What is Messianic Judaism?

It is important to distinguish between what the Bible says in regard to what God has commanded and what is it says in regard to man's opinions. Where God has given a command, human opinion must yield, but where God has given no command, only then are we free to have our own opinions. For example, God has commanded against eating pork, but He has not commanded to eat only vegetables, so it is one thing for someone to object to eating pork while it is another thing for people to have disputable opinions where they are judging and resenting each other over whether or not they choose to eat only vegetables (Romans 14:1-3).
Wow did you miss what both Paul and the Jerusalem council were saying.
  • One man (a Jewish man) may abstain from pork as an act of worship and give glory to God for it.
  • Another man (a gentile) may eat pork as an act of worship and give God thanks and glory for it.
  • The man who eats should not judge the man who does not eat, and the man who does not eat should not judge the man who eats. BOTH are worshiping God through their actions.
You somehow turned it into a YOKE of Law and a warning not to deviate from following the Law EXACTLY AS WRITTEN (a very Pharisaical approach).
 
Messianic Judaism has two branches. One is trinitarian. The other is unitarian. The trinitarian branch is the larger of the two. I’ve spoken with leaders in both branches.

I was involved in an unfortunate incident with one of the main leaders of the unitarian branch in Israel (Uri Marcus). He and I were eating lunch at the same table at a conference we were attending in Atlanta. Everything was going well until our food was served - food which included meat which wasn’t kosher; pork. It wasn’t his fault. It wasn’t my fault. Neither one of us knew beforehand what was on the menu. He was very angry. I thought for a minute that he was going to turn the table over, but he didn’t. To make a short story shorter, we didn’t finish the conversation we were having and he withdrew from the conference a few minutes later.

* Good grief. That’s the second food related story I’ve spoken about tonight. I promise there won’t be a third. Tonight. *

Whenever I recall the incident it inevitably causes me to think about similar incidents which took place in the early church.
Hindsight is 20/20 ... I would think an hour later "I should have immediately invited him out to lunch somewhere that we could both order Chicken." and left with him. [The gesture of respect from a gentile might have left an even stronger long term memory than the poor choice of a Conference Center.]

Of course, I can never think of the right thing to do quickly enough. :(
 
Hindsight is 20/20 ... I would think an hour later "I should have immediately invited him out to lunch somewhere that we could both order Chicken." and left with him. [The gesture of respect from a gentile might have left an even stronger long term memory than the poor choice of a Conference Center.]

Of course, I can never think of the right thing to do quickly enough. :(
I hate eating chicken. In my book, the only good chicken is a live chicken!

It would have been a good gesture but he was angry and almost immediately left in a car. I don’t recall now exactly where he was going. All I remember is that he was traveling to one of the northern states with one of his assistants. Fortunately, he had already delivered his presentation at the conference.
 
Wow did you miss what both Paul and the Jerusalem council were saying.
  • One man (a Jewish man) may abstain from pork as an act of worship and give glory to God for it.
  • Another man (a gentile) may eat pork as an act of worship and give God thanks and glory for it.
  • The man who eats should not judge the man who does not eat, and the man who does not eat should not judge the man who eats. BOTH are worshiping God through their actions.
You felt free to insert a command of God into a discussion about following man's opinions, which is precisely why I said that it is important to distinguish between what the Bible says in regard to what God has commanded and what is it says in regard to man's opinions. In Romans 14:1, the topic of the chapter is in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow God, so nothing in the chapter should be interpreted as speaking against following what God has commanded. Paul was not suggesting that it is ok to rebel against what God has commanded as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok to do, but rather that was only said in regard to things that are disputable matters of opinion in which God has given no command.

For example, God gave no command to eat only vegetables, yet people were judging and resenting each other over whether they chose to do that (Romans 14:2-3). In Romans 14:5-6, it speaks about those who eat or refrain from eating unto the Lord, so it is speaking about those who esteem certain days for fasting as a disputable matter of opinion. In the 1st century, it had become a common practice to fast twice a week even though God has given no command to do that and people were judging and resenting each other based on whether they chose to do that (Luke 18:12).

You somehow turned it into a YOKE of Law and a warning not to deviate from following the Law EXACTLY AS WRITTEN (a very Pharisaical approach).
Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he was much more zealous for people to take on the yoke of the law than the Pharisees were, which he said was easy and light (Matthew 11:28-30). Moreover, Jesus never criticized the Pharisees for being zealous for obeying the Mosaic Law, but he did criticize them for not obeying the Mosaic Law or for not obeying it correctly. For example, in Mark 7:6-9, Jesus said that they were hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to follow their traditions. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the love of justice, mercy, and faith, so he was not opposing their obedience to what God has commanded, but rather he was calling them to have a higher level of observance to it in a manner that is in accordance with its weightier matters.
 
