The Hyper Calvinist

civic

Well-known member
A hyper-Calvinist is someone who either:

  1. Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear,
  2. OR Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner,
  3. OR Denies that the gospel makes any “offer” of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal),
  4. OR Denies that there is such a thing as “common grace,”
  5. OR Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect.
All five varieties of hyper-Calvinism undermine evangelism or twist the gospel message.

Read the whole thing.

For more on this subject, see Iain Murray’s book, Spurgeon v. Hyper Calvinism: The Battle for Gospel Preaching.

@brightfame52 . I'm not aware of any other hyper on this forum.

I will add to the above a hyper calvinists is one who declares TULIP is the gospel.

hope this helps !!!
 
A hyper-Calvinist is someone who either:

  1. Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear,
  2. OR Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner,
  3. OR Denies that the gospel makes any “offer” of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal),
  4. OR Denies that there is such a thing as “common grace,”
  5. OR Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect.
All five varieties of hyper-Calvinism undermine evangelism or twist the gospel message.

Read the whole thing.

For more on this subject, see Iain Murray’s book, Spurgeon v. Hyper Calvinism: The Battle for Gospel Preaching.

@brightfame52 . I'm not aware of any other hyper on this forum.

I will add to the above a hyper calvinists is one who declares TULIP is the gospel.

hope this helps !!!
Evangelism is primarily for the sake of the elect, for their calling and conversion.

Paul put his life in danger and hazard and his evangel travels for the sake of the elect, that they may obtain the Salvation and Glory which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim 2:9-10

9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory

What can be more clearer who evangelism is for ?
 
Evangelism is primarily for the sake of the elect, for their calling and conversion.

Paul put his life in danger and hazard and his evangel travels for the sake of the elect, that they may obtain the Salvation and Glory which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim 2:9-10

9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory

What can be more clearer who evangelism is for ?
Nowhere does scripture teach the gospel is only for the elect that’s a false gospel
 
Evangelism is primarily for the sake of the elect, for their calling and conversion.

Paul put his life in danger and hazard and his evangel travels for the sake of the elect, that they may obtain the Salvation and Glory which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim 2:9-10

9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory

What can be more clearer who evangelism is for ?
The word is used 7 times in the N.T. Most by Paul in Romans 9-11 where is contradicts the Calvinists view on election. The Jews ( Gods elect,chosen ) were not saved as Paul pleads for their salvation in Romans 9-11.

Romans 9:11 N-AFS
GRK: ἡ κατ' ἐκλογὴν πρόθεσις τοῦ
NAS: according to [His] choice would stand,
KJV: according to election might stand,
INT: the according to election purpose

Romans 11:5 N-AFS
GRK: λεῖμμα κατ' ἐκλογὴν χάριτος γέγονεν
NAS: according to [God's] gracious choice.
KJV: according to the election of grace.
INT: a remnant according to election of grace there has been

Romans 11:7 N-NFS
GRK: ἡ δὲ ἐκλογὴ ἐπέτυχεν οἱ
NAS: it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained
KJV: but the election hath obtained it,
INT: but [the] elect obtained [it]

Romans 11:28 N-AFS
GRK: δὲ τὴν ἐκλογὴν ἀγαπητοὶ διὰ
NAS: but from the standpoint of [God's] choice they are beloved
KJV: as touching the election, [they are] beloved
INT: however the election beloved on account of

There is nothing clear in your belief of Romans 9-11 its full of contradictions with those chapters and the rest of the Bible and its an assault on the character and nature of God. Your passage support me not you. Do you even know where Paul is quoting from ?

Paul's concern for his fellow countrymen, the Jews/Israel below. Gods chosen people, the elect.

Romans 9

What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”

Romans 10:1
Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.

Romans 11
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

the Jews are Gods Elect/ Chosen people.

Pauls summary of Romans 9: Faith vs Works is what Paul is addressing in Romans 9. Gentiles ( non elect by faith ) Jews/Israel ( Gods elect,chosen) by works.

Romans 9
That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.

