Turning from sin

360watt

Active member
When a lost person is presented with the gospel, we say 'repent' and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Repent.. is a change of mind, heart. It's not a behaviour of cleaning your life up.

It's going from unbelief to belief..not 'Turning from sins'.

It could only mean turning from sins if it was acknowledging you are a sinner in need of grace and then believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Discipleship, following God's commands, submission.. etc... all are what we should do as works... but AFTER first getting saved!

There is nothing behaviour wise a lost person can do to receive eternal life. It's all Jesus leading and convicting.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal salvation. That is it! Not believe and promise to do good works or promise to be a disciple or promise to submit. That's mixing YOUR effort into getting saved.

So turning from sins is a great thing. But a lost person can't do that! They can go from unbelief to belief, and that's all. They can turn from sins after conversion seeing they are freed from them.
 
When a lost person is presented with the gospel, we say 'repent' and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Repent.. is a change of mind, heart. It's not a behaviour of cleaning your life up.

It's going from unbelief to belief..not 'Turning from sins'.

It could only mean turning from sins if it was acknowledging you are a sinner in need of grace and then believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Discipleship, following God's commands, submission.. etc... all are what we should do as works... but AFTER first getting saved!

There is nothing behaviour wise a lost person can do to receive eternal life. It's all Jesus leading and convicting.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal salvation. That is it! Not believe and promise to do good works or promise to be a disciple or promise to submit. That's mixing YOUR effort into getting saved.

So turning from sins is a great thing. But a lost person can't do that! They can go from unbelief to belief, and that's all. They can turn from sins after conversion seeing they are freed from them.

Wouldn't they be turning from unbelief - which is itself a sin (the sin of unbelief) - to belief?
So in a way they are turning from sin.
 
When a lost person is presented with the gospel, we say 'repent'
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).

and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Bible repeatedly connects our belief in God with our obedience to Him. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law. In James 2:18, he would show his faith by his works. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In John 3:36, it equates obeying Jesus with believing in him. In Psalms 119:30, he chose the way of faith by setting God's law before him. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is an example of works. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience to God's law is referred to as breaking faith. In Hebrews 3:18-19, disobedience to God's law is equated with unbelief. The list goes on.

The way that we choose to live testifies about what we believe to be true about God's character. For example, our good works win obedience to God's law testify about His goodness and by testifying about God's goodness, we are also expressing the belief that He is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him, which again is why there are many verses that connect our obedience to God with our obedience to Him. The way to believe that God is just is by being doers of justice, the way to beloved that God is holy is by following His law for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth for other aspects of God's character, while it would be contradictory for someone to believe that God is a doer of righteous works while they are not. In other words, the way to believe in God is by believing that we ought to be in His image by being doers of His character traits.

Repent.. is a change of mind, heart. It's not a behaviour of cleaning your life up.
Our actions are in accordance with what is in our minds and hearts.

It's going from unbelief to belief..not 'Turning from sins'.
Whatever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23), whatever is in transgression of God's law is sin (1 John 3:4), and whatever is in transgression of God's law is not of faith.

It could only mean turning from sins if it was acknowledging you are a sinner in need of grace and then believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.
In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

Discipleship, following God's commands, submission.. etc... all are what we should do as works... but AFTER first getting saved!
In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so it is not the case that we are required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and it is not the case that we are required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works it itself part of the content of His gift of salvation.

There is nothing behaviour wise a lost person can do to receive eternal life. It's all Jesus leading and convicting.
The Bible is abundantly clear that obedience to God's law is the way to inherit eternal life (Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Deuteronomy 32:46-47, Proverbs 3:18, Proverbs 6:23, Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28, Revelation 22:14, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 2:6-7, Romans 6:19-23). God's way is the way to doers of His character traits, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19). In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to have the experience of knowing God and Jesus through being doers of His character traits, which is the gift of eternal life (John 17:3). The many verses that say that the way to inherit eternal life is by believing in Jesus along with the verses that I've cited that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying God's law confirms that God's law is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus, or in other words, obeying God's word is the way to believe in God's way made flesh.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal salvation. That is it! Not believe and promise to do good works or promise to be a disciple or promise to submit. That's mixing YOUR effort into getting saved.
Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to think that we are saved through believing in him, but not through believing in God's word. Someone that is relying on our on effort to become saved would not involve relying on anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that relying on God's instructions is mixing in our own effort. There is a difference between works that we are required to have done first in order to attain something first and works that we are required to do in order to have the experience of doing something.

