The Love of God and the Mark of the Beast

[jeremiah1five]

First, the love of God:

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:34–39.

Now, the mark of the beast:

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:4–8.

Revelation thirteen has other passages about the Beast and the image of the Beast and also taking the mark by deception.
So, here's my question(s.)

Is God's love all-encompassing that a true born-again Christian might take the number/mark - even by deceit that it doesn't matter?
Is it a sin to take the mark? If so, is that sin covered by the blood and when God applied salvation to your life in the past that it doesn't matter, because that sin is also covered?

Would a Christian be so ignorant to not know about the mark and if he/she takes it to buy and sell that that act is covered by the blood? I had thought about this situation of God's love verses taking the mark, and it is not typical of me to post something I can't defend through Scripture, but I was curious what others thought about this situation. I haven't looked thoroughly at this question right now, so I don't yet have a response or position. I'm sure going to think this through, search pertinent Scripture and take a position in time.
What do you think?

 

[armylngst]

First, the love of God:

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:34–39.

Now, the mark of the beast:

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:4–8.

Revelation thirteen has other passages about the Beast and the image of the Beast and also taking the mark by deception.
So, here's my question(s.)

Is God's love all-encompassing that a true born-again Christian might take the number/mark - even by deceit that it doesn't matter?
Is it a sin to take the mark? If so, is that sin covered by the blood and when God applied salvation to your life in the past that it doesn't matter, because that sin is also covered?

Would a Christian be so ignorant to not know about the mark and if he/she takes it to buy and sell that that act is covered by the blood? I had thought about this situation of God's love verses taking the mark, and it is not typical of me to post something I can't defend through Scripture, but I was curious what others thought about this situation. I haven't looked thoroughly at this question right now, so I don't yet have a response or position. I'm sure going to think this through, search pertinent Scripture and take a position in time.
What do you think?

Since the church isn't going to be here anyway, all believers separated from the tribulation to come as Goshen was separated from Egypt during the plagues, anyone who gets the mark is obviously not a born again Christian.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Since the church isn't going to be here anyway, all believers separated from the tribulation to come as Goshen was separated from Egypt during the plagues, anyone who gets the mark is obviously not a born again Christian.

Another false doctrine.
There is no rapture. That false teaching is the brainchild of John Nelson Darby.

 

[Selah]

Since the church isn't going to be here anyway, all believers separated from the tribulation to come as Goshen was separated from Egypt during the plagues, anyone who gets the mark is obviously not a born again Christian.

Where do you see that “the church isn't going to be here anyway?” Seriously?

 

[Fred]

Since the church isn't going to be here anyway, all believers separated from the tribulation to come as Goshen was separated from Egypt during the plagues, anyone who gets the mark is obviously not a born again Christian.

I do find it interesting that Noah and and his family were delivered from the flood that destroyed everyone else.
When speaking of the end times, Peter makes mention of this - of Lot as well. (2 Peter 2:5-9).

 

[armylngst]

Another false doctrine.
There is no rapture. That false teaching is the brainchild of John Nelson Darby.

You see, you really don't know anything. The rapture, or something like the rapture has been in the church for an incredibly long time. One of the earliest, perhaps not the earliest, mention was as far back as the 5th century. Some guy named Brother Dolcino also taught about the rapture during the prior to the 13th century if I recall the date properly. It is nothing new. Neither is a gap in Daniel's 70 week prophecy, as even John the apostle's disciple spoke of it. That doesn't mean there is a rapture, but it isn't something new. Darby studied history and scripture, and systematized beliefs that have been present going all the way back to the 1st/2nd century. He isn't that much different then a traditional millenialist except that he puts much distinction on Israel from the church, and was a futurist who believed in a millennial kingdom in Israel fulfilling God's promises/covenants.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You see, you really don't know anything. The rapture, or something like the rapture has been in the church for an incredibly long time. One of the earliest, perhaps not the earliest, mention was as far back as the 5th century. Some guy named Brother Dolcino also taught about the rapture during the prior to the 13th century if I recall the date properly. It is nothing new. Neither is a gap in Daniel's 70 week prophecy, as even John the apostle's disciple spoke of it. That doesn't mean there is a rapture, but it isn't something new. Darby studied history and scripture, and systematized beliefs that have been present going all the way back to the 1st/2nd century. He isn't that much different then a traditional millenialist except that he puts much distinction on Israel from the church, and was a futurist who believed in a millennial kingdom in Israel fulfilling God's promises/covenants.

John Nelson Darby is the one who crafted the teaching of rapture in the 1800s.

The way Jesus went UP is the same way He's coming back DOWN.

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:11.

In other words, the SAME way.

He didn't rise, stay in the air for three-and-one-half years and then finally go to His Father.
The way He went up is the same way He's coming down.
That's what Scripture says, and I believe it.

 

[Selah]

That doesn't mean there is a rapture

Well for sure, we should all know that there isn’t a pretrib rapture. How do we know this? By knowing that Satan comes at the 6th trump, the tribulation time. It’s written. Check it out in the Bible. Jesus comes after this time of tribulation—at the 7th trump. Jesus tells us, don’t be deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (NKJV) 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for [that Day will not come] unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

s e l a h

 

[armylngst]

John Nelson Darby is the one who crafted the teaching of rapture in the 1800s.