Why did you quote that?


In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Torah. Instructions for how to practice righteousness are not made for the righteous who already know how to do that, but rather it is the unrighteous who need to be taught those instructions. Those who try to use this verse to try to justify not following the Torah thereby become an unrighteous person that the Torah is made for.


To become righteous through faith means to become someone who practices God's righteousness in obedience to the Torah through faith, but we do not become righteous as the result of having first practiced righteousness in obedience to the Torah as through it were earned as a wage. In other words, the Torah is God's instructions for how to practice His righteousness, not for how to establish our own. For example, the Torah reveals that helping the poor is a way to testify about God's righteousness, so no amount of helping the poor will ever cause us to become righteous because the one and only way to become righteous is through faith. Indeed, our righteousness is in Christ, which is why those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked in obedience to the Torah.
Very well said.
Shalom Hashem Adonai
 
It is important to distinguish between what the Bible says in regard to what God has commanded and what is it says in regard to man's opinions. Where God has given a command, human opinion must yield, but where God has given no command, only then are we free to have our own opinions. For example, God has commanded against eating pork, but He has not commanded to eat only vegetables, so it is one thing for someone to object to eating pork while it is another thing for people to have disputable opinions where they are judging and resenting each other over whether or not they choose to eat only vegetables (Romans 14:1-3).
Do you know why back in the day when God gave the Commandment not to Eat Pork?

First of all they had no Refrigeration in the bad news is pork goes bad extremely fast. And if you eat contaminated pork there's a disease called Trichinosis.

Nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, fatigue, fever, and abdominal discomfort are often the first symptoms of trichinellosis. Headaches, fevers, chills, cough, swelling of the face and eyes, aching joints and muscle pains, itchy skin, diarrhea, or constipation may follow the first symptoms. Trichinosis can be deadly.

So God was looking out for them. It was for Their own good. As is everything God wants us to do.
 
Do you know why back in the day when God gave the Commandment not to Eat Pork?

First of all they had no Refrigeration in the bad news is pork goes bad extremely fast. And if you eat contaminated pork there's a disease called Trichinosis.

Nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, fatigue, fever, and abdominal discomfort are often the first symptoms of trichinellosis. Headaches, fevers, chills, cough, swelling of the face and eyes, aching joints and muscle pains, itchy skin, diarrhea, or constipation may follow the first symptoms. Trichinosis can be deadly.

So God was looking out for them. It was for Their own good. As is everything God wants us to do.
You are correct in your post. Swine and Shellfish are the garbage collectors of the earth.
 
Do you know why back in the day when God gave the Commandment not to Eat Pork?

First of all they had no Refrigeration in the bad news is pork goes bad extremely fast. And if you eat contaminated pork there's a disease called Trichinosis.

Nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, fatigue, fever, and abdominal discomfort are often the first symptoms of trichinellosis. Headaches, fevers, chills, cough, swelling of the face and eyes, aching joints and muscle pains, itchy skin, diarrhea, or constipation may follow the first symptoms. Trichinosis can be deadly.

So God was looking out for them. It was for Their own good. As is everything God wants us to do.
The mishpatim are laws in regard to righteousness and justice that straightforwardly make sense why God commandeered them while the chukim are laws that do not straightforwardly make sense why God commanded them and they do not come with an explanation, so they almost invite us to ponder what they are teaching us about His eternal character through them. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey both the mishpatim and the chukim.

There are night and day differences between how healthy it is to eat clean or unclean animals and there are countless parasites and diseases that have been transferred to humans through eating unclean animals, so that is one of the reasons that people have discerned for why He commanded against eating them, however, God associated refraining from eating unclean animals as part of being holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16, Leviticus 11:44-45), so there is more to it than that. Meat could be dried to prevent spoilage long before there was refrigeration, so it is not as through we are free to eat unclean animals now that we have refrigeration and can cook meat at high enough temperatures to remove contamination.
 
The mishpatim are laws in regard to righteousness and justice that straightforwardly make sense why God commandeered them while the chukim are laws that do not straightforwardly make sense why God commanded them and they do not come with an explanation, so they almost invite us to ponder what they are teaching us about His eternal character through them. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey both the mishpatim and the chukim.

There are night and day differences between how healthy it is to eat clean or unclean animals and there are countless parasites and diseases that have been transferred to humans through eating unclean animals, so that is one of the reasons that people have discerned for why He commanded against eating them, however, God associated refraining from eating unclean animals as part of being holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16, Leviticus 11:44-45), so there is more to it than that. Meat could be dried to prevent spoilage long before there was refrigeration, so it is not as through we are free to eat unclean animals now that we have refrigeration and can cook meat at high enough temperatures to remove contamination.
Thank you for that information greatly appreciated. Those are just my thoughts on the topic. And I certainly believe you know a lot more about it than I do. But I was a meat cutter for 20 years And I do know without special modern equipment it would be extremely dangerous to try to dry out Pork or make ham. I guarantee you it would rot before it came close the drying out. Today in a modern smoker or something along those lines that might work but I wouldn't risk it.

