"the Word was God"

[Johann]

1:1 "In the beginning" This reflects Genesis 1:1 and is also used in 1 John 1:1 as a reference to the incarnation. It is possible that 1 John was a cover letter to the Gospel. Both deal with Gnosticism. John 1:1-5 is an affirmation of Jesus Christ's divine pre-existence before creation (cf. John 1:15,30; 8:56-59; 16:28; 17:5,24; 2 Cor. 8:9; Phil. 2:6-7; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3; 10:5-9 quotes Ps. 40:6-8).

In the NT Jesus is described as

a new creation, not marred by the Fall (i.e., Gen. 3:15 fulfilled for mankind)
a new conquest (Promised Land)
a new exodus (fulfilled prophecy)
a new Moses (law giver)
a new Joshua (cf. Heb. 4:8)
a new water miracle (cf. Hebrews 3-4)
new manna (cf. John 6)
and so many more, especially in Hebrews.



"was" (thrice) This is an IMPERFECT TENSE (cf. John 1:1,2,4,10) which focuses on continual existence in past time. This TENSE is used to show the Logos' pre-existence (cf. John 8:57-58; 17:5,24; 2 Cor. 8:9; Col. 1:17; Heb. 10:5-9). It is contrasted with the AORIST TENSES of John 1:3 (i.e., creation), 6 (i.e., John the Baptist, and 14 (i.e., the incarnation).

"the Word" The Greek term logos referred to a message, not just a single word. In this context it is a title which the Greeks used to describe "world reason" and the Hebrews as analogus with "Wisdom." John chose this term to assert that God's Word is both a person and a message.

"with God" "With" could be paraphrased "face to face." It depicts intimate fellowship. It also points toward the concept of one divine essence and three personal eternal manifestations. The NT asserts the paradox that Jesus is separate from the Father, but also that He is one with the Father.



"the Word was God" This VERB is IMPERFECT TENSE as in John 1:1a. There is no ARTICLE (which identifies the SUBJECT, see F. F. Bruce, Answers to Questions, p. 66) with Theos, but Theos is placed first in the Greek phrase for emphasis. This verse and John 1:18 are strong statements of the full deity of the pre-existent Logos (cf. John 5:18; 8:58; 10:30; 14:9; 17:11; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1). Jesus is fully divine as well as fully human (cf. 1 John 4:1-3). He is not the same as God the Father, but He is the very same divine essence as the Father.

The Word of God: The Ages Past - SLJ Institute

Dr. S. Lewis Johnson expounds the first verses of John's gospel and the divine, eternal essence of Christ. Dr. Johnson explains how Christ's nature was debated by the early church leaders.

sljinstitute.net

The NT asserts the full deity of Jesus of Nazareth, but protects the distinct personhood of the Father. The one divine essence is emphasized in John 1:1; 5:18; 10:30,34-38; 14:9-10; and 20:28, while their distinct persons are emphasized in John 1:2,14,18; 5:19-23; 8:28; 10:25,29; 14:11,12,13,16.

 

[civic]

Amen !!!

 

[Johann]

Amen !!!

To God be the glory brother-having problems on the "other" Forum and simply love the layout of this Forum.
Shalom to you and family.
J.

 

[civic]

To God be the glory brother-having problems on the "other" Forum and simply love the layout of this Forum.
Shalom to you and family.
J.

Thanks my friend

 

[101G]

"with God" "With" could be paraphrased "face to face." It depicts intimate fellowship.

instead of face to face... how about "the Equal Share" as the ECHAD points out.

10G.

 

[Wrangler]

1:1 "In the beginning" This reflects Genesis 1:1

No. It does not reflect Genesis 1:1.

Genesis is referring to the beginning of time.

John is talking about the beginning of the ministry of a servant of God.

 

[Johann]

instead of face to face... how about "the Equal Share" as the ECHAD points out.

10G.

