Wrong. No one denies you have a choice or that your will is not free.
Where did I say it's up to God to make the choice? Your all over the place. Pick a lane.
What did Christ know and when did He or does He know it
- Thread starter Presby02
- Start date
Where did I say it's up to God to make the choice? Your all over the place. Pick a lane.
It would have also been their choice to receive Christ
Yup, absolutely. Who said anything different?
Calvinism holds they have to be regenerated before they can make that choice.
Yup. They still make a choice before and after regeneration.
MTMattie
Well-known member
I did believe first. it was either just before 1st grade or shortly after.
Why? Well... Proverbs 22:6 is a word of truth, truly spoken.
Then? My confirmation... (my public profession of faith came when I was about 12)
MTMattie
Well-known member
You are a predestined believer... you have said
According to you you do not have the choice to accept or reject what you learned about faith from anywhere until after your new birth... and they if you learned of faith it would be too late to change your mind.... else you were not regenerated first before you believed as you just said.
You are the one all over the place .... We will Free will know exactly where we stand.
Great.
I never said that but yes, I do believe all the elect to be so.
Sure you do. Before regeneration you have rejected the truth, by choice, until God decides otherwise if at all.
You keep bringing up free will. I believe in free will, I believe we make choices.
In Calvinism they cannot make a positive choice to believe. That is an error
Sure they can. They have the natural ability to make that choice. They do not have the moral ability nor the desire to. Hence, God must act or leave you to your own desires.
MTMattie
Well-known member
They do not have the moral ability nor the desire to.
So they cannot make the choice. It is pre-decided for them.... But what about the rest of their family?
BTW... another question. Not only does no one talk about the when, where, and how repentance fits into this predestined thing..... because no one is willing to even say if the faith bestowed on people by God's selection and tapping them at the appropriate time...... ( so repentance hits a back burner...... When do you people fit baptism into your road to salvation? And why?
As we all know it was in the bible... and we all know it is to be public.... ( except the eunuch got a break and his was private)... Wny7?
Why give a public testimony to an act that one has no control over. How many people looking on and hearing the words Baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit wont make it . It that not in a way cruel?
When a Calvin baby is baptized, that baby is baptized in the in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit... and it is a public baptism.... NEVER PRIVATE.... BECAUSE not just the parents but the entire congregation is charged with raising the child correctly in the faith until they are of age to be confirmed.... There is a reason for the Calvin baby.
A RCC baby baptism is pretty much the same.... we all are charged with getting the kid off on the right foot before they have their first Holy Communion.
What about you predestined believers in general. Calvin or other. When and why for your public baptism.... Is it as simple as to say to all that
god picked you?
that whole predestined plan has a lot of unanswered gaps in it and no one seems to have an answer.
MTMattie
Well-known member
You did. You are talking about either Calvinism or predestination. I say or because there are some that believe in predestination but not the Calvin view of things.
If you are predestined ...FROM BEFORE TIME BEGAN.... which is the general understanding... then it is pre-decided because one has no say in
if they are one of the elect or not. That is pre- decided because it came about before birth.
Everything about predestination or Calvinism or free will has to do with when and how someone will be saved or lost.
And you cannot talk of any belief such as predestination or Calvinism or free will with out the entire picture being discussed.
The entire picture on salvation.... concerning where our eternity will be spent or if we get tossed into the flames and destroyed ultimately
has to center on repentance (when and how) and Baptism... for baptism is through out the holy scriptures.
the only thing you seem to be focused on is if you are in the flesh you cannot please God.
Yet when I have asked you how one gets out of the flesh you reply with if you are in the flesh you cannot please God.
And that is because you do not know. period.
In the meantime... it all is incorporated importance... and that keeps it in focus.
If you dont understand... put me on ignore and you wont have to read me anymore.... because it is clear you only have one thought for your one track mind.
I do not put people on ignore.
So educate me. How does one get into the Spirit and out of the flesh?
MTMattie
Well-known member
You have to be born again spiritually.
Behold
Well-known member
First of all.......when the NT speaks about "flesh", it not talking about your body.
Its referring to being carnally minded......and that means, that the mind is not renewed, which means its "in the flesh".
So, when Paul says........."you are in the flesh"........He means......you are in a carnal mind, and that mind cannot understand or receive anything from the spirit of God. (bible).
So, a carnally minded person, looks at the bible like its a dictionary. They read it, trying to use human thinking (analysis and logic).. to understand it, and that can't succeed.
So, how does one get into the "spirit".
A.) Jesus said......""YOU, (everyone) must be born again"... = Spiritually, as that is how you "get in" the spirit.
However this does not deal with the human thought process, that remains carnal... so, what you have to do, is fill your mind with the "spiritual", and that means....... bible study and meditative prayer........so that God can give you "inner" revelation.. .as that is how a CHRISTian, learns the bible. along with finding an excellent NT teacher who can show you so much, and grow you quickly "in the spirit".
Agreed.
That does not change the fact that one cannot please God while in the flesh. Not tension no one said it was referring to flesh.
So you simply assume everyone must always be carnally minded?
