What is Messianic Judaism?

[civic]

Messianic Judaism is the term given to the belief system of Jewish people who believe and have accepted Yeshua (the Hebrew name for Jesus) of Nazareth as the promised Messiah of the Hebrew Scriptures. These Jewish people do not stop being Jewish, but they continue to remain strong in their Jewish identity, lifestyle and culture, while following Yeshua as He is revealed in the Brit Chadashah, the New Covenant. Many Messianic Jews refer to themselves as “completed Jews,” since they believe that their faith in the God of Israel has been “completed” or fulfilled in Yeshua.

In reality, Messianic Judaism began 2,000 years ago. Yeshua Himself was an observant Jew, most of the apostles and writers of the New Covenant were Jewish, and the vast majority of the early believers in Yeshua were also Jewish (see Acts chapter 2).

Traditional rabbinical Judaism today does not believe that Yeshua is the Jewish Messiah. Observant Jews are still waiting faithfully in accordance with the Rambam’s (Rabbi Moses Maimonides, 1134-1204) “Thirteen Principles of Jewish Faith,” which states in Principle 12, “I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah. However long it takes, I will await His coming every day.” Most secular Jews do not believe in the physical coming of a personal Messiah, but some still look forward to a general Messianic concept or Messianic Age.

Today, it is estimated that there are over 350,000 Messianic Jews in the world, and the numbers are growing all the time. Messianic synagogues have also become very popular, and recent estimates number more than 200 congregations in the U.S. There are also many Messianic congregations in Israel and around the world.

Messianic Jews continue to celebrate the Jewish festivals and feast days as prescribed in the Hebrew Scriptures (i.e., Feast of Weeks, Feast of Tabernacles, etc.), but their observances are meant to demonstrate how Yeshua has already fulfilled these Holy Days. Most Messianic Jews, if they celebrate Easter, remove the pagan influences and celebrate only what is given in the Bible—viz., the Passover. Jews who now follow Yeshua the Messiah understand that everything given in the Old Covenant was a “mere shadow” of the better things to come in the New.Got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Azriel]

‘Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?’

This was the question John Baptist asks about Jesus, and in the Gospel of Matthew Jesus replies to John's disciples, ‘Go and tell John what you see and hear: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is he who takes no offense at me’

Right there is the question and the answer of the future and the history of Christianity revealed by the Old Testament promises, and the messianic expectation of the kingdom. The events which took place around Jesus and at his word speak on his behalf, for they are the signs of the messianic age where we find ourselves today..

The gospel which come in the miracles to those without hope, and to the poor in his preaching, upholds and authenticates Jesus and continues to do so.

 

[Soyeong]

Messianic Judaism is the term given to the belief system of Jewish people who believe and have accepted Yeshua (the Hebrew name for Jesus) of Nazareth as the promised Messiah of the Hebrew Scriptures. These Jewish people do not stop being Jewish, but they continue to remain strong in their Jewish identity, lifestyle and culture, while following Yeshua as He is revealed in the Brit Chadashah, the New Covenant. Many Messianic Jews refer to themselves as “completed Jews,” since they believe that their faith in the God of Israel has been “completed” or fulfilled in Yeshua.

In reality, Messianic Judaism began 2,000 years ago. Yeshua Himself was an observant Jew, most of the apostles and writers of the New Covenant were Jewish, and the vast majority of the early believers in Yeshua were also Jewish (see Acts chapter 2).

Traditional rabbinical Judaism today does not believe that Yeshua is the Jewish Messiah. Observant Jews are still waiting faithfully in accordance with the Rambam’s (Rabbi Moses Maimonides, 1134-1204) “Thirteen Principles of Jewish Faith,” which states in Principle 12, “I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah. However long it takes, I will await His coming every day.” Most secular Jews do not believe in the physical coming of a personal Messiah, but some still look forward to a general Messianic concept or Messianic Age.

Today, it is estimated that there are over 350,000 Messianic Jews in the world, and the numbers are growing all the time. Messianic synagogues have also become very popular, and recent estimates number more than 200 congregations in the U.S. There are also many Messianic congregations in Israel and around the world.