For example, the content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour, where the gift requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where the fact that they are required to do that work in order to have that experience does not detract from the fact that opportunity to drive it was given to them as a free gift. In a similarly manner, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing God's and Jesus and the gift of His law is His instructions for how to have that experience through being doers of His character traits.

So turning from sins is a great thing. But a lost person can't do that! They can go from unbelief to belief, and that's all. They can turn from sins after conversion seeing they are freed from them.
Unbelief is synonymous with sin while believe in synonymous with obedience to God's law. The significance of obeying God's law is not that it is part of something that we are required to have done first in order to earn our salvation as the result, but that it is expressing our faith, and it is by that faith that we are being saved. In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong by obeying His instructions in all of our ways and He will make our path straight, so this is what it means to trust in God. God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in His instructions and it is contradictory for someone to think that we should trust in God for salvation, but not in His instructions.
 
Which works of the law did the thief on the cross do to inherit eternal life?
In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, in Galatians 3:1-2, it denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to God. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said in Romans 3:31 that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12. Someone can still be a doer of God's law through faith while being physically prevented from doing that.
 
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).


The Bible repeatedly connects our belief in God with our obedience to Him. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law. In James 2:18, he would show his faith by his works. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In John 3:36, it equates obeying Jesus with believing in him. In Psalms 119:30, he chose the way of faith by setting God's law before him. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is an example of works. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience to God's law is referred to as breaking faith. In Hebrews 3:18-19, disobedience to God's law is equated with unbelief. The list goes on.

The way that we choose to live testifies about what we believe to be true about God's character. For example, our good works win obedience to God's law testify about His goodness and by testifying about God's goodness, we are also expressing the belief that He is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him, which again is why there are many verses that connect our obedience to God with our obedience to Him. The way to believe that God is just is by being doers of justice, the way to beloved that God is holy is by following His law for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth for other aspects of God's character, while it would be contradictory for someone to believe that God is a doer of righteous works while they are not. In other words, the way to believe in God is by believing that we ought to be in His image by being doers of His character traits.


Our actions are in accordance with what is in our minds and hearts.


Whatever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23), whatever is in transgression of God's law is sin (1 John 3:4), and whatever is in transgression of God's law is not of faith.


In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.


In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so it is not the case that we are required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and it is not the case that we are required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works it itself part of the content of His gift of salvation.


The Bible is abundantly clear that obedience to God's law is the way to inherit eternal life (Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Deuteronomy 32:46-47, Proverbs 3:18, Proverbs 6:23, Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28, Revelation 22:14, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 2:6-7, Romans 6:19-23). God's way is the way to doers of His character traits, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19). In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to have the experience of knowing God and Jesus through being doers of His character traits, which is the gift of eternal life (John 17:3). The many verses that say that the way to inherit eternal life is by believing in Jesus along with the verses that I've cited that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying God's law confirms that God's law is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus, or in other words, obeying God's word is the way to believe in God's way made flesh.


Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to think that we are saved through believing in him, but not through believing in God's word. Someone that is relying on our on effort to become saved would not involve relying on anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that relying on God's instructions is mixing in our own effort. There is a difference between works that we are required to have done first in order to attain something first and works that we are required to do in order to have the experience of doing something.

For example, the content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour, where the gift requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where the fact that they are required to do that work in order to have that experience does not detract from the fact that opportunity to drive it was given to them as a free gift. In a similarly manner, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing God's and Jesus and the gift of His law is His instructions for how to have that experience through being doers of His character traits.


Unbelief is synonymous with sin while believe in synonymous with obedience to God's law. The significance of obeying God's law is not that it is part of something that we are required to have done first in order to earn our salvation as the result, but that it is expressing our faith, and it is by that faith that we are being saved. In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong by obeying His instructions in all of our ways and He will make our path straight, so this is what it means to trust in God. God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in His instructions and it is contradictory for someone to think that we should trust in God for salvation, but not in His instructions.

You've used alot of words here as usual, but following laws isn't how to be given eternal life.

We obey God's will, which is firstly to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life.

It also is not guaranteed a believer, once converted, will be a faithful Christian.

My membership to my biological family doesn't change with my obedience or lack of it. A parent would discipline a child, but their status as their child stays matter what. The same is true with being a member of God's Family. The blood bought status as a child of God is stronger than a biological one. It's not bound by death.

What it comes down to is initially being converted vs daily exercise of faith.

