What did Christ know and when did He or does He know it

[civic]

@civic @Johann

I think the Lev 16:5,8-10 gives us insight to the two goats on the Day of Atonement.

Both goats serve as the single sin offering.
Lev 16:5 'And from the company of the sons of Israel he taketh two kids of the goats for a sin-offering, and one ram for a burnt-offering;

Lev 16:8-9 'And Aaron hath given lots over the two goats, one lot for Jehovah, and one lot for a goat of departure (removal); (9) and Aaron hath brought near the goat on which the lot for Jehovah hath gone up, and hath made it a sin-offering.

The goat that was not slain is still part of the single sin offering
Lev 16:10 'And the goat on which the lot for a goat of departure hath gone up is caused to stand living before Jehovah to make atonement by it, to send it away for a goat of departure (removal) into the wilderness.

I think we can surmise the blood from goat that was slain provided forgiveness of sins, for without blood there is no forgiveness of sin.

And the goat that was kept alive and serving as part of the single sin offering on this Day illustrates to the people the guilt of their sins have been carried away from them.

The Day of Atonement is significant that it represents God's giving of His Son for our sins, to atone by His innocent blood providing for our complete forgiveness and the removal of sin's guilt from our conscience that we may serve God.

The Day that Jesus died for our sins on a cross and carried away our sins is in essence the Day of Atonement, with God being the One who laid upon Him the sins of us all. We are literally in God's presence and He in ours. We are joined in spirit, one. Forgiven with no guilt of sin! Praise our Living God who loves us and has such wondrous mercy!

1Jn 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

1Pe 2:24 who Himself bore (took away, carried) our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

God Bless

I will have to chew on this and thanks for your response brother.

 

[Joe]

@civic @Johann

I think the Lev 16:5,8-10 gives us insight to the two goats on the Day of Atonement.

Both goats serve as the single sin offering.
Lev 16:5 'And from the company of the sons of Israel he taketh two kids of the goats for a sin-offering, and one ram for a burnt-offering;

Lev 16:8-9 'And Aaron hath given lots over the two goats, one lot for Jehovah, and one lot for a goat of departure (removal); (9) and Aaron hath brought near the goat on which the lot for Jehovah hath gone up, and hath made it a sin-offering.

The goat that was not slain is still part of the single sin offering
Lev 16:10 'And the goat on which the lot for a goat of departure hath gone up is caused to stand living before Jehovah to make atonement by it, to send it away for a goat of departure (removal) into the wilderness.

I think we can surmise the blood from goat that was slain provided forgiveness of sins, for without blood there is no forgiveness of sin.

And the goat that was kept alive and serving as part of the single sin offering on this Day illustrates to the people the guilt of their sins have been carried away from them.

The Day of Atonement is significant that it represents God's giving of His Son for our sins, to atone by His innocent blood providing for our complete forgiveness and the removal of sin's guilt from our conscience that we may serve God.

The Day that Jesus died for our sins on a cross and carried away our sins is in essence the Day of Atonement, with God being the One who laid upon Him the sins of us all. We are literally in God's presence and He in ours. We are joined in spirit, one. Forgiven with no guilt of sin! Praise our Living God who loves us and has such wondrous mercy!

1Jn 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

1Pe 2:24 who Himself bore (took away, carried) our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

God Bless

Hi Brother,

I think we find many typologies in the OT that serve as the realities in our Lord.

The Apostle Paul gives us some detail in Hebrews 10:1-18 concerning the offering of our Lord.

He begins by making this statement, (Heb 10:1) "For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near."

The law serves as a shadow, a typology of the good things to come. I wouldn't necessarily expect to see the exact same pattern done in the Old Testament to be done in the New Testament. But we should be able to perceive the same concept with like intended purposes, although much more magnificent and glorious in the New Testament.

God Bless

 

[Presby02]

Brother,

I agree, but the concept is there between a covenant and trust, and I used trust since it is simpler to understand in our age.

​

A trust is a legal arrangement where a grantor gives a trustee the right to manage assets for the benefit of a beneficiary. The trustee has a fiduciary duty to act in the best interest of the beneficiaries according to the grantor of the trust​

A covenant is an agreement between parties. In the New covenant God justified everyone to life in the death of His Son and appointed His Son to be the mediator/administrator of His New Covenant with mankind.​

What you said is true, but in order to receive the free gift of justification one must do something. That something is act upon faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. God laid the sins of us all, everyone, on His Son who carried them away in His body on the cross. In order to receive this wonderful grace one must hear the Good News and believe it. If one does not, they die in their sins for the gift must be received by faith. There is no automatic justification in the New Covenant; this would be universalism.

God gave a New covenant to all mankind and set the parameters. A covenant is a binding agreement between parties. If you desire to enter into the New Covenant agreement with God, you must repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, who then He gives one the right to become a child of God.

Jesus is the mediator/administrator of the New Covenant, "that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all"

The new Covenant is where "declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.” Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin."

God has justified to life everyone in the sacrificial death of His Son. This justification must be received by faith. No faith no free gift.

The Apostle Paul makes it clear in 1 Cor 5:10-21 these points.