Echad and Yachid has nothing to do about "the equal square"
J.
Number-ms (BSB Morphology)
Number - masculine singular
Lemma: אֶחָד
Word: one
Hebrew: אֶחָֽד׃
Transliteration: ’e·ḥāḏ
H259 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments)
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.


'e·Chad. 25 וַ·יִּֽהְי֤וּ vai·yih·Yu שְׁנֵי·הֶם֙ she·nei·Hem עֲרוּמִּ֔ים 'a·rum·Mim, הָֽ·אָדָ֖ם ha·'a·Dam וְ·אִשְׁתּ֑·וֹ ve·'ish·To; וְ·לֹ֖א ve·Lo יִתְבֹּשָֽׁשׁוּ׃

1165) Dh% (Dh% HhD) ac: Unite co: Unit ab: Unity: The pictograph h is a picture of a wall. The d is a picture of a door. Combined these mean "wall door". A wall separates the inside from the outside. Only through the door can one enter or exit uniting the inside with the outside.
A) Dh% (Dh% HhD) ac: ? co: Unite ab: ?: Two or more coming together as a unity. The sharp edge of a blade is the coming together of the two to one point.
Nm) Dh% (Dh% HhD) — I. Unit: A singular of a larger group. II. Sharp: The two edges of a sword that meet to form one point. [Hebrew and Aramaic] [freq. 19] |kjv: one, first, together, sharp| H2297*, H2298*, H2299*
B) Ddh% (Ddh% HhDD) ac: Sharp co: ? ab: ?: The two edges of a sword that meet to form one point.
V) Ddh% (Ddh% Hh-DD) — Sharp: [freq. 6] (vf: Paal, Hiphil, Hophal) |kjv: sharpen, fierce| H2300*
dm) Dfdh% (Dfdh% Hh-DWD) — Sharp: [freq. 1] |kjv: sharp| H2303*
C) Dha% (Dha% AHhD) ac: Unite co: ? ab: Unity: A uniting together. All things are a unity with something else (one man is a unity of body, breath and mind, one family is a unity of father, mother and children, one tree is a unity of trunk, branches and leaves, one forest is a unity of trees).
V) Dha% (Dha% A-HhD) — Unite: [freq. 1] (vf: Hitpael) |kjv: go one way or other| H258*
Nm) Dha% (Dha% A-HhD) — Unity: A group united are one of a group. [freq. 951] |kjv: one, first, another, other, any, once, every, certain, an, some| H259*
H) Edh% (Edh% HhDH) ac: Join co: ? ab: ?: A uniting together in joy.
V) Edh% (Edh% Hh-DH) — Join: [freq. 3] (vf: Paal, Piel) |kjv: rejoice, join, glad| H2302*
J) Dfh% (Dfh% HhWD) ac: ? co: Riddle ab: ?: The riddle begins by dividing the hearer from the listener by creating the riddle. The riddle ends with the answer uniting the two.
V) Dfh% (Dfh% HhWD) — Propose: To give a riddle. [freq. 4] (vf: Paal) |kjv: put forth| H2330*
L) Dhi% (Dhi% YHhD) ac: Unite co: ? ab: Unity: A uniting together. All things are a unity with something else (one man is a unity of body, breath and mind, one family is a unity of father, mother and children, one tree is a unity of trunk, branches and leaves, one forest is a unity of trees).
V) Dhi% (Dhi% Y-HhD) — Unite: [freq. 3] (vf: Paal, Piel) |kjv: unite, join| H3161*
Nm) Dhi% (Dhi% Y-HhD) — Together: [freq. 142] |kjv: together, alike, likewise, withal| H3162*
bm) Dihi% (Dihi% Y-HhYD) — Unity: A child as the product of a union. The soul as a unity of body, soul and breath. [freq. 12] |kjv: only, darling, desolate, solitary| H3173*
M) Dih% (Dih% HhYD) ac: ? co: Riddle ab: ?: The riddle begins by dividing the hearer from the listener by creating the riddle. The riddle ends with the answer uniting the two.
Nf1) Edih% (Edih% HhY-DH) — Riddle: [freq. 17] |kjv: riddle, dark saying, hard question, dark sentence, proverb, dark speech| H2420*
nf1) Ediha% (Ediha% A-HhY-DH) — Riddle: [Aramaic only] [freq. 1] |kjv: hard sentence| H280*

AHLB.