Messianic Jews continue to celebrate the Jewish festivals and feast days as prescribed in the Hebrew Scriptures (i.e., Feast of Weeks, Feast of Tabernacles, etc.), but their observances are meant to demonstrate how Yeshua has already fulfilled these Holy Days. Most Messianic Jews, if they celebrate Easter, remove the pagan influences and celebrate only what is given in the Bible—viz., the Passover. Jews who now follow

Thank you. Messianic Judaism is also practiced by Messianic Gentiles who are welcome to learn how to follow the God of Israel in obedience to the Torah in accordance with the example that Messiah set for us to follow.

Yeshua the Messiah understand that everything given in the Old Covenant was a “mere shadow” of the better things to come in the New.Got?

hope this helps !!!

The original text does not say "mere shadow", but rather "mere" was unhelpfully added by translators. Foreshadows testify about what is to come and we should live in a way that testifies about what is to come rather than a way that denies what is to come, so Paul was emphasizing their importance. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Jesus as being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother with Passover, he concluded that we should therefore continue to obverse it.

 

[101G]

‘Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?’

This was the question John Baptist asks about Jesus, and in the Gospel of Matthew Jesus replies to John's disciples, ‘Go and tell John what you see and hear: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is he who takes no offense at me’

Right there is the question and the answer of the future and the history of Christianity revealed by the Old Testament promises, and the messianic expectation of the kingdom. The events which took place around Jesus and at his word speak on his behalf, for they are the signs of the messianic age where we find ourselves today..

The gospel which come in the miracles to those without hope, and to the poor in his preaching, upholds and authenticates Jesus and continues to do so.

as in, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you." Isaiah 35:5 "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped." Isaiah 35:6 "Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert." Isaiah 35:7 "And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes." Isaiah 35:8 "And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein." Isaiah 35:9 "No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:" Isaiah 35:10 "And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away."

101G.

 

[101G]

Thank you. Messianic Judaism is also practiced by Messianic Gentiles who are welcome to learn how to follow the God of Israel in obedience to the Torah in accordance with the example that Messiah set for us to follow.

Romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."

and as for the Law in the Torah....1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,"

KNOWING THIS, one doesn't have to search for it. it is established. for our righteousness is in the Lord Jesus.

101G.

 

[Soyeong]

Romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."

Why did you quote that?

and as for the Law in the Torah....1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,"

In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Torah. Instructions for how to practice righteousness are not made for the righteous who already know how to do that, but rather it is the unrighteous who need to be taught those instructions. Those who try to use this verse to try to justify not following the Torah thereby become an unrighteous person that the Torah is made for.

KNOWING THIS, one doesn't have to search for it. it is established. for our righteousness is in the Lord Jesus.

101G.

To become righteous through faith means to become someone who practices God's righteousness in obedience to the Torah through faith, but we do not become righteous as the result of having first practiced righteousness in obedience to the Torah as through it were earned as a wage. In other words, the Torah is God's instructions for how to practice His righteousness, not for how to establish our own. For example, the Torah reveals that helping the poor is a way to testify about God's righteousness, so no amount of helping the poor will ever cause us to become righteous because the one and only way to become righteous is through faith. Indeed, our righteousness is in Christ, which is why those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked in obedience to the Torah.

 

[101G]

Why did you quote that?

First, thank You for the reply. for the OT is just a learning tool. 101G believes this. the OT is the NT REVEALED, and the NT is the OT hidden. what was hidden in ceremonies and sacrifices ect.... is now revealed unto us in Clear understanding, of what to DO, and NOT do.
it is clear as a bell when God by his holy prophet Micah 6:8, said this. "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" do not the command "LOVE ONE ANOTHER" fulfills this?