The above is the same teaching in Romans 3 below :

Romans 3
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction; 23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; 26 it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus. 27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On the principle of works? No, but on the principle of faith. 28 For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one; and he will justify the circumcised on the ground of their faith and the uncircumcised through their faith

Gods grace can be resisted just the opposite of what the reformed teach and what is in tulip.


Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Since all men are not saved and Gods grace goes out to all men, Gods grace can be resisted.

Acts 7:51
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

God the Holy Spirit can be resisted.

Hebrews 10:29
How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Here we see the Spirit of grace resisted, insulted, rejected and trampled under.

Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.


Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert!

Here we see them in the wilderness rejecting Gods grace upon them and grieving God in the process.



Resistible Grace- God grace is not irresistible.

Acts 7:51
“You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.

Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Matthew 23:37
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those having been sent to her! How often would I have gathered together your children, the way in which a hen gathers together her chicks under the wings, and you were not willing!

Proverbs 1:24
Because I have called and you refused to listen, have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded,

Isaiah 65:12
I will destine you for the sword, and you will all kneel down to be slaughtered, because I called and you did not answer, I spoke and you did not listen; you did evil in My sight and chose that in which I did not delight."

Isaiah 66:4
So I will choose their punishment and I will bring terror upon them, because I called and no one answered, I spoke and no one listened. But they did evil in My sight and chose that in which I did not delight."


Limited Atonement not found below anywhere

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.


Loraine Boettner has stated on p. 59 of his book, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination,

"prove any one of them true and all of the others will follow as logical and necessary parts of the system. Prove any one of them false and the whole system must be abandoned."

1)I have already proven irresistible grace is not true with Acts 7:51

2)I have proven the atonement is not limited- John 1:20, 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 2 Pet 3:9 and 1 John 2:2

3)I have proven that election is not unconditional- whosever will may come, that means all, everyone from numerous passages. John 1:12 John 3:16

4) I have proven reformed election is unbiblical.


hope this helps !!!
 
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The renown calvinist Scholar FF Bruce: It is a pity that in some schools of theological thought the doctrine of election has been formulated to an excessive degree on the basis of this preliminary state in Paul’s present argument, without adequate account being taken of his further exposition of God’s purpose in election at the conclusion of the argument (xi. 25-32).
Romans 9, in Genesis 18:17-19 (note also, that Paul actually quotes from this very same chapter in Romans 9:9!) bold mine:

The Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, since Abraham will surely become a great and mighty nation, and in him all the nations of the earth will be blessed? For I have chosen him, so that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice, so that the Lord may bring upon Abraham what He has spoken about him.
And in fact, we can see the fulfilment of this––that through Jesus all nations are blessed––stated in Romans 9:4, “and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever.” And in verses 24-26:

even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. As He says also in Hosea, “I will call those who were not My people, ‘My people,’ And her who was not beloved, ‘beloved.’”
“And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, ‘you are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

As Calvinist Bill MacDonald wrote, against the common Calvinist view, “God does not prepare vessels of wrath for destruction, but he does prepare vessels of mercy for glory“.[9]

FF Bruce:

While Paul will allow no questioning of God’s right to do what He will with His own, he lets his emphasis fall, not on God’s wrath towards the reprobate, but rather the postponement of His wrath against men who have long since become ripe for destruction. As has been pointed out earlier (2:4), the mercy and forbearance of God are intended to afford men time for repentance; if, instead, they harden their hearts yet more, as Pharaoh did after repeated respites, they are simply storing up an increasing weight of retribution for themselves against the day of requital. [10]
Jeremiah 18, where Paul’s illustration seems to have originated, also confirms this. There, the Prophet Jeremiah watches a potter as “the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter; so he remade it into another vessel, as it pleased the potter to make” (v 4). The Lord tells the Prophet:

“Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. So now then, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem saying, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Oh turn back, each of you from his evil way, and reform your ways and your deeds.”’ But they will say, ‘It’s hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’ (v 6-12)soteriology101
If a vessel of wrath, prepared for destruction, “turns from its evil” it becomes a vessel of mercy. And like in 2 Peter 3, God longs for it to be so: “Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Oh turn back, each of you from his evil way, and reform your ways and your deeds.” (v 11, and cf Romans 11:20 & 23)

conclusion : The Calvinist interpretation is completely divorced from the preface in Romans 9:1-5. Paul’s stated passion was Jewish conversion, and his strategy is to refute Jewish hindrances and roadblocks to conversion.