You always seem to mix these up.
 
You've used alot of words here as usual, but following laws isn't how to be given eternal life.

We obey God's will, which is firstly to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life.
I've used a lot of words because there are many verses that are contrary to you position, including this paragraph:

The Bible is abundantly clear that obedience to God's law is the way to inherit eternal life (Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Deuteronomy 32:46-47, Proverbs 3:18, Proverbs 6:23, Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28, Revelation 22:14, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 2:6-7, Romans 6:19-23). God's way is the way to doers of His character traits, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19). In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to have the experience of knowing God and Jesus through being doers of His character traits, which is the gift of eternal life (John 17:3). The many verses that say that the way to inherit eternal life is by believing in Jesus along with the verses that I've cited that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying God's law confirms that God's law is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus, or in other words, obeying God's word is the way to believe in God's way made flesh.

To look at one specific example:

Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

I don't see how you can deny that following God's law is the way to inherit eternal life without denying the truth of these verses.

It also is not guaranteed a believer, once converted, will be a faithful Christian.

My membership to my biological family doesn't change with my obedience or lack of it. A parent would discipline a child, but their status as their child stays matter what. The same is true with being a member of God's Family. The blood bought status as a child of God is stronger than a biological one. It's not bound by death.

What it comes down to is initially being converted vs daily exercise of faith.

You always seem to mix these up.
Being a child of someone is refers to being in their image by having their character traits expressed through doing the same works, which is why Jesus said in John 8:39 that if they were children of Abraham then they would be doing the same works as him. God's way is the way to be doers of God's character traits, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19) and in Psalms 119:1-3, God's law is how the children of Abraham know how to be blessed by walking in God's way, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's ways in obedience to His law, which is spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom. This is also why those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God (1 John 3:4-10) and why Paul contrasted those who are born of the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law.
 
I've used a lot of words because there are many verses that are contrary to you position, including this paragraph:

The Bible is abundantly clear that obedience to God's law is the way to inherit eternal life (Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Deuteronomy 32:46-47, Proverbs 3:18, Proverbs 6:23, Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28, Revelation 22:14, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 2:6-7, Romans 6:19-23). God's way is the way to doers of His character traits, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19). In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to have the experience of knowing God and Jesus through being doers of His character traits, which is the gift of eternal life (John 17:3). The many verses that say that the way to inherit eternal life is by believing in Jesus along with the verses that I've cited that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying God's law confirms that God's law is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus, or in other words, obeying God's word is the way to believe in God's way made flesh.

To look at one specific example:

Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

I don't see how you can deny that following God's law is the way to inherit eternal life without denying the truth of these verses.


Being a child of someone is refers to being in their image by having their character traits expressed through doing the same works, which is why Jesus said in John 8:39 that if they were children of Abraham then they would be doing the same works as him. God's way is the way to be doers of God's character traits, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19) and in Psalms 119:1-3, God's law is how the children of Abraham know how to be blessed by walking in God's way, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's ways in obedience to His law, which is spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom. This is also why those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God (1 John 3:4-10) and why Paul contrasted those who are born of the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law.

You are skipping over Jesus' atonement for sin. Heresy. Nuff said.
 
Rather, I spoke about his atonement for sin, but you ignored it. I was mostly just quoting verses to you, so you are saying that those verses are heresy.
No.. the atonement is key in the fact the following commands and laws cannot give eternal life. It takes the penalty of the law away. The book of Romans is mostly about this matter.
 
No.. the atonement is key in the fact the following commands and laws cannot give eternal life. It takes the penalty of the law away. The book of Romans is mostly about this matter.
How does Jesus taking the penalty for our sin mean that he lied about obedience to God's law being the way to inherit eternal life? In Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life, and in Romans 6:19-23, we are no longer to present ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin, but are now to present ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, so living in obedience to God's law is the content of His gift of eternal life.
 
How does Jesus taking the penalty for our sin mean that he lied about obedience to God's law being the way to inherit eternal life? In Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life, and in Romans 6:19-23, we are no longer to present ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin, but are now to present ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, so living in obedience to God's law is the content of His gift of eternal life.
Your mixing eternal justification with sanctification. Justification is first, once foe all. Sanctification, with daily service.

John 5:24...eternal life given past tense and forever. Same with 6:40, 10:28 etc..

So... put the Romans verses with these and you get the right picture.

Romans 2, then is not about receiving eternal life but daily service. It isn't saying don't do daily service and you won't have eternal life . It's saying having patience continually and not judging others you are doing this for the fact of already having eternal life.

