The Gospel Of Salvation

The Gospel is multifaceted, Tulip is included.
Thats your way of repeating "Twisted Scripture" misconceptions that Christians have been told about the Bible.

The primary problem with Calvinism is its philosophical presupposition that God meticulously controls every detail of human history, including who will believe and who will not. This philosophical underpinning leads to interpreting Scripture through a lens that was never intended. The Bible expressly warns against integrating philosophy with divine revelation.

In Colossians 2:8, Paul writes, “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.”
Philosophy and human reasoning cannot override the plain teaching of Scripture.

God invites all to seek Him and respond.

Acts 17:30: “Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent.”
The universal command to repent contradicts the Calvinist idea that only the elect are capable of repentance.
 
Thats your way of repeating "Twisted Scripture" misconceptions that Christians have been told about the Bible.

The primary problem with Calvinism is its philosophical presupposition that God meticulously controls every detail of human history, including who will believe and who will not. This philosophical underpinning leads to interpreting Scripture through a lens that was never intended. The Bible expressly warns against integrating philosophy with divine revelation.


Philosophy and human reasoning cannot override the plain teaching of Scripture.

God invites all to seek Him and respond.


The universal command to repent contradicts the Calvinist idea that only the elect are capable of repentance.
The Gospel is multifaceted, Tulip is included. If you deny Tulip you have no Gospel at all except a false one
 
101G have a question concerning your statement above. "Sent by God to save his people?". but was it not God who came? let's check the record Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."​
so, according to the scriptures, God came.... READ ISAIAH 35:4 AGAIN. so, are you saying that Jesus is God? yes or no, if so, then you have two Gods.​
looking to hear your response.​
101 G​
'Say to them that are of a fearful heart,
Be strong, fear not:
behold, your God will come with vengeance,
even God with a recompence;
He will come and save you.'
(Isa 35:4)​

Hello @101G, (Ref: reply#5)

Isaiah 35:4 refers to the second coming of the Lord? For the words, 'vengence'. and, 'recompence' are in keeping with the coming of the Lord in judgement. Salvation will be the outcome for Israel as a nation at that time (Rom. 11:26), for they will see the returning Christ and come to repentance.

'And He came to Nazareth,
where He had been brought up:
and, as His custom was,
He went into the synagogue on the sabbath day,
and stood up for to read.
And there was delivered unto Him the book of the prophet Esaias.
And when He had opened the book,
He found the place where it was written,
,, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
.... because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor;
...... He hath sent me to heal the broken-hearted,
........ to preach deliverance to the captives,
.......... and recovering of sight to the blind,
............ to set at liberty them that are bruised,
.............. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord." (Isaiah 61:1-2)
And He closed the book,
and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down.
And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him.
And He began to say unto them,
"This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears."
(Luke 4:16-21)​

* 'To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, ' - this is where the Lord stopped, and said. 'This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears' . For the words that followed had, and still has, to be fulfilled. ' ... the day of vengeance of our God;' (Isaiah 61:2)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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'Say to them that are of a fearful heart,
Be strong, fear not:
behold,
your God will come with vengeance,
even God with a recompence;
He will come and save you.'
(Isa 35:4)

Hello @101G, :)

I believe you were so eager to emphasise the Deity of Christ expressed in the wording of Isaiah 35:4, that you failed to register the fact that this verse was related to the second coming, and not the first.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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'And many other signs truly did Jesus
in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life
through his name.'

(Joh 20:30-31)

Praise God!
 
The Gospel as it is sent out into all the world, to the reprobate, to them Gods purpose is that it will be a savour of death unto death and the ground of worse condemnation 2 Cor2:14-16

14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

The preaching of the gospel, and particularly the call of the gospel, has a twofold effect and that this effect is determined by God’s purpose in election and reprobation.
 
The Gospel as it is sent out into all the world, to the reprobate, to them Gods purpose is that it will be a savour of death unto death and the ground of worse condemnation 2 Cor2:14-16

14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

The preaching of the gospel, and particularly the call of the gospel, has a twofold effect and that this effect is determined by God’s purpose in election and reprobation.
It would be absurd to think that God calls some people to repent just in appearance, but in reality is calling them to remain unrepented.
There is no hint whatsoever in any of the Messages conveyed by God, throughout the Bible, of such schizophrenic nature.