I don't know the mind of God but I like to think of a loving caring God that's got our back and looking out for us. the Bible says his ways are higher than ours. And I'm sure he always does the right thing. And we're called to be imitators of Christ. But then again that's just my logic.

But I like your explanation thanks for taking the time to share it.
 
The mishpatim are laws in regard to righteousness and justice that straightforwardly make sense why God commandeered them while the chukim are laws that do not straightforwardly make sense why God commanded them and they do not come with an explanation, so they almost invite us to ponder what they are teaching us about His eternal character through them. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey both the mishpatim and the chukim.

There are night and day differences between how healthy it is to eat clean or unclean animals and there are countless parasites and diseases that have been transferred to humans through eating unclean animals, so that is one of the reasons that people have discerned for why He commanded against eating them, however, God associated refraining from eating unclean animals as part of being holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16, Leviticus 11:44-45), so there is more to it than that. Meat could be dried to prevent spoilage long before there was refrigeration, so it is not as through we are free to eat unclean animals now that we have refrigeration and can cook meat at high enough temperatures to remove contamination.
Among Jews there are common misconceptions about Kosher food, ranging from the notion that kosher food
means that it has been blessed by a rabbi to the belief that the kosher laws are part of an ancient Jewish health code.
"Pig was forbidden to Jews" one hears many Jews explain, "so that Jews would not get trichinosis"
However, the system known as kashrut is given a rationale in the Torah that has nothing to do with rabbinic blessings
or with health. The Torah associates kashrut with holiness (see, for example, Leviticus 11:44-45 and Deuteronomy 14:21)
Kashrut's laws regulate that Jews are not permitted to eat whatever they may want, and that even permitted foods must
be prepared in a special way. For example, the only animals designated by the Torah as kosher are those that have cloven
hooves and that regurgitate their food. The most commonly eaten kosher animals are the cow and the lamb. But even
these animals must be ritually killed by a shokhet (slaughterer). Jewish law obligates the shokhet to kill the animal with
one quickly drawn stroke against its throat. If he delays the stroke, thus needlessly prolonging death, the animal is rendered
unkosher and Jews are forbidden to eat it.
Among fish, only those with fins and scales are designated kosher (Leviticus 11:9-12; Deuteronomy 14:9-10); no reason
is given for this law. All shellfish are forbidden, so many popular fish, such as shrimp and lobster, are unkosher. Two fish have
been the subject of long-standing controversy between Conservative and Orthodox Judaism: sturgeon and swordfish.
The argument hinges on whether their scales qualify according to Jewish law; the Orthodox say no, the Conservative say yes.
Among birds, only those specifically enumerated in Jewish tradition are permitted; they include chicken, turkey, and duck.
As a rule, permitted animals are herbivorous. Birds that prey on other birds are all forbidden, as are all meat-eating animals.
The Talmud notes that one of the signs of a forbidden bird is that it has a talon to kill.
In Hebrew the word "kosher" literally means "fit" which is why one can ask about a business venture of questionable
legality: "Is it kosher?" Similarly, one might say of a very fine Jew, "He is a kosher Jew"
The opposite of kosher is treif. One distinction children growing up in kosher homes learn that certain things in life
are kosher, and others are treif.

Shalom
 
Among Jews there are common misconceptions about Kosher food, ranging from the notion that kosher food
means that it has been blessed by a rabbi to the belief that the kosher laws are part of an ancient Jewish health code.
"Pig was forbidden to Jews" one hears many Jews explain, "so that Jews would not get trichinosis"
However, the system known as kashrut is given a rationale in the Torah that has nothing to do with rabbinic blessings
or with health. The Torah associates kashrut with holiness (see, for example, Leviticus 11:44-45 and Deuteronomy 14:21)
Kashrut's laws regulate that Jews are not permitted to eat whatever they may want, and that even permitted foods must
be prepared in a special way. For example, the only animals designated by the Torah as kosher are those that have cloven
hooves and that regurgitate their food. The most commonly eaten kosher animals are the cow and the lamb. But even
these animals must be ritually killed by a shokhet (slaughterer). Jewish law obligates the shokhet to kill the animal with
one quickly drawn stroke against its throat. If he delays the stroke, thus needlessly prolonging death, the animal is rendered
unkosher and Jews are forbidden to eat it.
Among fish, only those with fins and scales are designated kosher (Leviticus 11:9-12; Deuteronomy 14:9-10); no reason
is given for this law. All shellfish are forbidden, so many popular fish, such as shrimp and lobster, are unkosher. Two fish have
been the subject of long-standing controversy between Conservative and Orthodox Judaism: sturgeon and swordfish.
The argument hinges on whether their scales qualify according to Jewish law; the Orthodox say no, the Conservative say yes.
Among birds, only those specifically enumerated in Jewish tradition are permitted; they include chicken, turkey, and duck.
As a rule, permitted animals are herbivorous. Birds that prey on other birds are all forbidden, as are all meat-eating animals.
The Talmud notes that one of the signs of a forbidden bird is that it has a talon to kill.
In Hebrew the word "kosher" literally means "fit" which is why one can ask about a business venture of questionable
legality: "Is it kosher?" Similarly, one might say of a very fine Jew, "He is a kosher Jew"
The opposite of kosher is treif. One distinction children growing up in kosher homes learn that certain things in life
are kosher, and others are treif.