• All mankind must appear before the judgement seat of Jesus Christ: "we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. "
• Jesus Christ died for all mankind because all were dead, and He died for all so they would live for Him: "because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again."
• We who live our life for Him who died for us, no longer judge anyone by the flesh (for Christ has died to save them, They are His): "Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer."
• If anyone believes in Jesus they are made new: "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."
• All of this is from God who reconciled us to Himself who gave the ministry of reconciliation: "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,"
• The ministry of reconciliation: "that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation."
• As authorized representatives of God, as though God were pleading through us: "Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God."
• For Jesus Christ who never sinned offered His life for our sins to make us right with God: "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

It is impossible to separate the facts that Jesus Christ died for everyone, according to the will of God who laid upon Him the sins of us all-everyone.
That He died for all so they would live for Him and be made a new person.
That all of this is from God.
That God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.
That God made His sinless Son a sin offering for us to make us right with Him (to justify us to life with His Son).


Note: In my prior post I stated, "This means God gave Him irrevocably for our sins making us justified in His sight."

I hurriedly left out "being received by faith" at the end of the sentence. It should be, "This means God gave Him irrevocably for our sins making us justified in His sight, being received by faith".

God Bless

If you "must do something" its no longer by grace.

Belief and repentance are granted by God.

By faith, not because of faith?

 

[Presby02]

the opposite of Jesus who died , pored out His blood and was seen man many over 40 days.

Sin is the topic. Stay focused

 

[civic]

Sin is the topic. Stay focused

Atonement is the topic which deals with sin stay focused

And Merry Christmas brother

 

[Joe]

If you "must do something" its no longer by grace.

Belief and repentance are granted by God.

By faith, not because of faith?

Same old conundrum.

Did you call out in faith or did God do that for you?

It was you. So you did something. Either you participated or you did not. If you did not then it was not your faith, your mouth, or your repentance-change of mind it was all God. If not you, then how can you be saved if someone else was doing what you must do to be saved?

Welcome to the conundrum you have placed yourself in.

God Bless

 

[civic]

Same old conundrum.

Did you call out in faith or did God do that for you?

It was you. So you did something. Either you participated or you did not. If you did not then it was not your faith, your mouth, or your repentance-change of mind it was all God. If not you, then how can you be saved if someone else was doing what you must do to be saved?

Welcome to the conundrum you have placed yourself in.

God Bless

yes the big pickle

 

[Presby02]

Same old conundrum.

Did you call out in faith or did God do that for you?

It was you. So you did something. Either you participated or you did not. If you did not then it was not your faith, your mouth, or your repentance-change of mind it was all God. If not you, then how can you be saved if someone else was doing what you must do to be saved?

Welcome to the conundrum you have placed yourself in.

God Bless

When i called out in faith, faith was already present. See Romans 10. Faith is alreay present when I call upon the Lord.

There is no conundrum. Wishful thinking

 

[Presby02]

Atonement is the topic which deals with sin stay focused

And Merry Christmas brother

Sub topic. The topic is sin. Your deflecting.

Merry belated Christmas and Happy New Year!!

 

[Dizerner]

If you "must do something" its no longer by grace.

Calvinists and Free Gracers make the same fundamental logical mistake, this is why they both accuse each other of back loading works. They insist that if action X produces result Y that necessarily means it was merited. This is a non sequitur. There is such a thing as a non meritorious work, an action that produces a result without earning it, such as receiving a gift.

 

[Presby02]

Calvinists and Free Gracers make the same fundamental logical mistake, this is why they both accuse each other of back loading works. They insist that if action X produces result Y that necessarily means it was merited. This is a non sequitur. There is such a thing as a non meritorious work, an action that produces a result without earning it, such as receiving a gift.

If your saved because you did something then you "earnrd" it. You are rewarded.

 

[Dizerner]

If your saved because you did something then you "earnrd" it. You are rewarded.

This is a non sequitur, an illogical assertion, the conclusion does not follow from the premises.

It would be like saying, "Because the sun is hot, all cats are very evil."

 

[civic]

Sub topic. The topic is sin. Your deflecting.

Merry belated Christmas and Happy New Year!!

Same to you my friend happy new year

 

[Presby02]

This is a non sequitur, an illogical assertion, the conclusion does not follow from the premises.

It would be like saying, "Because the sun is hot, all cats are very evil."

No its not. Its called reality. Join us here in the real world.

What is saying is if you fo this you get this. Do you jave to believe yo be saved?? So if you choose to believe you are rewarded with eternal life no?? What is the difference between you and your unbelieving neighbor? Gods grace or your choice to believe??

 

[Presby02]

Same to you my friend happy new year

 

[praise_yeshua]

What is the difference between you and your unbelieving neighbor? Gods grace or your choice to believe??

Both.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Open Theists, did Christ know who He loved and died for on the cross? Or did He die for a nameless, faceless people who He could not know would ever exist?

Simple. Christ died for every ancestor of Adam and Eve. Every single one of them.

Do you have a new name or not?

 

[Presby02]

Simple. Christ died for every ancestor of Adam and Eve. Every single one of them.

Do you have a new name or not?

Nope. No He did not.

 

[Presby02]

Both.

Both? How so?

 

[civic]

No its not. Its called reality. Join us here in the real world.

What is saying is if you fo this you get this. Do you jave to believe yo be saved?? So if you choose to believe you are rewarded with eternal life no?? What is the difference between you and your unbelieving neighbor? Gods grace or your choice to believe??

false dichotomy fallacy alert