Paul says that it’s not as if the word of God has “failed.” Well, who thinks that? No one, but when his Jewish brothers hear him refute birthright assurance, then *they* will suppose God is unfair for breaking His word. So, Paul successfully refutes birthright assurance by pointing out the facts concerning the condemnation of the Edomite descendants who had a common (and superior) ancestry. (One orthodox Rabbi even suggested that the Edomite descendants will ultimately be saved, made necessary by the presumption of birthright assurance in Abraham.) Question: Is v.12 talking about the individuals or descendants? The answer is the descendants, and exclusively so, since Esau never, ever personally served Jacob, though the descendants did. Question: Is v.13 about the individuals or descendants? It must be about the descendants, or else it would leave *unresolved* the earlier point in v.6 about the descendants, in refuting birthright assurance. (Huge point.) Paul’s anticipated pushback in v.14 is about orthodox Jews thinking God is unfair for breaking His promise about a perceived birthright assurance. (See also Matthew 3:9.) Calvinists agree that Malachi 1:2-5 meant “Israel] I loved but [Edom] I hated” but then claim an “apostolic interpretation” whereby Paul changes the original meaning from descendants to individuals, but (again) that would make v.12 odd for quoting the descendants’ servitude, and it would also mean that v.13 never resolves the earlier point about descendants in v.6, and (big point), claiming an “apostolic interpretation” would leave Paul vulnerable to the charge that he was inventing a “new religion.” Paul’s whole rapport with his fellow Jews was based upon being faithful to Scripture, not unfaithful with supposed “apostolic interpretations” that change things. (Another massive point.)r.coords

After refuting birthright assurance, Paul addresses another Jewish obstacle and roadblock to conversion by refuting works-based assurance. Jewish rabbis believe that Scripture points only to one thing in obtaining righteous with God, and that is by *keeping the Law*. However, Paul often argued that no one keeps the Law, and hence no one is made righteous through a Law they do not keep. V.16’s reference to “willing” and “running” was about Jewish efforts under the Law to be made righteous, and Paul’s counter-argument is that righteousness for guilty sinners can *only* come through God’s “mercy,” rather than by keeping a Law that everyone breaks. Paul then points out the results of God’s historical warnings to harden Israel.

hope this helps !!!
 
The word is used 7 times in the N.T. Most by Paul in Romans 9-11 where is contradicts the Calvinists view on election. The Jews ( Gods elect,chosen ) were not saved as Paul pleads for their salvation in Romans 9-11.

Romans 9:11 N-AFS
GRK: ἡ κατ' ἐκλογὴν πρόθεσις τοῦ
NAS: according to [His] choice would stand,
KJV: according to election might stand,
INT: the according to election purpose

Romans 11:5 N-AFS
GRK: λεῖμμα κατ' ἐκλογὴν χάριτος γέγονεν
NAS: according to [God's] gracious choice.
KJV: according to the election of grace.
INT: a remnant according to election of grace there has been

Romans 11:7 N-NFS
GRK: ἡ δὲ ἐκλογὴ ἐπέτυχεν οἱ
NAS: it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained
KJV: but the election hath obtained it,
INT: but [the] elect obtained [it]

Romans 11:28 N-AFS
GRK: δὲ τὴν ἐκλογὴν ἀγαπητοὶ διὰ
NAS: but from the standpoint of [God's] choice they are beloved
KJV: as touching the election, [they are] beloved
INT: however the election beloved on account of

There is nothing clear in your belief of Romans 9-11 its full of contradictions with those chapters and the rest of the Bible and its an assault on the character and nature of God. Your passage support me not you. Do you even know where Paul is quoting from ?

Paul's concern for his fellow countrymen, the Jews/Israel below. Gods chosen people, the elect.

Romans 9

What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”

Romans 10:1
Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.