'For' eternal life...is like having medication 'for' an ailment .

Similar to being baptised 'for' the remission of sins.. this is baptism because of having forgiveness of sins.

The Romans 2 verse doesn't have 'for' but it is in this sense, because that is what other scripture, including Romans says about justification and the law.
 
Romans 3:23-25 KJV - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
 
When a lost person is presented with the gospel, we say 'repent' and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Repent.. is a change of mind, heart. It's not a behaviour of cleaning your life up.

It's going from unbelief to belief..not 'Turning from sins'.

It could only mean turning from sins if it was acknowledging you are a sinner in need of grace and then believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Discipleship, following God's commands, submission.. etc... all are what we should do as works... but AFTER first getting saved!

There is nothing behaviour wise a lost person can do to receive eternal life. It's all Jesus leading and convicting.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal salvation. That is it! Not believe and promise to do good works or promise to be a disciple or promise to submit. That's mixing YOUR effort into getting saved.

So turning from sins is a great thing. But a lost person can't do that! They can go from unbelief to belief, and that's all. They can turn from sins after conversion seeing they are freed from them.
It is vitally important that we understand the biblical concept of repentance. It is central, not only to the New Testament, but to all of Scripture.

The gospel of Mark begins with the appearance of John the Baptist, who comes out of the wilderness announcing the approach of the kingdom of God. His message to the people of Israel was very simple: he called them to repentance. Just a short time after this, Jesus began His public ministry, preaching the exact same message: “Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel. ” Mark 1:14–15

Repentance recurs throughout the New Testament. When people listened to Christ or to the preaching of the Apostles, they would often respond by asking, “What should we do?” The answers assumed a similar form—“Believe in Christ,” “Believe and be baptized,” or “Repent and be baptized.” Since this concept of repentance is so central to the Apostolic preaching, it’s extremely important that we fully understand it.

Here's a good place to start.

Generally speaking, repentance has to do with the changing of one’s mind with respect to one’s behavior. But repentance is not just a behavior reform. But because true repentance involves a change of heart and purpose, it inevitably results in a change of behavior.

We do good works not to become saved but because we are saved. Ephesians 2:10 says, “For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” God’s goal in saving us was not only to rescue us from hell, but also that we would reflect His character and goodness to the world. God delights to see us becoming more like His Son.

During Jesus's 3-year Ministry he went about doing good works and we are to be imitators of him. Jesus said to His followers, “Let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven”. Matthew 5:16
 
It is vitally important that we understand the biblical concept of repentance. It is central, not only to the New Testament, but to all of Scripture.

The gospel of Mark begins with the appearance of John the Baptist, who comes out of the wilderness announcing the approach of the kingdom of God. His message to the people of Israel was very simple: he called them to repentance. Just a short time after this, Jesus began His public ministry, preaching the exact same message: “Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel. ” Mark 1:14–15

Repentance recurs throughout the New Testament. When people listened to Christ or to the preaching of the Apostles, they would often respond by asking, “What should we do?” The answers assumed a similar form—“Believe in Christ,” “Believe and be baptized,” or “Repent and be baptized.” Since this concept of repentance is so central to the Apostolic preaching, it’s extremely important that we fully understand it.

Here's a good place to start.

Generally speaking, repentance has to do with the changing of one’s mind with respect to one’s behavior. But repentance is not just a behavior reform. But because true repentance involves a change of heart and purpose, it inevitably results in a change of behavior.

We do good works not to become saved but because we are saved. Ephesians 2:10 says, “For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” God’s goal in saving us was not only to rescue us from hell, but also that we would reflect His character and goodness to the world. God delights to see us becoming more like His Son.

During Jesus's 3-year Ministry he went about doing good works and we are to be imitators of him. Jesus said to His followers, “Let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven”. Matthew 5:16
Behaviour reform is not repentance before getting converted. A lost person is dead in sin. Any behavioral reform before conversion is just putting 'perfume on a corpse'.

Repent..is a 'change of mind, heart' toward Jesus Christ..from unbelief to belief. It could be turning from sins if that meant knowing you are sinner and then believing. If that is what you mean, then I agree with that.

You gotta though, take good behaviour right out of receiving eternal life. Eternal life is a free gift, not by works.

Yes a saved person is converted unto good works..but that doesn't mean they are guaranteed to happen. It means they are now able to do good works because they are freed from the penalty of sin.