so why not just post the 10 commandments again? especially the first one, "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." is it not fulfilled in "Love One another?" for if ye Love one another do one not fulfils LOVING GOD? yes, is not MAN in the IMAGE of God and God dwells in him.... US? scripture, 1 Corinthians 6:19 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Corinthians 6:20 "For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

and sacrifices, Hebrews 13:15 "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." see, when 101G, at the start of this post, said, "thank You for the reply" this giving GOD the Glory, not you. for he dwells in you. now if he Manifest in you, well that's to be seen. and yes, God dwells in all of us, the Good the Bad, and the Ugly.... for, Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"

many years ago, that part of the verse got me, "that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh" 101G thought that only the save got the spirit, sinner did not, until they are saved. because "all" is not EVERY unless qualified. and 101G did not see a qualifier in the verse just to limit his spirit given only unto the save only. well 101G had to look in the mirror at himself and found some terrible news. 101G was just as sinful as everyone else who is in ... "HUMAN FLESH". God removed sin from the Land and condemned sin in the flesh. Romans 8:3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:" Romans 8:4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." THIS IS WHY GOD CAME AS THE "HELPER". the Law could not help me it only showed 101G his sin. well thanks be to God he removed sin, and the Law. now with help 101G can walk in righteousness in, in, in, Christ Jesus.

see, 101G learned that from reading the OT just as the LORD said, via his apostle , "what was written afore time is for our learning", why? that we might have hope. so now 101G can now live, not in fear, but in hope, which is his FAITH. for FAITH is the substance of things ......... WHAT? ..... "HOPE FOR". now where do you think 101G got that from? yes, the OT, Habakkuk 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."

now 101G understand why God poured out his spirit on "ALL" flesh. isn't the bible.... "GOOD", meaning "GOD IS GOOD". thank God for the OT and the NEW.

learning curb: why is the LAW not made for 101G? 1 Timothy 1:5 "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:" 1 Timothy 1:6 "From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;" 1 Timothy 1:7 "Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm." 1 Timothy 1:8 "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;" 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," 1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

101G.

 

[atpollard]

Thank you. Messianic Judaism is also practiced by Messianic Gentiles who are welcome to learn how to follow the God of Israel in obedience to the Torah in accordance with the example that Messiah set for us to follow.

I believe this thought must be handled with a great deal of caution.

I have a mentor that describes the "narrow path" as having a ditch on either side and Satan wants nothing more than to run those on the path into one ditch or the other. One ditch is "antinomianism" and"Cheap Grace" [Get saved and live like the world.] and the opposite ditch is "Legalism" [the Pharisaical list of "do and do not" that crush your faith and lead to a works salvation]. Our job is to strive to "drive between the lines" and stay out of the ditches.

The Christian fascination with Judaism opens us up to the SIN of the Judaisers that Paul so violently opposed. Yet, the knowledge of what the Jews of the first century knew, holds out the promise of such richness and depth of insight into the words of Jesus in the Gospels. It is a TREASURE hidden in DANGEROUS waters.

I like Jesus advice ... "Listen to what they have to SAY, but beware of doing what they DO." ... we Gentiles are not Jewish. God did not lead OUR fathers out of Egypt and give us a Law to obey and traditions to obey in remembrance of what He did for OUR fathers. We have a New Covenant [and if Hebrews is to be believed, a BETTER Covenant.] Honor the OLD but embrace the NEW.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[101G]

I believe this thought must be handled with a great deal of caution.

I have a mentor that describes the "narrow path" as having a ditch on either side and Satan wants nothing more than to run those on the path into one ditch or the other. One ditch is "antinomianism" and"Cheap Grace" [Get saved and live like the world.] and the opposite ditch is "Legalism" [the Pharisaical list of "do and do not" that crush your faith and lead to a works salvation]. Our job is to strive to "drive between the lines" and stay out of the ditches.

The Christian fascination with Judaism opens us up to the SIN of the Judaisers that Paul so violently opposed. Yet, the knowledge of what the Jews of the first century knew, holds out the promise of such richness and depth of insight into the words of Jesus in the Gospels. It is a TREASURE hidden in DANGEROUS waters.

I like Jesus advice ... "Listen to what they have to SAY, but beware of doing what they DO." ... we Gentiles are not Jewish. God did not lead OUR fathers out of Egypt and give us a Law to obey and traditions to obey in remembrance of what He did for OUR fathers. We have a New Covenant [and if Hebrews is to be believed, a BETTER Covenant.] Honor the OLD but embrace the NEW.

