Nothing good comes from the flesh is scriptural proof. Its in the Bible correct?I gave scripture as proof, you gave you "opinion" which holds no weight.
The New birth comes after hearing/believing the gospel
- Thread starter civic
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civic
Active Member
another verse/ summary ripped from the biblical intent.
What? That's it? See, I can do that to. Nothing good comes from the flesh. No one calls Christ Lord BUT BY THE SPIRIT. Let's not forget John 1:13 either. The verse you guys love to skip over or ignore.
civic
Active Member
Lets examine the biblical narrative not a random verse removed from its context.
The good news of the gospel is that through faith we are given grace and forgiven of our sins due to what Jesus did for us by dying on the cross and coming back to life. Putting your faith in something is as much a choice as any of the other choices that you’ve made in life — yet Calvinism denies that Christians have that ability.
We know that God does not change who He is (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8, James 1:17) which in turn means that the character of God is not different between the old and new testaments. In the old testament, God makes it clear to the nation of Israel that they have two options in front of them.
Those options are to choose life or death (Deuteronomy 30:15–20, John 3:16–18). As another example, in the Garden of Eden, the devil had to make Eve choose to rebel against what God had commanded her and Adam to do. We are told in scripture that we cannot please God without having faith (Hebrews 11:3, Hebrews 11:6, James 1:5–8). We are also told that God wants none of us to perish (2 Peter 3:8–9) and that the gospel is now available to all men through Jesus’ death and resurrection (Titus 2:11).
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
Here is an honest Calvinist who recogniozes church history and the the Apostles and early church taught free will and synergism.
Here is the renown Calvinist Lorraine Boettner :
It may occasion some surprise to discover that the doctrine of Predestination was not made a matter of special study until near the end of the fourth century. The earlier church fathers placed chief emphasis on good works such as faith, repentance, almsgiving, prayers, submission to baptism, etc., as the basis of salvation. They of course taught that salvation was through Christ; yet they assumed that man had full power to accept or reject the gospel. Some of their writings contain passages in which the sovereignty of God is recognized; yet along side of those are others which teach the absolute freedom of the human will. Since they could not reconcile the two they would have denied the doctrine of Predestination and perhaps also that of God's absolute Foreknowledge. They taught a kind of synergism in which there was a co-operation between grace and free will. It was hard for man to give up the idea that he could work out his own salvation. But at last, as a result of a long, slow process, he came to the great truth that salvation is a sovereign gift which has been bestowed irrespective of merit; that it was fixed in eternity; and that God is the author in all of its stages. This cardinal truth of Christianity was first clearly seen by Augustine, the great Spirit-filled theologian of the West. In his doctrines of sin and grace, he went far beyond the earlier theologians, taught an unconditional election of grace, and restricted the purposes of redemption to the definite circle of the elect.
Even the late RC knows the origins of calvinistic doctrines
From R.C. Sproul:
“It has been said that all of Western theology is a footnote to the work of Augustine. This is because no other writer, with the exception of the biblical authors, has had more influence on Christendom. Thomas Aquinas quoted Augustine heavily when he composed his Summa Theologica. When Martin Luther and John Calvin were accused of teaching new doctrine, they pointed to Augustine as an example of one who had taught the things they were teaching… His Confessions is one of the most important autobiographies ever written.”
conclusion: It was the stoics, gnostic and manicheans who first taught unconditional election that augustine brought into the church and married it with christianity just like he did with total depravity which came from the same sources. Those who are familiar with church history know this to be true. Calvin references augustine in his writings over 4,000 times. That was his mentor, guide, leader, influencer whom he closely followed in his writings/teachings/doctrines. Calvin was a disciple of augustine. No ifs ands or buts about it those are the facts. As RC says augustine is the father of determinism. No augustine, no reformation.
I know my church history and do not turn a blind eye from the source of calvinism.
hope this helps !!!