Romans 11
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

the Jews are Gods Elect/ Chosen people.

Pauls summary of Romans 9: Faith vs Works is what Paul is addressing in Romans 9. Gentiles ( non elect by faith ) Jews/Israel ( Gods elect,chosen) by works.

Romans 9
That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.

The above is the same teaching in Romans 3 below :

Romans 3
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction; 23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; 26 it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus. 27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On the principle of works? No, but on the principle of faith. 28 For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one; and he will justify the circumcised on the ground of their faith and the uncircumcised through their faith

Gods grace can be resisted just the opposite of what the reformed teach and what is in tulip.


Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Since all men are not saved and Gods grace goes out to all men, Gods grace can be resisted.

Acts 7:51
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

God the Holy Spirit can be resisted.

Hebrews 10:29
How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Here we see the Spirit of grace resisted, insulted, rejected and trampled under.

Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.


Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert!

Here we see them in the wilderness rejecting Gods grace upon them and grieving God in the process.



Resistible Grace- God grace is not irresistible.

Acts 7:51
“You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.

Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Matthew 23:37
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those having been sent to her! How often would I have gathered together your children, the way in which a hen gathers together her chicks under the wings, and you were not willing!

Proverbs 1:24
Because I have called and you refused to listen, have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded,

Isaiah 65:12
I will destine you for the sword, and you will all kneel down to be slaughtered, because I called and you did not answer, I spoke and you did not listen; you did evil in My sight and chose that in which I did not delight."

Isaiah 66:4
So I will choose their punishment and I will bring terror upon them, because I called and no one answered, I spoke and no one listened. But they did evil in My sight and chose that in which I did not delight."


Limited Atonement not found below anywhere

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.


Loraine Boettner has stated on p. 59 of his book, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination,

"prove any one of them true and all of the others will follow as logical and necessary parts of the system. Prove any one of them false and the whole system must be abandoned."

1)I have already proven irresistible grace is not true with Acts 7:51

2)I have proven the atonement is not limited- John 1:20, 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 2 Pet 3:9 and 1 John 2:2

3)I have proven that election is not unconditional- whosever will may come, that means all, everyone from numerous passages. John 1:12 John 3:16

4) I have proven reformed election is unbiblical.


hope this helps !!!
Pauls primary objective in preaching the Gospel and enduring hard times and suffering for it, was so the Elect may be converted with the Salvation which is in Christ Jesus with Eternal Glory 2 Tim 2:9-10

9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
 
There is no power in your gospel. No man can believe it

and those enabled to believe are already saved
As a word of Salvation, the Gospel is for the Elect, that they may obtain Salvation which is in Christ Jesus. That lets us know who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
 
As a word of Salvation, the Gospel is for the Elect, that they may obtain Salvation which is in Christ Jesus. That lets us know who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Sorry but you unbiblically place election outside of Christ
 
Pauls primary objective in preaching the Gospel and enduring hard times and suffering for it, was so the Elect may be converted with the Salvation which is in Christ Jesus with Eternal Glory 2 Tim 2:9-10

9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Amazing.... Just utterly amazing.....

I thought God draws/drags all the elect to Himself regardless of circumstances. (first/primary cause)..... Yet here you are claiming the necessity of Paul.

You're about about as consistent as a dead clock.
 
Huh?

for the elect's sake that THEY may also obtain salvation which is in Christ Jesus

No. You teach that YOU are the target of election. You are removing Christ. No Glorifying Christ.

I've asked you this before and you ignored it.

If you are targeted for conformity then..... Where exactly do you actually have any standing at all?
 
As a word of Salvation, the Gospel is for the Elect, that they may obtain Salvation which is in Christ Jesus. That lets us know who Salvation in Christ is for, the Elect 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

An unnamed and unquantified group. I don't see YOU there anywhere.
 
Amazing.... Just utterly amazing.....

I thought God draws/drags all the elect to Himself regardless of circumstances.
(first/primary cause)..... Yet here you are claiming the necessity of Paul.

You're about about as consistent as a dead clock.
Thats what you get for thinking lol
 
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