Just my 2 cents.

good 2 cents. for the Lord Jesus warned us of the danger of Syncretism in his letters to the seven churches

101G

 

[Soyeong]

First, thank You for the reply. for the OT is just a learning tool. 101G believes this. the OT is the NT REVEALED, and the NT is the OT hidden. what was hidden in ceremonies and sacrifices ect.... is now revealed unto us in Clear understanding, of what to DO, and NOT do.

It is worthless to spent time learning something that has no impact in the way that we live, so we should study the Bible to learn what to do, not just to know.

it is clear as a bell when God by his holy prophet Micah 6:8, said this. "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" do not the command "LOVE ONE ANOTHER" fulfills this?

If we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, kidnapping, rape, favoritism, and so forth for everything commanded in the Law of Moses, so love fulfills the Law of Moses because everything in it is in regard to how to love God and our neighbor. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus said that all of the other commandments hang on the greatest two commandments, so they are all connected, and everyone who things that we should obey the greatest two commandments should also think that we should obey all of the other commandments than hang on them. In Matthew 24:12-14, Jesus said that because of lawlessness the love of many will grow cold, so that does not leave room for someone who just wants to obey the command to love while wanting nothing to do with following God's other laws for teaching us how to love.

so why not just post the 10 commandments again? especially the first one, "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." is it not fulfilled in "Love One another?" for if ye Love one another do one not fulfils LOVING GOD? yes, is not MAN in the IMAGE of God and God dwells in him.... US? scripture, 1 Corinthians 6:19 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Corinthians 6:20 "For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

The greatest two commandments are a lot easier said than done, so thankfully God gave us all of the other commandments in the Mosaic Law to paint us a picture of what it looks like to correctly obey the greatest two. In Deuteronomy 6:4-7 and 30:16, the way to love God with all of our heart is by teaching to obey His other commandments.

and sacrifices, Hebrews 13:15 "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." see, when 101G, at the start of this post, said, "thank You for the reply" this giving GOD the Glory, not you. for he dwells in you. now if he Manifest in you, well that's to be seen. and yes, God dwells in all of us, the Good the Bad, and the Ugly.... for, Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"

many years ago, that part of the verse got me, "that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh" 101G thought that only the save got the spirit, sinner did not, until they are saved. because "all" is not EVERY unless qualified. and 101G did not see a qualifier in the verse just to limit his spirit given only unto the save only. well 101G had to look in the mirror at himself and found some terrible news. 101G was just as sinful as everyone else who is in ... "HUMAN FLESH". God removed sin from the Land and condemned sin in the flesh. Romans 8:3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:" Romans 8:4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." THIS IS WHY GOD CAME AS THE "HELPER". the Law could not help me it only showed 101G his sin. well thanks be to God he removed sin, and the Law. now with help 101G can walk in righteousness in, in, in, Christ Jesus.

In regard to Joel 2:28, "all" often times does not refer to every last person on the planet, but can refer to all of a specific group or a large part of a specific group. For example when Matthew 3:5 says that Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him, it is not intending to suggest that there was not a single person in that area who did not go out to see him. Moreover, in Joel 2:28, "all flesh{ is referring to your sons and daughters, your old men, and your young men, and Joel 2:12-27 repeatedly speaks to you/your, so there is a specific group that is being addressed and "all flesh" refers to the people in that group. Likewise, Joel 2:28 should be understood in light on verse 2, where it says that all who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved, for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, and as the Lord has said, among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.

The righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in us through living in obedience to what it instructs, which is why Romans 8:4-7 contrasts those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law.

see, 101G learned that from reading the OT just as the LORD said, via his apostle , "what was written afore time is for our learning", why? that we might have hope. so now 101G can now live, not in fear, but in hope, which is his FAITH. for FAITH is the substance of things ......... WHAT? ..... "HOPE FOR". now where do you think 101G got that from? yes, the OT, Habakkuk 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."

now 101G understand why God poured out his spirit on "ALL" flesh. isn't the bible.... "GOOD", meaning "GOD IS GOOD". thank God for the OT and the NEW.