J.

 

[101G]

H259 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments)
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.

GINOLJC, to all.
notice definition #2. (as an ordinal) first.

is not God the First and "WITH" the Last? scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." question, "IS THIS ONE PERSON OR TWO PERSONS? YOUR ANSWER PLEASE. read it carefully the LORD (who is the first, is "WITH" the Last.

101G

 

[Johann]

GINOLJC, to all.
notice definition #2. (as an ordinal) first.

is not God the First and "WITH" the Last? scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." question, "IS THIS ONE PERSON OR TWO PERSONS? YOUR ANSWER PLEASE. read it carefully the LORD (who is the first, is "WITH" the Last.

101G

Notice the UNITY in Ancient Hebrew.

 

[101G]

Notice the UNITY in Ancient Hebrew.

and? so, is the First, (the LORD), who is "WITH" the Last in Isaiah 41:4 is this two person or one person? your answer please.

101G

 

[Johann]

and? so, is the First, (the LORD), who is "WITH" the Last in Isaiah 41:4 is this two person or one person? your answer please.

101G

Two.

 

[101G]

Two.

thanks, but let's see what God say about it... ok. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." same one person. so how can it be a face to face, if it's only one person......... but.... (101G will leave that door open.)

now do you want to recalibrate your thinking?

101G

 

[Johann]

thanks, but let's see what God say about it... ok. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." same one person. so how can it be a face to face, if it's only one person......... but.... (101G will leave that door open.)

now do you want to recalibrate your thinking?

101G

Brother-where do you come from? What Church? Pelagius, Arius?

THE TRINITY

Notice the activity of all three Persons of the Trinity in unified contexts. The term "trinity," first coined by Tertullian, is not a biblical word, but the concept is pervasive.

A. the Gospels

1. Matt. 3:16-17; 28:19 (and parallels)

2. John 14:26

B. Acts – Acts 2:32-33, 38-39

C. Paul

1. Rom. 1:4-5; 5:1,5; 8:1-4,8-10

2. 1 Cor. 2:8-10; 12:4-6

3. 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 13:14

4. Gal. 4:4-6

5. Eph. 1:3-14,17; 2:18; 3:14-17; 4:4-6

6. 1 Thess. 1:2-5

7. 2 Thess. 2:13

8. Titus 3:4-6

D. Peter – 1 Pet. 1:2

E. Jude – vv. 20-21



A plurality in God is hinted at in the OT.

A. Use of plurals for God

1. Name Elohim is plural, but when used of God always has a singular verb

2. "Us" in Genesis 1:26-27; 3:22; 11:7

B. "The Angel of the Lord"\ was a visible representative of Deity

1. Genesis 16:7-13; 22:11-15; 31:11,13; 48:15-16

2. Exodus 3:2,4; 13:21; 14:19

3. Judges 2:1; 6:22-23; 13:3-22

4. Zechariah 3:1-2

C. God and His Spirit are separate, Gen. 1:1-2; Ps. 104:30; Isa. 63:9-11; Ezek. 37:13-14

D. God (YHWH) and Messiah (Adon) are separate, Ps. 45:6-7; 110:1; Zech. 2:8-11; 10:9-12

E. The Messiah and the Spirit are separate, Zech. 12:10

F. All three are mentioned in Isa. 48:16; 61:1



The Deity of Jesus and the personality of the Spirit caused problems for the strict, monotheistic , early believers.

