You said there is no such thing as elect or non-elect. It seems you misspoke.
The Biblical view? Do tell
Total Depravity
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
The Biblical view? Do tell
Without any heretical thoughts added in, 2 Th 2:13 clearly says that God from the beginning chose us for salvation through belief in the truth (and sanctification by the Spirit). Do you agree?
What are my heretical thoughts and who said they are heretical?
civic
Well-known member
Nice dodge dart
What are my heretical thoughts and who said they are heretical? LOL
Once again, you ran away from 2 Th 2:13 as fast as your little legs can carry you.
As for your question, what am I a mind reader? Besides, I don't rummage through garbage
so why do you ask?What are my heretical thoughts and who said they are heretical? You said it genius, not I.Once again, you ran away from 2 Th 2:13 as fast as your little legs can carry you.
As for your question, what am I a mind reader? Besides, I don't rummage through garbage
You made another stupid claim so let's hear you back it up.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Nope - no change - EXCEPT possibly that Humanity was no longer purely Adamic in the antediluvian period -
What part of I am not a mind reader do you not understand?
What part of "I don't rummage through garbage" do you not understand?
Oh I forgot, I'm talking to a Pre-Schooler.
Pre schoolers make dumb claims. You being the prime example.What part of I am not a mind reader do you not understand?
What part of "I don't rummage through garbage" do you not understand?
Oh I forgot, I'm talking to a Pre-Schooler.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The scripture states that "There is none that understandeth..." (Rom. 3:11). "The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are altogether become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one" (Psa. 14:2,3). This shows that no man in his natural fallen state has any true perception of God and so cannot comprehend His way of Salvation, but is completely devoid of understanding. Instead, he only has a natural, rebellious rejection of the true God which stems from his perverted view of God as a result of spiritual blindness. Natural man cannot understand the things of God, for these things can only be spiritually discerned by those whom He has made alive unto Him: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (see 1 Cor. 2:9-14).
www.godsonlygospel.com
The understanding that's needed for the Gospel to be fruitfully believed man by nature doesnt have,
Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Now that word understandeth is the greek word syniēmi:
And its the same exact word Paul says man by nature doesnt have Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
By The Obedience Of One (2) | godsonlygospel
www.godsonlygospel.com
The understanding that's needed for the Gospel to be fruitfully believed man by nature doesnt have,
Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Now that word understandeth is the greek word syniēmi:
- To set or bring together
- in a hostile sense, of combatants
- to put (as it were) the perception with the thing perceived
- to set or join together in the mind
- i.e. to understand: the man of understanding
- idiom for: a good and upright man (having the knowledge of those things which pertain to salvation)
- to set or join together in the mind
And its the same exact word Paul says man by nature doesnt have Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@Presby02
I would ask this :
Does God desire the salvation of those who were appointed to disobedience 1 Peter 2:8.
Does God desire the salvation of those who, as natural brute beasts, are made to be taken and destroyed 2 Pet 2:12
Does God desire the salvation of those who were before of old ordained to his condemnation Jude 1:4
No, it doesn't. Nonsensical as usual
According to you, yes. Does God desire the salvation of all? Are all saved? Is you god big enough to save all if he so desired? Apparently not.Talk about undermining your own position.
I would ask this :
Does God desire the salvation of those who were appointed to disobedience 1 Peter 2:8.
Does God desire the salvation of those who, as natural brute beasts, are made to be taken and destroyed 2 Pet 2:12
Does God desire the salvation of those who were before of old ordained to his condemnation Jude 1:4
Great questions.
brightfame52
Well-known member
One of the reasons total depravity is a vital Gospel of Grace Doctrine is because it sets the stage as to why man needs to be saved by Grace, we need to see what God says about the spiritual condition of man, Rom 3:9-19
brightfame52
Well-known member
Total Depravity is one of the reasons why Jesus taught verily verily,
Jn 3:3-7
Hence all men by nature lack any spiritual ability to please God Rom 8:8
"They that are in the flesh [in their natural condition] cannot please God"
Total depravity The need for regeneration lies in man's total depravity.
Jn 3:3-7
This deals with mans nature resulting from the fall Gen 3,
Hence all men by nature lack any spiritual ability to please God Rom 8:8
"They that are in the flesh [in their natural condition] cannot please God"
Total depravity The need for regeneration lies in man's total depravity.
civic
Well-known member
Jesus corrects you below as He never taught TD or tulip.
Matthew 13- The Parable of the Sower
1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
T- man can choose to hear, see and receive the gospel
U- all can choose to believe and receive as demonstrated in the parable of the 4 soils
L- all soils received the seed without exception
I- 3 soils resisted all but 1 soil remained faithful and did not resist
P- 3/4 soils ( minds/hearts )did not preserver in the faith
1- Only something alive can be choked. You cannot choke the dead. And as we can see they all had life to begin with in each soil.
2- Only something alive can be scorched by the Sun and withered.
3- Only someone alive can receive the word in the heart and have it snatched away
4- Only someone alive can receive the word with Joy and endure for a while
Luke 14:23 And the master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel (αναγκασον) people to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.’” @synergy. Remember this from the old forum
The Greek word αναγκασον is to urge or compel, not irresistibly draw.There are 4 major Calvinist pillars that fall with the Parable of the Wedding Feast which is connected to the Parable of the Sower above.
- Monergism (Total Depravity),
- Preservation of Saints (many called by God but few chosen by God),
- Irresistible Grace (many called by God but few chosen by God),
- and even Limited Atonement because as many as could possibly be found were invited
Some O.T. light shed upon the N.T.
Jeremiah 4:3, and Hosea 10:12 say the following,
For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.
Jeremiah 4:3
Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you. Hosea 10:12
Both of these verses say that WE are to prepare the soil of our hearts! It is WE who do the plowing.
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Well-known member
Mans depravity is so total, he cant even believe in Christ for Salvation, he hasn't the ability Jn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
This coming to Jesus or believing, Jesus says, is impossible except by the power of God. No man has that power of himself
This scripture is vitally important because so many people have the mistaken idea that believing is the one good action that sinful man can do. The Word of God here says that it is not so.
Make no mistake here, the drawing is the Power of God !
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
This coming to Jesus or believing, Jesus says, is impossible except by the power of God. No man has that power of himself
This scripture is vitally important because so many people have the mistaken idea that believing is the one good action that sinful man can do. The Word of God here says that it is not so.
Make no mistake here, the drawing is the Power of God !
brightfame52
Well-known member
John 12:37-40
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
See here the emphasis of the Scriptures is on man's total inability to believe apart from the grace/power of God, but we also find here that this depravity/inability of man is the direct result of God's judgment upon man and does not just happen to be the case with him. His depravity is, then ,the death with which God threatened him in the beginning.
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
See here the emphasis of the Scriptures is on man's total inability to believe apart from the grace/power of God, but we also find here that this depravity/inability of man is the direct result of God's judgment upon man and does not just happen to be the case with him. His depravity is, then ,the death with which God threatened him in the beginning.