In Habakkuk 2, it connects the righteous who are living by faith with those who are living in obedience to God in contrast with those who are prideful who are not living in obedience to God, which is in accordance with Isaiah 51 saying that the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it.

learning curb: why is the LAW not made for 101G? 1 Timothy 1:5 "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:" 1 Timothy 1:6 "From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;" 1 Timothy 1:7 "Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm." 1 Timothy 1:8 "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;" 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," 1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

101G.

In Proverbs 4:2, it says behold give you sound doctrine: do not forsake God's law. It is absurd to interpret that passage as saying that a the law is for an unrighteous person, then once they become righteous they can then forsake God's law and can go back to being an unrighteous person that the law is for. In 1 John 3:7, whoever does righteous is righteous even as he is righteous.

 

[Soyeong]

I believe this thought must be handled with a great deal of caution.

I have a mentor that describes the "narrow path" as having a ditch on either side and Satan wants nothing more than to run those on the path into one ditch or the other. One ditch is "antinomianism" and"Cheap Grace" [Get saved and live like the world.] and the opposite ditch is "Legalism" [the Pharisaical list of "do and do not" that crush your faith and lead to a works salvation]. Our job is to strive to "drive between the lines" and stay out of the ditches.

The Christian fascination with Judaism opens us up to the SIN of the Judaisers that Paul so violently opposed. Yet, the knowledge of what the Jews of the first century knew, holds out the promise of such richness and depth of insight into the words of Jesus in the Gospels. It is a TREASURE hidden in DANGEROUS waters.

I like Jesus advice ... "Listen to what they have to SAY, but beware of doing what they DO." ... we Gentiles are not Jewish. God did not lead OUR fathers out of Egypt and give us a Law to obey and traditions to obey in remembrance of what He did for OUR fathers. We have a New Covenant [and if Hebrews is to be believed, a BETTER Covenant.] Honor the OLD but embrace the NEW.

Just my 2 cents.

While I agree that there is a narrow way that leads to life, Jesus said said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28). Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, so he was much more zealous for obedience to it ;than the Pharisees were and he never criticized them for being zealous for following its list of "do and do not" or said that crushes our faith, but he did criticize them them for not following it (Mark 7:6-9) or for not following it correctly (Matthew 23:23). Pharisees also criticized other Pharisees for their hypocrisy, so Jesus was not the only one to do that and people can criticize some of the members of a group without criticizing all of its members or being opposed to the group itself. There is always the danger of false teachers, so right solution to incorrectly practicing Judaism/Christianity is to start practicing it correctly, not to oppose it. Jesus did not say to just listen to what the Pharisees say, but to observe and do whatever they said while warning against following their example of hypocrisy. Jesus spent his ministry teaching how to practice Judaism in obedience to the Torah and following what he taught is not just for Jews, but for Gentiles too, especially because the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33).

Gentiles may not be physical descendants of the Israelites, but the God of Israel taking the Israelites out of Egypt and giving His law teaches us about who He is and all of the followers of the God of Israel should live in a way that testifies about who He is.

 

[atpollard]

Jerusalem Council. ('nuff said)

 

[civic]

I believe this thought must be handled with a great deal of caution.

I have a mentor that describes the "narrow path" as having a ditch on either side and Satan wants nothing more than to run those on the path into one ditch or the other. One ditch is "antinomianism" and"Cheap Grace" [Get saved and live like the world.] and the opposite ditch is "Legalism" [the Pharisaical list of "do and do not" that crush your faith and lead to a works salvation]. Our job is to strive to "drive between the lines" and stay out of the ditches.

The Christian fascination with Judaism opens us up to the SIN of the Judaisers that Paul so violently opposed. Yet, the knowledge of what the Jews of the first century knew, holds out the promise of such richness and depth of insight into the words of Jesus in the Gospels. It is a TREASURE hidden in DANGEROUS waters.

I like Jesus advice ... "Listen to what they have to SAY, but beware of doing what they DO." ... we Gentiles are not Jewish. God did not lead OUR fathers out of Egypt and give us a Law to obey and traditions to obey in remembrance of what He did for OUR fathers. We have a New Covenant [and if Hebrews is to be believed, a BETTER Covenant.] Honor the OLD but embrace the NEW.

Just my 2 cents.

