Were the Men of Sodom Homosexual?

[Complete]

' ... ... And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes
condemned them with an overthrow,
making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing,
vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds )
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
But chiefly them that walk after the flesh
in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government.
Presumptuous are they, selfwilled,
they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might,
bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed,
speak evil of the things that they understand not;
and shall utterly perish in their own corruption'
(2Pet. 2:6-12)

Hello @101G,

I have read Judges 19-21, and Genesis 19,

Peter tells us that Lot was a 'Just man'. He sought to take his place among the society that He had chosen to dwell among by taking a place at the city gate, where advise, and judgement were sought, possibly hoping in doing so to bring about a change by example, for he was horrified at what he saw and heard since living among them: For the deeds he witnessed were unlawful and unjust.

When the men of Sodom sought to have the angels brought out to them from Lot's home, Lot offered his daughters to them, which in itself was an act of desperation: For it must have been obvious to him what they desired. They sought sexual gratification of the worst kind, which would have brought about moral destruction to those so violated. In offering his daughters he was directing them away from the perversion they contemplated, into a natural means of gratification, of a man with a woman, for it was the lesser of the evils sought. His daughters though grossly abused, would not have been morally destroyed by their perversity, as the angels under Lots care would have been.

This is my own understanding at best.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[101G]

You're saying that Lot offered his daughters to be killed then?

first thanks for the reply. let's see what the scriptures states. Genesis 19:7 "And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly." Genesis 19:8 "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof."
now this in Hosea 4:13 "They sacrifice upon the tops of the mountains, and burn incense upon the hills, under oaks and poplars and elms, because the shadow thereof is good: therefore your daughters shall commit whoredom, and your spouses shall commit adultery." Hosea 4:14 "I will not punish your daughters when they commit whoredom, nor your spouses when they commit adultery: for themselves are separated with whores, and they sacrifice with harlots: therefore the people that doth not understand shall fall."
we can understand this better in Judges chapter 19 when a Levite goes to Beth-lehem to fetch home his concubine who played the whore against him. and NOTE: Hosea 4:14 "I will not punish your daughters when they commit whoredom". that word PUNISH say a lot. because another word for punish is "BRUSE". and if one will note in Judged chapter 19, this concubine was offered with a maiden of the old man who took the Levite in. now Maden here is a virgin,
Maden: H1330 בְּתוּלָה bthuwlah (beth-oo-law') n-f.
1. a virgin (from her privacy).
2. (sometimes, by continuation) a bride.
3. (figuratively) a city or state.
[feminine passive participle of an unused root meaning to separate]
KJV: maid, virgin.

but only the concubine was taken but not the VIRGIN, scripture, Judges 19:23 "And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly." Judges 19:24 "Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing." Judges 19:25 "But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go."
the same thing as was in the Lot scenario, but here only the concubine was taken, and not the virgin ..... WHY, a virgin represent "purity", or Innocent's. so the question still stand WHY? 101G will offer a reason, and not an interpretation. in Hosea 4:14 "I will not punish your daughters when they commit whoredom". but there is a reason, "for themselves are separated with whores". as here in Judges this was done. but it never got that far, in Lot case. but what is so important is the term "punish". notr it's another word for bruise. where have we see this word used at in conjunction with a "WOMAN? " scripture, Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

here another word for "bruise" as said, is "punish". this is what the Men of Sodom who surrounded Lot house had in mind to do. for the term "KNOW" in Genesis 19:5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them."
KNOW: H3045 יָדַע yada` (yaw-dah') v.
1. (properly) to ascertain by seeing.
2. (generally) to know.
3. (used widely) to observe, care, recognize, etc.
4. (causatively, used widely) to instruct, designate, punish, etc.
{used in a great variety of senses: figuratively, literally, euphemistically, inferentially, and causatively.}
[a primitive root]
KJV: acknowledge, acquaintance(-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, (un-)awares, can(-not), certainly, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be (ig-)norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have (knowledge), (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have (understanding), X will be, wist, wit, wot.
THERE IS OUR WORD, "punish" as was in Judges chapter 19 with the concubine, because she was beaten to DEATH. Judges 19:25 "But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." BUT SHE DIEAD, Judges 19:27 "And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold."
so, with the term "PUNISH", and "ABUSE" identifies what the men in Lot case, match the same, for the term abused means,
H5953 עָלַל `alal (aw-lal') v.
1. to effect thoroughly.
2. (specifically) to glean (also figuratively).
3. (by implication) (in a bad sense) to overdo, i.e. maltreat, be saucy to, pain, impose (also literal).
[a primitive root]
KJV: abuse, affect, X child, defile, do, glean, mock, practise, thoroughly, work (wonderfully).

this is what "deal worse" means in Genesis 19:9 "And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door." instead of just ruffing up the men to bring forth information as to WHY they the two strangers was in the city for, but now since Lot wanted to protect them, the men of Sodom said we will deal worse with you instead of what we had in mind for the strangers. just what happen to to concubine.

