conscience of the elect (Hebrews 9:9, 13,14; 10:1-4,22)
"All" of the elect believe and look to Christ alone for their right to enter into eternal life in that day.
Paul was referring to the law of God, that he thought would give life to those who kept it, and he thought man by nature had that power to do so just as any proud Pharisees boast of doing, that he even thought he was fulfilling ~ what he did not know was just how spiritual that law was, that it condemned imperfection in thoughts deeds and words, which all of our best deeds have sin mixed with them.... Christ alone fulfilled the law perfectly from conception to death on the cross.
Galatians 3:10
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”It is not until one is born first of the Spirit does he see just how sinful he is by nature.
Romans 7:9,10
“For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.”As a Pharisee, Paul thought highly of himself, but once born of God, the commandment came to him with understanding and he died to all hope of thinking he could keep the law of God which he thought would give him life in the world to come! The law truly revealed to him just how sinful and wicked he was even when doing his most spiritual acts of pleasing God!
@Studyman this man is you! The righteousness of God is freely given by grace on the behalf of what Christ did to secured this gift for God's elect, per John 17, etc. You asked: "How do you not get this?" I know why men like you do not:
Matthew 11:27
“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”Studyman, no one is rejecting the truth that God's elect live godly, and if any man lives in sin, he does not know God, but let us define sin by the scriptures, not by touch not, taste not, go not, wear not, buy not, drive not, live not, have not, etc.
@Studyman
He just did not make it possible, he obtained it!
We have no part in our salvation from sin and condemnation, but we do in our daily practical walk through this world. Do not add words to what I believe, or do not believe, try to be more honest in posting. We do have part in our daily walk through this world in many areas.
I'm careful about men like you, who are still living under Moses, and not Christ.
You can dismiss truth by saying that, but you cannot eliminate it from the faithful testimony of God's word.
Hebrews 9:12
“Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”He just did not make it possible, he obtained it!
Again, is this the best you have to offer? Try using scriptures to expose the scriptures and truths that I present to you.
When a child of God sins, then he seeks forgiveness to stay in fellowship, it has nothing to do with his legal justification!
We have no part in our salvation from sin and condemnation, but we do in our daily practical walk through this world. Do not add words to what I believe, or do not believe, try to be more honest in posting. We do have part in our daily walk through this world in many areas.
What are you talking about that I am completely ignorant of? I have no clue. You are more than welcome to explain in detail.
Yes, the elect are justified by the faith and obedience of Jesus CHrist alone legally speaking, without the deeds of the law, or any commandment we have an active part in.
All creatures of God is clean to eat? If received with prayer and true thanksgiving unto the God who provided them for us.
I'm careful about men like you, who are still living under Moses, and not Christ.