Here is the renown Calvinist Lorraine Boettner :
It may occasion some surprise to discover that the doctrine of Predestination was not made a matter of special study until near the end of the fourth century. The earlier church fathers placed chief emphasis on good works such as faith, repentance, almsgiving, prayers, submission to baptism, etc., as the basis of salvation. They of course taught that salvation was through Christ; yet they assumed that man had full power to accept or reject the gospel. Some of their writings contain passages in which the sovereignty of God is recognized; yet along side of those are others which teach the absolute freedom of the human will. Since they could not reconcile the two they would have denied the doctrine of Predestination and perhaps also that of God's absolute Foreknowledge. They taught a kind of synergism in which there was a co-operation between grace and free will. It was hard for man to give up the idea that he could work out his own salvation. But at last, as a result of a long, slow process, he came to the great truth that salvation is a sovereign gift which has been bestowed irrespective of merit; that it was fixed in eternity; and that God is the author in all of its stages. This cardinal truth of Christianity was first clearly seen by Augustine, the great Spirit-filled theologian of the West. In his doctrines of sin and grace, he went far beyond the earlier theologians, taught an unconditional election of grace, and restricted the purposes of redemption to the definite circle of the elect.
Even the late RC knows the origins of calvinistic doctrines
From R.C. Sproul:
“It has been said that all of Western theology is a footnote to the work of Augustine. This is because no other writer, with the exception of the biblical authors, has had more influence on Christendom. Thomas Aquinas quoted Augustine heavily when he composed his Summa Theologica. When Martin Luther and John Calvin were accused of teaching new doctrine, they pointed to Augustine as an example of one who had taught the things they were teaching… His Confessions is one of the most important autobiographies ever written.”
conclusion: It was the stoics, gnostic and manicheans who first taught unconditional election that augustine brought into the church and married it with christianity just like he did with total depravity which came from the same sources. Those who are familiar with church history know this to be true.
Calvin references augustine in his writings over 4,000 times. That was his mentor, guide, leader, influencer whom he closely followed in his writings/teachings/doctrines. Calvin was a disciple of augustine. No ifs ands or buts about it those are the facts. As RC says augustine is the father of determinism. No augustine, no reformation. I know my church history and do not turn a blind eye from the source of calvinism.
hope this helps !!!
So you offered the context of the scripture I quoted? Where ecactly?
civic
Active Member
And the Incarnation disproves original sin, the sin nature.
John 1:14- And the Word became flesh (sarx) and dwelled among us and we beheld His glory, the glory of the only begotten from the Father full of grace and truth.
Hebrews 2- Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17For this reason he had to be made like them, k fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
Above we see the Son through the Incarnation became sarx( flesh). Hebrews 2 says He shared that same flesh we have and was like us in every way.
So if Jesus came in the flesh ( John 1:1, 1 John 4:2, 2 John 1:7) then His humanity disproves the sin nature misnomer many teach and believe or one must admit Jesus was born with a fallen corrupt sinful nature and thus born a sinner like all men are born sinners according to the doctrine of Original Sin and TD. ( Total Depravity )
You see man in not born a sinner just like Jesus was not born a sinner. Jesus never sinned yet was born innocent like all men. We become sinners when we sin and become guilty of sin. This is why babies are innocent , not guilty until they sin.
hope this helps !!!
John 1:14- And the Word became flesh (sarx) and dwelled among us and we beheld His glory, the glory of the only begotten from the Father full of grace and truth.
Hebrews 2- Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17For this reason he had to be made like them, k fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
Above we see the Son through the Incarnation became sarx( flesh). Hebrews 2 says He shared that same flesh we have and was like us in every way.
So if Jesus came in the flesh ( John 1:1, 1 John 4:2, 2 John 1:7) then His humanity disproves the sin nature misnomer many teach and believe or one must admit Jesus was born with a fallen corrupt sinful nature and thus born a sinner like all men are born sinners according to the doctrine of Original Sin and TD. ( Total Depravity )
You see man in not born a sinner just like Jesus was not born a sinner. Jesus never sinned yet was born innocent like all men. We become sinners when we sin and become guilty of sin. This is why babies are innocent , not guilty until they sin.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
the OP still stands irrefutable.
So no context then. LOL you talk a good game I will give you that. But keep posting stuff irrelevant to the claim you made.the OP still stands irrefutable.
civic
Active Member
I'm roasting coffee for the next couple of hours.
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