1. Tertullian – subordinated the Son to the Father

2. Origen – subordinated the divine essence of the Son and the Spirit

3. Arius – denied Deity to the Son and Spirit

4. Monarchianism – believed in a successive chronological manifestation of the one God as Father, then Son, and then Spirit



The Trinity is a historically developed formulation informed by the biblical material.

1. the full Deity of Jesus, equal to the Father, was affirmed in a.d. 325 by the Council of Nicea (cf. John 1:1; Phil. 2:6; Titus 2:13)

2. the full personality and Deity of the Spirit equal to the Father and Son was affirmed in a.d. 381 by the Council of Constantinople

3. the doctrine of the Trinity is fully expressed in Augustine's work De Trinitate

There is truly mystery here. But the NT affirms one divine essence (monotheism) with three eternal personal manifestations (Father, Son, and Spirit).

Do look up the Scripture references and don't quote an excerpt of this post.
Thanks J.

 

[Johann]

thanks, but let's see what God say about it... ok. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." same one person. so how can it be a face to face, if it's only one person......... but.... (101G will leave that door open.)

now do you want to recalibrate your thinking?

101G

No need to recalibrate-the "working gears" are shifting just fine.

 

[Johann]

thanks, but let's see what God say about it... ok. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." same one person. so how can it be a face to face, if it's only one person......... but.... (101G will leave that door open.)

now do you want to recalibrate your thinking?

101G

MONOTHEISM

Mankind has always felt there is more to reality than the physical (i.e., affected by things out of their control, such as storms, eclipses, coment, weather, events, death, etc.). Anthropologists tell us they find things in the graves of primitive hominoids that apparently are for the next life, which they viewed as an extension of this life.

The first written culture was Sumer (soutnern Tigris, Euphrates Rivers), begun about 10,000 - 8,000 b.c. They wrote poems to express their view of the gods and their interacting. Again, much like humans with all their weaknesses. Their traditions existed in oral form long before they were written down.

There was a theological development from

animism to
polytheism to
a high god (or dualism)
The concept of "monotheism" (one and only one personal, ethical God with no female consort), not just the "high god" of polytheism or the good god of Iranian dualism (Zoroastrianism), is unique to Israel (Abraham and Job, 2000 b.c.). Only one rare exception briefly in Egypt (Amenhotep IV, also known as Akhenaten, 1367-1350 or 1386-1361 b.c., who worshiped Aten, the sun god, as the only god). See J. Assmann, The Mind of Egypt, pp. 216-217.

This concept is expressed in several phrases in the OT.

"no one like YHWH our Elohim," Exod. 8:10; 9:14; Deut. 33:26; 1 Kgs. 8:23
"no other besides Him," Deut. 4:35,39; 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:2; 2 Sam. 22:32; Isa. 45:21; 44:6,8; 45:6,21
"YHWH is one," Deut. 6:4; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; 1 Tim. 2:5; James 2:19
"none like You," 2 Sam. 7:22; Jer. 10:6
"You alone are God," Ps. 86:10; Isa. 37:16
"Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me," Isa. 43:10
"there is no other; besides Me. . .there is no other," Isa. 45:5,6,22
"He is the source of all things," Isa. 45:7 (cf. Amos 3:6)
"there is none else, no other God," Isa. 45:14,18
"there is none except Me," Isa. 45:21
"there is no other;. . .there is no one like Me," Isa. 46:9
It must be admitted that this crucial doctrine has been revealed in progressive ways. The early statements could be understood as "henotheism" or practical monotheism (there are other gods, i.e., Jos. 24:15; 1 Kgs. 18:21), but only one God for us (cf. Exod. 15:11; 20:2-5; Deut. 5:7; 6:4,14; 10:17; 32:12; 1 Kgs. 8:23; Ps. 83:18; 86:8; 136:1-9).