In 2 Cor 2 Paul presents the results, from his human perpective, and not the purpose, from God’s perspective, from having preached the gospel.
But Paul himself preached so that all his listeners would repent, accept the gospel and change their ways.
Preaching to king Agrippa we read in the book of Acts what the purpose of Paul was:

Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to be a Christian.”
Paul said, “I pray to God that not only you, but all who hear me this day, might become not only almost, but thoroughly and altogether, what I am, except for these chains.” (Acts 26:28, 29)
 
@Pancho Frijoles

It would be absurd to think that God calls some people to repent just in appearance, but in reality is calling them to remain unrepented.
There is no hint whatsoever in any of the Messages conveyed by God, throughout the Bible, of such schizophrenic nature.

God only calls the regenerated elect to repentance, He only gives them repentance as well .

Now the reprobate are responsible to believe the Truths of the Gospel, because its Gods Truth, and when they dont believe it, they call God a liar because they dont believe the record he has given of His Son, but He never offered them salvation, believing God is a duty to all His creatures, lest you make Him a liar 1 Jn 5:10

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

For instance, If the Truths of TULIP gives a accurate testimony to the Person and Work of Jesus Christ, and that testimony is rejected, then thats like calling God a liar.
 
God only calls the regenerated elect to repentance,
This is not what I understood from your first sentence in post 752.
Could you please explain what you meant by “the Gospel as it is sent out into the world…”?
He only gives them repentance as well .

Now the reprobate are responsible to believe the Truths of the Gospel, because its Gods Truth, and when they dont believe it, they call God a liar because they dont believe the record he has given of His Son, but He never offered them salvation, believing God is a duty to all His creatures, lest you make Him a liar 1 Jn 5:10
How could they be held responsible for something they are unable to do?
We both agree that responding to the Gospel is a gift from God… but you think that God denies such gift to some people. Then, how can they be held responsible?
Are you responsible for not being able to fly like the birds?
I encourage you to reflect on the meaning of “responsible” and let us know what you think “responsible” means.
 
God only calls the regenerated elect to repentance, He only gives them repentance as well .

Now the reprobate are responsible to believe the Truths of the Gospel, because its Gods Truth, and when they dont believe it, they call God a liar because they dont believe the record he has given of His Son, but He never offered them salvation, believing God is a duty to all His creatures, lest you make Him a liar 1 Jn 5:10

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

For instance, If the Truths of TULIP gives a accurate testimony to the Person and Work of Jesus Christ, and that testimony is rejected, then thats like calling God a liar.
Incorrect brother.

God’s Call to Repentance and Free Will:
First, the idea that God only calls the regenerated elect to repentance is problematic from both a linguistic and a theological perspective. The Scriptures clearly present God’s call to repentance as something that extends to all people, not just the elect.

Acts 17:30 (Greek): "Ἀγνοήματα ὁ Θεὸς ὑπερορῶν, νῦν παραγγέλλει τοῖς ἀνθρώποις πάντας πανταχοῦ μετανοεῖν"
Translation: "The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all people everywhere to repent."

The verb παραγγέλλει ("commands") is in the present tense, indicating an ongoing and universal command to all people, not just to the elect. The word πάντας ("all") leaves no room for exclusion, meaning everyone, without exception, is called to repentance.

2. Repentance: A Gift or a Command?
You’ve mentioned that God "only gives repentance" to the elect, but let's examine the linguistic implications of repentance in Scripture. Repentance is often described as a command to all people, regardless of their regeneration status.

Acts 5:31 (Greek): "Τοῦτον ὁ Θεὸς ἐξ αὐτοῦ ἀρχηγὸν καὶ σωτῆρα ἐποίησεν τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις, τοῦτο τοῦς ἀναστῆναι τοῖς ἐκλεκτοῖς Ἰσραήλ, ἀλλὰ καὶ τοῖς ἐθνικοῖς."
Translation: "God exalted him to his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins."

Here, repentance is clearly a command that God gives, not just a privilege for the elect. The notion that God only gives it to the elect is not substantiated in this passage, which indicates that repentance is a gift made available to all who are willing to receive it, not exclusive to the regenerated.

3. 1 John 5:10 and the Rejection of the Truth:
You cite 1 John 5:10 to argue that those who do not believe the gospel make God a liar. Let's carefully explore the Greek and context of this passage:

1 John 5:10 (Greek): "Ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ ἔχει τὸ μαρτύριον ἐν αὐτῷ· ὁ μὴ πιστεύων τῷ Θεῷ ἐποίησεν αὐτὸν ψευδή, ὅτι οὐκ ἐπίστευσεν εἰς τὸ μαρτύριον ὃ ἐμαρτύρησεν ὁ Θεὸς περὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ."
Translation: "The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has borne concerning His Son."