Ditto

 

[Soyeong]

Jerusalem Council. ('nuff said)

Ditto

The Jerusalem Council were servants of God, so they should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying what He has commanded and they didn't have the authority to countermand God even if that is what they were trying to do. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything than any man has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded, though again it doesn't need to come down to that because the Jerusalem Council were servants of God who never spoke against anyone obeying anything that God has commanded.

 

[101G]

It is worthless to spent time learning something that has no impact in the way that we live, so we should study the Bible to learn what to do, not just to know.

your loss.

101G.

 

[Soyeong]

your loss.

101G.

How so?

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Jerusalem Council were servants of God, so they should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying what He has commanded and they didn't have the authority to countermand God even if that is what they were trying to do. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything than any man has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded, though again it doesn't need to come down to that because the Jerusalem Council were servants of God who never spoke against anyone obeying anything that God has commanded.

They told the Gentiles that they did not have to keep the law of Moses. What Edit are you living in?

Act 15:19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,
Act 15:20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

 

[Soyeong]

They told the Gentiles that they did not have to keep the law of Moses. What Edit are you living in?

Act 15:19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,
Act 15:20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

So when God has commanded something and you think that the Jerusalem Council taught to rebel against obeying what God commanded, then should we obey God or man?

Either Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of a mature Gentile believer or it does not, so it is contradictory to treat it as being an exhaustive list to limit which laws Gentiles should follow while also treating it as being a non-exhaustive list by saying that there are obviously other laws that Gentiles should follow, such as the greatest two commandments. Moreover, including the greatest two commandments means including the rest of the Mosaic Law because Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that all of the other commandments hang on the greatest two, so they are all connected. However, Acts 15:19-21 was not intended to be an exhaustive list for mature believers, but rather it was stated as being a list intended to avoid making things too difficult for new believers, which they excused by saying that they would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues.

 

[Matthias]

Messianic Judaism has two branches. One is trinitarian. The other is unitarian. The trinitarian branch is the larger of the two. I’ve spoken with leaders in both branches.

I was involved in an unfortunate incident with one of the main leaders of the unitarian branch in Israel (Uri Marcus). He and I were eating lunch at the same table at a conference we were attending in Atlanta. Everything was going well until our food was served - food which included meat which wasn’t kosher; pork. It wasn’t his fault. It wasn’t my fault. Neither one of us knew beforehand what was on the menu. He was very angry. I thought for a minute that he was going to turn the table over, but he didn’t. To make a short story shorter, we didn’t finish the conversation we were having and he withdrew from the conference a few minutes later.

* Good grief. That’s the second food related story I’ve spoken about tonight. I promise there won’t be a third. Tonight. *

Whenever I recall the incident it inevitably causes me to think about similar incidents which took place in the early church.

 

[Soyeong]

Messianic Judaism has two branches. One is trinitarian. The other is unitarian. The trinitarian branch is the larger of the two. I’ve spoken with leaders in both branches.

I was involved in an unfortunate incident with one of the main leaders of the unitarian branch in Israel (Uri Marcus). He and I were eating lunch at the same table at a conference we were attending in Atlanta. Everything was going well until our food was served - food which included meat which wasn’t kosher; pork. It wasn’t his fault. It wasn’t my fault. Neither one of us knew beforehand what was on the menu. He was very angry. I thought for a minute that he was going to turn the table over, but he didn’t. To make a short story shorter, we didn’t finish the conversation we were having and he withdrew from the conference a few minutes later.

* Good grief. That’s the second food related story I’ve spoken about tonight. I promise there won’t be a third. Tonight. *

Whenever I recall the incident it inevitably causes me to think about similar incidents which took place in the early church.

It is important to distinguish between what the Bible says in regard to what God has commanded and what is it says in regard to man's opinions. Where God has given a command, human opinion must yield, but where God has given no command, only then are we free to have our own opinions. For example, God has commanded against eating pork, but He has not commanded to eat only vegetables, so it is one thing for someone to object to eating pork while it is another thing for people to have disputable opinions where they are judging and resenting each other over whether or not they choose to eat only vegetables (Romans 14:1-3).