You're saying that Lot offered his daughters to be killed then?

Since angels are (as you say and I agree) immortal, why didn't Lot just send the angels out and let the evil men engage in utter futility

remember these Men, (angels), was under Lot roof, meaning protection. but the angels intervene with the blindness of the men.

101G

 

[101G]

This response seems very weak to me.
Can I ask - did you grow up among liberals? It's not a political question per se. The reason I ask is we are all influenced by politics to some extent. Is it possible you had an a priori view that makes you want to diminish what otherwise seems to be plainly taught? I know you said you weren't speaking to whether homosexual behavior is wrong, but let's face it, this topic would not be so important to you if you did not intend to soften homosexuality's wrongness.

read 101G post https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/were-the-men-of-sodom-homosexual.2578/post-173778

and see the section KNOW vs KNEW.

101G

 

[DavidTree]

Something tells me there is more to his then we shall ever know.
We all have our opinions when it comes to things like predestination V free will, or if baptism saves, etc.

But something from so many centuries before Christ, even... that caused God to destroy them... and then someone living today, to say it wasn't that...it was other things... because they never did that...

In the first place. When all of mankind who has heard that story comes away with thinking Uh oh... I best be careful.. that is an abomination.... Not , mind you, that one may be a homosexual... for if they abstain they are fine... but the actual act...even between a husband and wife.... EWE....

If one knows it is an abomination, why would one defend those accused by saying they had not done that... when it is obvious that there were other things they did caused their destruction.... why get so heated over this idea? It makes no sense.

Anyone ?

Expect more fallen angels as we get closer to the Lord's Coming.

They are already here but in a different capacity then in Noah's day.

 

[101G]

And a preterist to boot.

So the Sons of God in Genesis were not the fallen angels?

"And a preterist to boot." are you a preterist?

"So the Sons of God in Genesis were not the fallen angels?", 101G know this.

The traditional view of both pre-Christian Judaism and the early church was that the “sons of God” were spirit beings/angels who took human wives and produced giants known as the Nephilim.

If you are one who holds to them being the offspring of Seth.... who married and mated the daughters of man....
Where did the Nephilim come from?

101G hold neither view, but 101G by scripture know where the Nephilim come from. we suggest you read https://berean-apologetics.communit...f-god-because-created-by-god.2470/post-158472


101G

BTW... "Knew" is the past tense of the verb "know," which means to have been aware of or familiar with something in the past.

In the Bible, the terms "knew" or "know" often refer to sexual relations, particularly in the context of the Hebrew word "yada," which implies an intimate knowledge that includes sexual connotation. For example, in Genesis, it states that "Adam knew Eve," indicating their sexual relationship.

BINGO, thanks for making 101G point. you said, "Knew" is the past tense of the verb "know," which means to have been aware of or familiar with something in the past". so, did the men of Sodom "KNOW" theses two men, (angels), before? ... answer NO. case closed.

now side note. base on what you said about KNEW, LISTEN, Genesis 4:1 "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD." THIS MEANS THAT HE HAD ... "KNOWN" .... HER BEFORE. when in the Garden. Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
HERE, Conception is H2032 הֵרוֹן herown (hay-rone') n-m.
הֵרָיוֹן herayown (hay-raw-yone')
pregnancy.
[from H2029]
KJV: conception.
Root(s): H2029

and SORROW: H6093 עִצָּבוֹן `itstsabown (its-tsaw-ɓone') n-m.
worrisomeness, i.e. labor or pain.
[from H6087]
KJV: sorrow, toil.
Root(s): H6087

Labor pain. and God said he will multiply or INCREASE both. meaning she Eve had these. because one cannot multiply or INCREASE something unless it has already happen. this is why 101G know and understand who the sons of God are in Genesis chapter 6 who are called the Nephilim. is this not too easy.

101G

 

[101G]

Hello @101G,

I have read Judges 19-21, and Genesis 19,

Peter tells us that Lot was a 'Just man'. He sought to take his place among the society that He had chosen to dwell among by taking a place at the city gate, where advise, and judgement were sought, possibly hoping in doing so to bring about a change by example, for he was horrified at what he saw and heard since living among them: For the deeds he witnessed were unlawful and unjust.