The word πιστεύων ("the one who believes") and πιστεύων τῷ Θεῷ ("the one who believes God") are in the present tense, meaning this is an ongoing act of belief or disbelief. The word μαρτύριον ("testimony") is also key here, as it refers to the gospel message that God has revealed about His Son.

However, the rejection of this testimony doesn’t imply that God never offered salvation to them. It simply means that their rejection of the truth makes them culpable for their unbelief. The passage doesn’t support the idea that they were predetermined to reject the gospel, but rather that their rejection is their own responsibility, a result of their free will.

4. The "TULIP" and the Testimony of Christ:
You bring up TULIP (the acronym representing Calvinistic theology: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Saints), and argue that if it accurately represents the person and work of Christ, rejecting it is like calling God a liar.

However, the core issue is not about accepting or rejecting TULIP as a doctrinal framework but about the gospel message—the testimony of Christ. The Greek term ἄπιστος ("unbeliever," from the root ἀπιστέω, meaning "to not believe") in numerous passages, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:12, shows that those who do not believe in the gospel are guilty of rejecting God’s truth, not a specific doctrinal system like TULIP.

To call God a liar is to reject His witness concerning His Son, as you correctly pointed out with 1 John 5:10. But this rejection is rooted in the individual’s willful unbelief. It’s not that God’s offer of salvation is limited or withheld from certain people from the beginning. The offer is universal, and rejection is a personal choice.



Universal Call to Repentance: The Greek in Acts 17:30 shows that God calls all people to repentance, not just the elect. The rejection of repentance is a personal choice, not a predetermined fate.

Repentance as a Command: The Scriptures teach that repentance is a command (not a gift only for the elect). Acts 5:31 shows repentance as something available to all, not just the regenerate.

1 John 5:10: Unbelief in the testimony of the Son makes people culpable for their actions, but this rejection is volitional. God’s offer of salvation is extended to all, and rejection of it is what makes them call God a liar, not the inability to believe it.

TULIP and the Gospel: Whether or not one subscribes to TULIP, the key point is the rejection of the gospel message. This rejection, according to the Scriptures, is a matter of personal responsibility and free will, not a result of God withholding salvation from anyone.

Theologically speaking, Scripture does not support the idea that God only offers salvation to the elect or that some people are predestined to reject Him without a choice. Rather, God offers salvation freely to all, and it is through human response (faith and repentance) that people either accept or reject His offer.

J.
 
This is not what I understood from your first sentence in post 752.
Could you please explain what you meant by “the Gospel as it is sent out into the world…”?

How could they be held responsible for something they are unable to do?
We both agree that responding to the Gospel is a gift from God… but you think that God denies such gift to some people. Then, how can they be held responsible?
Are you responsible for not being able to fly like the birds?
I encourage you to reflect on the meaning of “responsible” and let us know what you think “responsible” means.
I already explained what I meant, you dont understand it, I cant help you. Why keep explaining to one who doesnt understand in the first place. If a person was teachable and understood the basics, we could build from there.
 
@Johann

Acts 17:30 (Greek): "Ἀγνοήματα ὁ Θεὸς ὑπερορῶν, νῦν παραγγέλλει τοῖς ἀνθρώποις πάντας πανταχοῦ μετανοεῖν"
Translation: "The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all people everywhere to repent."

Thats to the elect
 
I already explained what I meant, you dont understand it, I cant help you. Why keep explaining to one who doesnt understand in the first place. If a person was teachable and understood the basics, we could build from there.
No worries.
I understand we sometimes get tired to repeat ourselves.
If you don’t mind, when you have the time and feel less tired, I would like to know what is the meaning of God holding people responsible for not accepting the gospel, when they are by nature unable to accept it and will not receive the gift to accept it.
 
No worries.
I understand we sometimes get tired to repeat ourselves.
If you don’t mind, when you have the time and feel less tired, I would like to know what is the meaning of God holding people responsible for not accepting the gospel, when they are by nature unable to accept it and will not receive the gift to accept it.
Dont expect me to explain that to you. You have been too adverse towards the things I post.
 
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