Shalom
So many traditions.....

The law was added and never required for countless generations of men. Faith has always been required to please God. That alone is a fact every Jew must deal with. Why was the law added...

The answer is simple but it will change your theology. if you accurately answer that question, it will change your life. You will see absolutes given to control sinners. Not divine directions in how to please God.
 
So many traditions.....

The law was added and never required for countless generations of men. Faith has always been required to please God. That alone is a fact every Jew must deal with. Why was the law added...

The answer is simple but it will change your theology. if you accurately answer that question, it will change your life. You will see absolutes given to control sinners. Not divine directions in how to please God.
It is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God, but not in what He has instructed. The way to please God is by acting in accordance with His character while sin is what is contrary to His character, such as righteousness through faith being the way to please God while unrighteousness is sin, so teaching how to refrain from sin is also teaching how please God.
 
It is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God, but not in what He has instructed. The way to please God is by acting in accordance with His character while sin is what is contrary to His character, such as righteousness through faith being the way to please God while unrighteousness is sin, so teaching how to refrain from sin is also teaching how please God.
Yeah. How many times have you said this to me? Lawyers pretend they make perfect arguments all the time.

Just keep ignoring what I say. If you really want to have a discussion, begin by telling everyone why Abraham didn't receive the law you treasure. Go for it.
 
So many traditions.....

The law was added and never required for countless generations of men. Faith has always been required to please God. That alone is a fact every Jew must deal with. Why was the law added...

The answer is simple but it will change your theology. if you accurately answer that question, it will change your life. You will see absolutes given to control sinners. Not divine directions in how to please God.
You are severely mistaken again. The Torah law was not added it was given by Adonai to build a nation. Its your legalistic theology that needs to change. You seemed to have some kind of warped view of Jewish history. It does take faith (For All I Trust Him) to please Adonai and trust Yeshua
for salvation.

Shalom
 
You are severely mistaken again. The Torah law was not added it was given by Adonai to build a nation. Its your legalistic theology that needs to change. You seemed to have some kind of warped view of Jewish history. It does take faith (For All I Trust Him) to please Adonai and trust Yeshua
for salvation.

Shalom
So you deny the words of Paul. Read Galatians 3:19 for yourself and see why the law was added. You're living in two different words. One that embraces the mistakes of your Rabbis and one where you pretend you believe the Messianic apostles.
 
You are severely mistaken again. The Torah law was not added it was given by Adonai to build a nation. Its your legalistic theology that needs to change. You seemed to have some kind of warped view of Jewish history. It does take faith (For All I Trust Him) to please Adonai and trust Yeshua
for salvation.

Shalom
BTW..

Abraham conquered the people that raided Sodom. He tithed to the King of Salem. Jerusalem, the city of God. Tell me why the law wasn't given to Abraham? The law was given when the people you claim were dancing naked around a golden calf as their god...

We all have sinners as ancestors. We are all in the same position.
 
BTW..

Abraham conquered the people that raided Sodom. He tithed to the King of Salem. Jerusalem, the city of God. Tell me why the law wasn't given to Abraham? The law was given when the people you claim were dancing naked around a golden calf as their god...

We all have sinners as ancestors. We are all in the same position.
I think that is above my pay grade. LOL At least you understand something from the Tanakh.
 
I think that is above my pay grade. LOL At least you understand something from the Tanakh.
The law was added because Israel abandoned God at Sinai. God even offered to kill everyone of them and create a nation form the union of Moses and his Gentile bride.....
The law was given to control Israel because Moses rejected God's offer. That is why it was referenced as the "law of Moses" by Messiah Himself. (Just one of the reasons. There are others)

Let me know if you would like to continue to discuss.

Just FYI.. The Chinese have been eat pork for many generations. How long do the Chinese live?
 
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