The fallacy of eternity being a timeless state.

[TibiasDad]

Physical is, by definition, determined by the physics of this universe. There is no other.

With God all things are possible; even a universe with different physical laws.

“Behold, I am making all things new!” Things are physical, but not necessarily physical in the way we understand them today.

Jesus’s resurrected physical body was the same physical body he had before, but was able to appear and disappear; we can’t do that now, but who knows what can be done in the new earth reality. Jesus’s body was physical was it not? So shall be the New Heavens and the New Earth , but it’s a different kind of physical!


Doug

 

[Jim]

With God all things are possible; even a universe with different physical laws.

Well yes, but I don't see anything in scripture to suggest that.

“Behold, I am making all things new!” Things are physical, but not necessarily physical in the way we understand them today.

But we don't know of any such nonphysical physical universes and, again, I don't see even a suggestion of any such thing.

Jesus’s resurrected physical body was the same physical body he had before, but was able to appear and disappear;

But that is nothing more than a miracle that Jesus and the disciple did a lot of.

we can’t do that now, but who knows what can be done in the new earth reality. Jesus’s body was physical was it not? So shall be the New Heavens and the New Earth , but it’s a different kind of physical!

I, personally, do not believe that Jesus entered heaven in the body that he had here on earth. I think that He once again assumed His existence that he had before taking on the body of man.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Well yes, but I don't see anything in scripture to suggest that.

But we don't know of any such nonphysical physical universes and, again, I don't see even a suggestion of any such thing.

But that is nothing more than a miracle that Jesus and the disciple did a lot of.

I, personally, do not believe that Jesus entered heaven in the body that he had here on earth. I think that He once again assumed His existence that he had before taking on the body of man.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Can you scripturally support your beliefs? There is enough scripture that describes what you do not believe, please show us scripture that describes why the other scripture is wrong.

Your, John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

says nothing to support your ideas that nothing physical will be tangible once out of this life.

 

[TibiasDad]

But we don't know of any such nonphysical physical universes and, again, I don't see even a suggestion of any such thing.

I didn’t say a non physical physical universe for that is a self stultifying concept. I said that it is physical reality that is different from what we see, as per the 1400 mile high walls that would be 1338 miles into outer space in our world.

That the description is of a physical reality is sufficient enough to assume that it will exist; otherwise God’s going to have to explain why reality is so different than what he inspired John to write. If it is a “metaphor” the question then is for what is it a metaphor? Is that a physical reality or concept?

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

But that is nothing more than a miracle that Jesus and the disciple did a lot of.

So if it is a miracle here, why can’t that be a normal reality somewhere else, like in a new Earth?

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

I, personally, do not believe that Jesus entered heaven in the body that he had here on earth. I think that He once again assumed His existence that he had before taking on the body of man.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Glory doesn’t have anything to do with being physical or not. Glory is what someone is worthy of having. He is worthy of glory, honor, worship and praise! (Rev 5:12) He always was and was now returning to the glory that was his reality before he took on flesh in the flesh he had taken on.

Doug

 

[civic]

Well yes, but I don't see anything in scripture to suggest that.

But we don't know of any such nonphysical physical universes and, again, I don't see even a suggestion of any such thing.

But that is nothing more than a miracle that Jesus and the disciple did a lot of.

I, personally, do not believe that Jesus entered heaven in the body that he had here on earth. I think that He once again assumed His existence that he had before taking on the body of man.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

So Jesus Resurrection was not physical then right ?

 

[Jim]

Can you scripturally support your beliefs? There is enough scripture that describes what you do not believe, please show us scripture that describes why the other scripture is wrong.

Your, John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

says nothing to support your ideas that nothing physical will be tangible once out of this life.

No, I cannot support it biblically. But it seems to me that any and all descriptions of the heavenlies are all metaphoric representations. I think there are reasons for that.

I can support the fact that Jesus, the Son, the second person of the Trinity was Spirit before He took on the flesh and blood of human beings. He is God. God is Spirit. I think John 17:5 is Jesus' prayer to restore Him as He was before. That is retore Him to Spirit.