Their chains are gone. Now they can follow. Not that they are bound by any behavioral contract now.

This is what I'm getting at.

Turning from sins is obviously what God wants. But before conversion a lost person can't do that in any salvic sense.

Israel's called to repent is of an entire nation. To change their minds from worship of idols etc to trust God. It's a different context to an individual getting conversion.

But the main thing is: I didn't get converted by thinking 'now I'm committing these sins.. if I lessen them and believe on Jesus..I'll be converted '

No.. I couldn't lessen them as part of conversion. Jesus had to save me first, because I was spiritually dead, then I could lessen these sins.
 
Behaviour reform is not repentance before getting converted. A lost person is dead in sin. Any behavioral reform before conversion is just putting 'perfume on a corpse'.

Repent..is a 'change of mind, heart' toward Jesus Christ..from unbelief to belief. It could be turning from sins if that meant knowing you are sinner and then believing. If that is what you mean, then I agree with that.

You gotta though, take good behaviour right out of receiving eternal life. Eternal life is a free gift, not by works.

Yes a saved person is converted unto good works..but that doesn't mean they are guaranteed to happen. It means they are now able to do good works because they are freed from the penalty of sin.


Their chains are gone. Now they can follow. Not that they are bound by any behavioral contract now.

This is what I'm getting at.

Turning from sins is obviously what God wants. But before conversion a lost person can't do that in any salvic sense.

Israel's called to repent is of an entire nation. To change their minds from worship of idols etc to trust God. It's a different context to an individual getting conversion.

But the main thing is: I didn't get converted by thinking 'now I'm committing these sins.. if I lessen them and believe on Jesus..I'll be converted '

No.. I couldn't lessen them as part of conversion. Jesus had to save me first, because I was spiritually dead, then I could lessen these sins.
Here's what I mean...

Repentance has to do with the changing of one’s mind with respect to one’s behavior. But repentance is not just a behavior reform. But because true repentance involves a change of heart and purpose, it inevitably results in a change of behavior.

Yes good works are guaranteed to happen once you saved.


And God is able to make all grace (every favor and earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need be self-sufficient [possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation]. 2 Corinthians 9:8

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God… that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work
2 Timothy 3:16–17

Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no man, not to be fighting, gentle, showing all mildness toward all men. Titus 3:1–2

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, Who loved us and gave us everlasting consolation and encouragement and well-founded hope through [His] grace (unmerited favor),
17 Comfort and encourage your hearts and strengthen them [make them steadfast and keep them unswerving] in every good work and word. 2 Th 2:16–17.
 
Here's what I mean...

Repentance has to do with the changing of one’s mind with respect to one’s behavior. But repentance is not just a behavior reform. But because true repentance involves a change of heart and purpose, it inevitably results in a change of behavior.

Yes good works are guaranteed to happen once you saved.


And God is able to make all grace (every favor and earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need be self-sufficient [possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation]. 2 Corinthians 9:8

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God… that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work
2 Timothy 3:16–17

Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no man, not to be fighting, gentle, showing all mildness toward all men. Titus 3:1–2

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, Who loved us and gave us everlasting consolation and encouragement and well-founded hope through [His] grace (unmerited favor),
17 Comfort and encourage your hearts and strengthen them [make them steadfast and keep them unswerving] in every good work and word. 2 Th 2:16–17.

Okay, well we both believe in eternal security, so I'm not going to challenge you on your personal salvation with Jesus.

The question I would have.. is if good works definitely WILL happen for a believer.. how does that compare with a believer also always having some level of sin in their life?
 
Okay, well we both believe in eternal security, so I'm not going to challenge you on your personal salvation with Jesus.

The question I would have.. is if good works definitely WILL happen for a believer.. how does that compare with a believer also always having some level of sin in their life?
I don't see how you can possibly challenge me on my personal salvation with Jesus. I know that I know that I know that I have Jesus there's no doubt about it. I've seen the change in my life in the last 40 years. I'm definitely not even close to being the same person I was. That's Supernatural human beings can't do that on their own.

As for why we still sin. The Bible's real clear on it.

Because we're still on planet earth and it is controlled by Satan. Bible tells us that we've all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God but if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanses from all unrighteousness. The Bible also said if we say we're without sin we are calling God a liar.

I like to think of it as when Jesus Washed the feet of the disciples. He said he had already cleansed the rest of their bodies but their feet get dirty from walking around in this world.
 
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