101G agree. but.......

When the men of Sodom sought to have the angels brought out to them from Lot's home, Lot offered his daughters to them, which in itself was an act of desperation: For it must have been obvious to him what they desired. They sought sexual gratification of the worst kind, which would have brought about moral destruction to those so violated. In offering his daughters he was directing them away from the perversion they contemplated, into a natural means of gratification, of a man with a woman, for it was the lesser of the evils sought. His daughters though grossly abused, would not have been morally destroyed by their perversity, as the two angels under Lots care would have been.

This is my own understanding at best.

thanks for your OPINION. .... 101G do not totally agree with your assessment. but thanks again.

101G.

 

[101G]

Expect more fallen angels as we get closer to the Lord's Coming.

They are already here but in a different capacity then in Noah's day.

but angels do not mate with earthly women. neither the fallen or the none fallen, there is a difference in nature. scripture, Matthew 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." and as for the fallen angels, that are in chains, Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." they never laid with women. and we know that there were Nephilim/Mighty men, GIANTS after the flood, and we can trace every ... GIANT .... to human parents.... no angelic intervention.

101G.

 

[Complete]

but angels do not mate with earthly women.​

'And it came to pass,
when men began to multiply on the face of the earth,
and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God (angels) saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose.'
(Gen 6:1-2)

'There were giants in the earth in those days;
and also after that, when the sons of God (angels) came in
unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them,
the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.'
(Gen 6:4)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[DavidTree]

'And it came to pass,
when men began to multiply on the face of the earth,
and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God (angels) saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose.'
(Gen 6:1-2)

'There were giants in the earth in those days;
and also after that, when the sons of God (angels) came in
unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them,
the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.'
(Gen 6:4)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

i guess @101G does not understand what 'marriage' entails and the phrase "came in unto the daughters of men"

 

[civic]

i guess @101G does not understand what 'marriage' entails and the phrase "came in unto the daughters of men"

Ditto

 

[101G]

i guess @101G does not understand what 'marriage' entails and the phrase "came in unto the daughters of men"

Dave ... don't GUESS, "Know", read 101G posts.... first... ok.

101G.

 

[DavidTree]

Dave ... don't GUESS, "Know", read 101G posts.... first... ok.

101G.

Genesis 4:1 "Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain,"

Adam "knew" his wife and 9 months later, out popped Cain = How did they do that from just "knowing"???

Who knew? = Adam knew

 

[101G]

Genesis 4:1 "Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain,"

Adam "knew" his wife and 9 months later, out popped Cain = How did they do that from just "knowing"???

Who knew? = Adam knew

Knew is the Act, and not the gestation period.... my God Dave think

101G.

 

[DavidTree]

Knew is the Act, and not the gestation period.... my God Dave think

101G.

Who "knew" ? .................Adam knew

The "sons of God" also "knew" the daughters of men = "they came into them"

Go figure

 

[DavidTree]

Knew is the Act, and not the gestation period.... my God Dave think

101G.

Post 272 includes the "gestation period"

Why did the fallen angels/sons of God come to earth to play the 'dating game'???

 

[101G]

Post 272 includes the "gestation period"

Why did the fallen angels/sons of God come to earth to play the 'dating game'???

Dave, Dave,.................... that's ok, just stay where you are at. YIKES!

101G.

 

[DavidTree]

Dave, Dave,.................... that's ok, just stay where you are at. YIKES!

101G.

i am stayed in CHRIST and the Holy Spirit and the Holy Scriptures

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

 

[101G]

Every word of God is pure

Good, where in the word of God that says the men of Sodom were homosexual. scripture please.

101G.

 

[DavidTree]

Good, where in the word of God that says the men of Sodom were homosexual. scripture please.

101G.

i am sure others have posted it for you, nevertheless here it is: Jude 1:5-7

But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[DavidTree]

Good, where in the word of God that says the men of Sodom were homosexual. scripture please.

101G.

i posted the scripture for fallen angels/sons of god from Jude

the homosexual content of S&D is 'self evident' in the scripture when the crowd demanded the 'two men' be brought outside that the perverse homosexuals may "know" them.

homos wanted to know
the men/angels that came for Lot
"we want the men" they shouted
for their perverse desires
God gave them cleansing fires
nuked from the angels there ashes blew in the wind
keep your manhood private and you will not sin