The Unconditional Election Debate: An Universalist Perspective

[TomL]

Doest change Rom 8:8, those in Jn 1:12 who received and believed on Christ was because they were born of God Vs 13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God

Sorry you fail to read scripture properly

John 1:12–13 (NASB 95) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.


One must receive Christ before he is given the right to become a child of God.

Those who receive Christ are described as even those who believe in his name.

It is then they become a child of God, being born of Him

 

[TomL]

And so they are in the flesh and consequently the indictment is Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:8 (KJV)
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

(Heb 11:6 KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Those who are unsaved are not given the gift of faith, therefore without faith it is impossible to please God. The unregenerate person lives their life in the flesh and sinful flesh is always at enmity with a Holy God. When a believer sins, they are momentarily walking in the flesh and at that moment they are not pleasing God, only when they repent of that sin and return to the spiritual life. Those who live their entire lives and die in the flesh will be judged for their sins at the last day since they have no Savior.https://www.scionofzion.com/romans8_1-10.htm

Of course the unregenerate are not indwelled by the Spirit

John 7:37–39 (NASB 95) — 37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

But that did not stop them from believing and, after that, receiving the Spirit.

According to Heb 11:6 believing pleases God

Hebrews 11:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

Noah by faith would be a man who pleased God

 

[TomL]

Are the unregenerate w/o the Spirit in the flesh ?

You need to define in the flesh

The fact is all men, even believers, exist in flesh. It is another thing, however, to be totally controlled by fleshly thinking

Senses

sinful humanity ⇔ flesh 51 of 166
flesh (tissue) 32 of 166
body ⇔ flesh 27 of 166
humanity ⇔ flesh 16 of 166
humankind (sin) ⇔ flesh 9 of 166

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

@TomL : It was the hen, since only a hen can lay eggs
@brightfame52 : But how such hen appear? Any hen must be born from an egg
@TomL: And such egg mist be laid by a hen, so a hen must exist first…

 

[civic]

Are the unregenerate w/o the Spirit in the flesh ?

Was Jesus God manifest in the flesh ?

next fallacy

 

[civic]

You need to define in the flesh

The fact is all men, even believers, exist in flesh. It is another thing, however, to be totally controlled by fleshly thinking

Senses
View attachment 2745

sinful humanity ⇔ flesh 51 of 166
flesh (tissue) 32 of 166
body ⇔ flesh 27 of 166
humanity ⇔ flesh 16 of 166
humankind (sin) ⇔ flesh 9 of 166

Amen brother

 

[TomL]

@TomL : It was the hen, since only a hen can lay eggs
@brightfame52 : But how such hen appear? Any hen must be born from an egg
@TomL: And such egg mist be laid by a hen, so a hen must exist first…

And in scripture one must first believe before one may be indwelt by the Spirit

John 7:38–39 (NASB 95) — 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Galatians 3:2 (NASB 95) — 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:5 (NASB 95) — 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:14 (NASB 95) — 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Acts 2:38 (NASB 95) — 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

You are running from the fact

Fact: One must receive Christ before being made a child of God.

John 1:9–12 (NASB 95) — 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

So one must believe before he can become a child of God

Rom 8:8 !

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry you fail to read scripture properly

John 1:12–13 (NASB 95) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.


One must receive Christ before he is given the right to become a child of God.

Those who receive Christ are described as even those who believe in his name.

It is then they become a child of God, being born of Him

Them in the flesh can't please God!

 

[brightfame52]

Of course the unregenerate are not indwelled by the Spirit

So they can't please God

 

[brightfame52]

You need to define in the flesh

I've already, the unregenerate.

 

[brightfame52]

Was Jesus God manifest in the flesh ?

next fallacy

Rabbit trail

 

[TomL]

I've already, the unregenerate.

Even the regenerate are made of flesh


The fact is all men, even believers, exist in flesh. It is another thing, however, to be totally controlled by fleshly thinking

Senses

sinful humanity ⇔ flesh 51 of 166

flesh (tissue) 32 of 166

body ⇔ flesh 27 of 166

humanity ⇔ flesh 16 of 166

humankind (sin) ⇔ flesh 9 of 166

 

[TomL]

So they can't please God

They please God when they believe

Of course the unregenerate are not indwelled by the Spirit

John 7:37–39 (NASB 95) — 37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

But that did not stop them from believing and, after that, receiving the Spirit.

According to Heb 11:6 believing pleases God

Hebrews 11:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

Noah by faith would be a man who pleased God

 

[TomL]

Them in the flesh can't please God!

Sorry you fail to read scripture properly

John 1:12–13 (NASB 95) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.


One must receive Christ before he is given the right to become a child of God.

Those who receive Christ are described as even those who believe in his name.

It is then they become a child of God, being born of Him

 

[TomL]

Rom 8:8 !

You are running from the fact

Fact: One must receive Christ before being made a child of God.

John 1:9–12 (NASB 95) — 9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

So one must believe before he can become a child of God

Rom 8:8 does not disprove this.

 

[brightfame52]

Even the regenerate are made of flesh

The regenerate however have not only flesh but the Spirit Gal 5 17

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

The unregenerate dont have the Spirit, so they are in the flesh.

 

[brightfame52]

They please God when they believe

They cant believe since they cant please God Rom 8:8 so be careful lest you call God a liar

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry you fail to read scripture properly

No you do. And I have told you them in Jn 1:12 believe because they were born of God. Otherwise they cant please God duh

 

[brightfame52]

You are running from the fact

You cant accept the truth, them in the flesh cannot please God