 

[TibiasDad]

I think John 17:5 is Jesus' prayer to restore Him as He was before. That is retore Him to Spirit.

Where is “glory” ever a synonym for “spirit”?

Doug

 

[Jim]

Where is “glory” ever a synonym for “spirit”?

Doug

It is not, but his former glory was as the divine Spirit.

 

[FreeInChrist]

No, I cannot support it biblically. But it seems to me

There is your problem..... It seems to you, without biblical support.

There is a lot among the beliefs of everyone in this and other forums that cannot be "supported" biblically but at the same time there are enough nouggats of info regarding each belief there that the idea that one forms have somwe sort of a base.... and that covers every debate in these threads.... and is the reaosn for the debates because everyone has the scriptures to prove their side.

I believe there is a reason for this. It is in its infancy so I will say no more.... but if I were to tell you a couple of my thoughts that have a biblical basis you would call me daft. One being that I do not believe Adam was the first man in the way you all think.

NO... another time and another place/thread for that.

I could go on and on but wont.... ther then to suggest you read a good translation of the Book of Enoch... there are sevral and some are truly questionable..... for it is included in the Ethiopian bible
It is included in the biblical canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

And the Book of Enoch is referenced in the New Testament (specifically in the Epistle of Jude).

that any and all descriptions of the heavenlies are all metaphoric representations. I think there are reasons for that.

Especially get thee into the Book of Enoch... if you need a reference let us know.

I can support the fact that Jesus, the Son, the second person of the Trinity was Spirit before He took on the flesh and blood of human beings. He is God. God is Spirit. I think John 17:5 is Jesus' prayer to restore Him as He was before. That is retore Him to Spirit.

 

[Jim]

There is your problem..... It seems to you, without biblical support.

I don't see that as a problem. None of those things have any effect upon my being justified and regenerated.

There is a lot among the beliefs of everyone in this and other forums that cannot be "supported" biblically but at the same time there are enough nouggats of info regarding each belief there that the idea that one forms have somwe sort of a base.... and that covers every debate in these threads.... and is the reaosn for the debates because everyone has the scriptures to prove their side.

Support, not prove.

I believe there is a reason for this. It is in its infancy so I will say no more.... but if I were to tell you a couple of my thoughts that have a biblical basis you would call me daft. One being that I do not believe Adam was the first man in the way you all think.

I agree. But Adam was the first humanoid to whom God gave a spirit.

 

[TibiasDad]

It is not, but his former glory was as the divine Spirit.

But it doesn’t have to be limited to being a spirit creature.

Doug

 

[Jim]

But it doesn’t have to be limited to being a spirit creature.

Doug

That is correct, it doesn't have to be limited. But There is absolutely no indication that there is any physical or corporal aspect to heaven. All references to heaven and heavenly things presented in physical or corporal terms must, I believe, be metaphporical.

 

[TibiasDad]

That is correct, it doesn't have to be limited. But There is absolutely no indication that there is any physical or corporal aspect to heaven. All references to heaven and heavenly things presented in physical or corporal terms must, I believe, be metaphporical.

Again, that they are described as physical and corporal is a very good indication that that are precisely that. If they weren’t, then the scripture could have clearly stated that these things are not physical realities. It says they are X,Y, and Z, not that X,Y, and Z represent X2,Y2 and Z2!

Doug

 

[civic]

That is correct, it doesn't have to be limited. But There is absolutely no indication that there is any physical or corporal aspect to heaven. All references to heaven and heavenly things presented in physical or corporal terms must, I believe, be metaphporical.

Yet the Resurrected Christ has a physical body. How can someone physical exists in a non physical space with no time or matter ?

 

[Jim]

Yet the Resurrected Christ has a physical body. How can someone physical exists in a non physical space with no time or matter ?

Where does it say that anyone does?

 

[FreeInChrist]

I agree. But Adam was the first humanoid to whom God gave a spirit.

Wonderful.... we agree on something

 

[Jim]

Wonderful.... we agree on something

Oh come on. We actually agree on quite a lot.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Oh come on. We actually agree on quite a lot.

LOL, I know....