The first texts that begin to denote a singularity (philosophical monotheism) are early (cf. Exod. 8:10; 9:14; 20:2-3; Deut. 4:35,39; 33:26). The full and compete claims are found in Isaiah 43-46 (cf. 43:10-11; 44:6,8; 45:7,14,18,22; 46:5,9).

The OT depreciates the gods of the nations as

human creations – Deut. 4:28; 2 Kgs. 19:18; Ps. 115:4-8; 135:15-18; Isa. 2:8; 17:8; 37:19; 40:19; 41:7,24,29; 44:10,12; 46:6-7; Jer. 10:3-5; Rev. 9:10
demons – Deut. 32:17; Ps. 106:37; Isa. 8:19; 19:3c; 1 Cor. 10:20; Rev. 9:20
vanity, empty – Deut. 32:21; 2 Kgs. 17:15; Ps. 31:6; Isa. 2:18; 41:29; Jer. 2:5; 10:8; 14:22; Jer. 2:5; 8:19
no gods – Det. 32:21; 2 Chr. 13:9; Isa. 37:19; Jer. 2:11; 5:7; 1 Cor. 8:4-5; 10:20; Rev. 9:20
The NT alludes to Deut. 6:4 in Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Eph. 4:6; 1 Tim. 2:5; and James 2:19. Jesus quotes it as the first commandment in Matt. 22:36-37; Mark 12:29-30; Luke 10:27. The OT, as well as the NT, asserts the reality of other spiritual beings (demons, angels), but only one creator/redeemer God (YHWH, Gen. 1:1).

Biblical monotheism is characterized by

God is one and unique (ontology is assumed, not specified)
God is personal (cf. Gen. 1:26-27; 3:8)
God is ethical (cf. Exod. 34:6; Neh. 9:17; Ps. 103:8-10)
God created humans in His image (Gen. 1:26-27) for fellowship (i.e., #2). He is a jealous God (cf. Exod. 20:5-6)
From the NT

God has three eternal, personal manifestations
God is perfectly and completely revealed in Jesus (cf. John 1:1-14; Col. 1:15-19; Heb. 1:2-3)
God's eternal plan for fallen humanity's redemption is the sacrificial offering of His only Son (Isaiah 53; Mark 10:45; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 2:6-11; Hebrews)
Utley

 

[civic]

MONOTHEISM

Mankind has always felt there is more to reality than the physical (i.e., affected by things out of their control, such as storms, eclipses, coment, weather, events, death, etc.). Anthropologists tell us they find things in the graves of primitive hominoids that apparently are for the next life, which they viewed as an extension of this life.

The first written culture was Sumer (soutnern Tigris, Euphrates Rivers), begun about 10,000 - 8,000 b.c. They wrote poems to express their view of the gods and their interacting. Again, much like humans with all their weaknesses. Their traditions existed in oral form long before they were written down.

There was a theological development from

animism to
polytheism to
a high god (or dualism)
The concept of "monotheism" (one and only one personal, ethical God with no female consort), not just the "high god" of polytheism or the good god of Iranian dualism (Zoroastrianism), is unique to Israel (Abraham and Job, 2000 b.c.). Only one rare exception briefly in Egypt (Amenhotep IV, also known as Akhenaten, 1367-1350 or 1386-1361 b.c., who worshiped Aten, the sun god, as the only god). See J. Assmann, The Mind of Egypt, pp. 216-217.

This concept is expressed in several phrases in the OT.