Um... no. You should research more. There are a few times in history LONG before Darby where the rapture comes up. One interesting one came from brother Dolcino prior to the 13th century I believe. (1300s or earlier.) However, he taught that the rapture were for his followers. They would be translated to Paradise to wait out the tribulation, and when the tribulation ended they would come back to Earth to be Jesus ambassadors/missionaries to all who remain. (Something like that. It isn't so clear because the historian writing on it didn't have a lot of information to go on, and I believe they wrote about it in the 1500s.) Kind of like Nestorius. Most of what we know about what he taught came from his detractors, so there is no telling how much is true...

The way Jesus went UP is the same way He's coming back DOWN.

Yep. However, when you read what Paul says in Thessalonians, it says we will meet him in the air, and thus [in the air] we will always be with Him. So, it does not seem to be speaking of His second coming, which is to Earth, as in to the ground. I do not really use this passage, but that is my understanding of what they say about it.

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:11.

And that is exactly what is wrong with Preterism.

In other words, the SAME way.

Sort of. I see His second coming in Revelation 20, where the heavens open and there is Jesus with the hosts of heaven, and they come down to Earth to destroy the armies of the beast and kings of the Earth. From heaven (the sky) to Earth, which is the same way He left. Except He is coming down in POWER to rescue Israel... personally.

He didn't rise, stay in the air for three-and-one-half years and then finally go to His Father.
The way He went up is the same way He's coming down.
That's what Scripture says, and I believe it.

Yep. However, the rapture isn't Jesus returning to Earth. So that helps. It is a method (of which more than one has come up, but I don't know what they all are personally) for God to separate the church, His people, from His wrath that He is pouring out on the Earth at the end, just prior to the consummation, right before God fulfills His promise to Israel to have one of the seed of David sitting on the throne in Jerusalem, which we know as the Millennial Kingdom. He will rule over the whole Earth from Israel, from Jerusalem. And His saving of Israel is in person, and personal. (See Zechariah.) It's coming... the salvation of Israel.

Consider the 10 plagues of Egypt. Several plagues in God made a separation between Goshen and Egypt. They avoided God's wrath on Egypt. That is one of the things that comes up, and not just recently.

 

[armylngst]

Well for sure, we should all know that there isn’t a pretrib rapture. How do we know this? By knowing that Satan comes at the 6th trump, the tribulation time. It’s written. Check it out in the Bible. Jesus comes after this time of tribulation—at the 7th trump. Jesus tells us, don’t be deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (NKJV) 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for [that Day will not come] unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

s e l a h

The rapture is not Jesus second coming. It is God removing the church from His wrath that He pours out on the Earth. One of the ways given to explain how God would keep from pouring out His wrath (WRATH) on His children.

Now the falling away is now. Perhaps the man of sin has been revealed. Perhaps it will be soon. Note that thi sperson will oppose and exalt himself about all that is called God, and that He will do that in the temple. There hasn't been a temple since 70 AD. No one set themselves insidet he temple to show that they are God. The temple was destroyed (apparently by accident) before Titus could do anything like that.

 

[Selah]

The rapture is not Jesus second coming.

Right. A pretrib rapture will never happen. The SECOND COMING will happen; you can count on it. It is written.

s e l a h

 

[armylngst]

Right. A pretrib rapture will never happen. The SECOND COMING will happen; you can count on it. It is written.

s e l a h

We don't know if a pretrib rapture will happen or not. The second coming will happen, and if there was a pretrib rapture... THAT ISN'T IT, because Jesus isn't coming to Earth at that time. Again, it is a way that the church has come up with (so long ago, we dont' know where) for God to remove the church from the outpouring of His wrath. There are other ways that have been brought up, but I didn't research so much as to find out what they all are. It is like the 10 plagues where God made a separation between Goshen and Egypt, that the Israelites in Goshen did not experience any of what the Egyptians faced for the last several plagues, except for the tenth plague. However, the tenth plague was a prophecy of sorts, specifically for Israel.

 

[Selah]

Again, it is a way that the church has come up with (so long ago, we dont' know where) for God to remove the church from the outpouring of His wrath.

…but God’s outpouring wrath is at the 7th trump (after the 6th trump tribulation when the Antichrist is here). Do you have any scriptures that tell us that the church will be removed from God’s outpouring wrath? Remember, God’s not angry with His people.

s e l a h

 

[armylngst]

…but God’s outpouring wrath is at the 7th trump (after the 6th trump tribulation when the Antichrist is here). Do you have any scriptures that tell us that the church will be removed from God’s outpouring wrath? Remember, God’s not angry with His people.

s e l a h

Thessalonians. I'm sure there are others. I haven't decided yet what I go with, pre-trib or mid-trib/pre-wrath. I have been pretrib, and I guess I have been arguing that the tribulation occurs half way through. I haven't taken a lot of time to think about it.