"no one like YHWH our Elohim," Exod. 8:10; 9:14; Deut. 33:26; 1 Kgs. 8:23
"no other besides Him," Deut. 4:35,39; 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:2; 2 Sam. 22:32; Isa. 45:21; 44:6,8; 45:6,21
"YHWH is one," Deut. 6:4; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; 1 Tim. 2:5; James 2:19
"none like You," 2 Sam. 7:22; Jer. 10:6
"You alone are God," Ps. 86:10; Isa. 37:16
"Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me," Isa. 43:10
"there is no other; besides Me. . .there is no other," Isa. 45:5,6,22
"He is the source of all things," Isa. 45:7 (cf. Amos 3:6)
"there is none else, no other God," Isa. 45:14,18
"there is none except Me," Isa. 45:21
"there is no other;. . .there is no one like Me," Isa. 46:9
It must be admitted that this crucial doctrine has been revealed in progressive ways. The early statements could be understood as "henotheism" or practical monotheism (there are other gods, i.e., Jos. 24:15; 1 Kgs. 18:21), but only one God for us (cf. Exod. 15:11; 20:2-5; Deut. 5:7; 6:4,14; 10:17; 32:12; 1 Kgs. 8:23; Ps. 83:18; 86:8; 136:1-9).

The first texts that begin to denote a singularity (philosophical monotheism) are early (cf. Exod. 8:10; 9:14; 20:2-3; Deut. 4:35,39; 33:26). The full and compete claims are found in Isaiah 43-46 (cf. 43:10-11; 44:6,8; 45:7,14,18,22; 46:5,9).

The OT depreciates the gods of the nations as

human creations – Deut. 4:28; 2 Kgs. 19:18; Ps. 115:4-8; 135:15-18; Isa. 2:8; 17:8; 37:19; 40:19; 41:7,24,29; 44:10,12; 46:6-7; Jer. 10:3-5; Rev. 9:10
demons – Deut. 32:17; Ps. 106:37; Isa. 8:19; 19:3c; 1 Cor. 10:20; Rev. 9:20
vanity, empty – Deut. 32:21; 2 Kgs. 17:15; Ps. 31:6; Isa. 2:18; 41:29; Jer. 2:5; 10:8; 14:22; Jer. 2:5; 8:19
no gods – Det. 32:21; 2 Chr. 13:9; Isa. 37:19; Jer. 2:11; 5:7; 1 Cor. 8:4-5; 10:20; Rev. 9:20
The NT alludes to Deut. 6:4 in Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Eph. 4:6; 1 Tim. 2:5; and James 2:19. Jesus quotes it as the first commandment in Matt. 22:36-37; Mark 12:29-30; Luke 10:27. The OT, as well as the NT, asserts the reality of other spiritual beings (demons, angels), but only one creator/redeemer God (YHWH, Gen. 1:1).

Biblical monotheism is characterized by

God is one and unique (ontology is assumed, not specified)
God is personal (cf. Gen. 1:26-27; 3:8)
God is ethical (cf. Exod. 34:6; Neh. 9:17; Ps. 103:8-10)
God created humans in His image (Gen. 1:26-27) for fellowship (i.e., #2). He is a jealous God (cf. Exod. 20:5-6)
From the NT

God has three eternal, personal manifestations
God is perfectly and completely revealed in Jesus (cf. John 1:1-14; Col. 1:15-19; Heb. 1:2-3)
God's eternal plan for fallen humanity's redemption is the sacrificial offering of His only Son (Isaiah 53; Mark 10:45; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 2:6-11; Hebrews)
Utley

Yes the 3 major monotheistic world religions are Christianity ( Trinitarianism) , Judaism and Islam. It’s a fact that anti trins deny.

 

[Johann]

Yes the 3 major monotheistic world religions are Christianity ( Trinitarianism) , Judaism and Islam. It’s a fact that anti trins deny.

Far as I know-Islam and Orthodox Judaism don't hold to the Triune Godhead.
J.

 

[civic]

Far as I know-Islam and Orthodox Judaism don't hold to the Triune Godhead.
J.

Correct mono means One. All 3 believe in One God.

 

[101G]

No need to recalibrate-the "working gears" are shifting just fine.

so you agree with Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." AND Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." AS ONE IN THE SAME PERSON..... YES OR NO?

101G.

 

[101G]

"Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me," Isa. 43:10

just taking one out of your play book how many is "me?"

101G.