The fallacy of eternity being a timeless state.

[Diserner]

Only God is timeless, that is outside of time.

All of creation is in some kind of time.

 

[Jim]

I am of the opinion that much of what has been written about concerning what heaven looks like is termed in descriptions that we can understand in our conceptual capacity.

The New Heavens and the New Earth are very different from what we have now, in that there are no more seas, sun, death, births, or decay in the sense of our experience.

I believe that heaven will be strictly an existence of the spirit involving no physical or corporal existence at all.

If time is the measurement of the space between one reality and a change in that reality, then assuming we are living, mobile people, we would necessarily be here at one point of reference and there at another. The space between these realities would be quantified as time.

I think heaven is and will be for us devoid of the physical features of space and time.

 

[Jim]

Only God is timeless, that is outside of time.

All of creation is in some kind of time.

All physical creation is constrained to exist within time. There is spiritual creation, such as angels, that is outside of time.

 

[TibiasDad]

I believe that heaven will be strictly an existence of the spirit involving no physical or corporal existence at all.

I think heaven is and will be for us devoid of the physical features of space and time.

If Jesus’s body was resurrected physically, and that same body ascended into heaven, then there is necessarily “space” in which that body exists. And if there is activity occurring, then there is a before, during and after “time” to that activity.

Again, when all things are made new, that means “time” may be different in some sense from our current perspective, but we cannot know that until we are there.

There is no logical explanation, given the resurrection of a physical Jesus, to assume no space/time dynamic exists in a New Heaven and New Earth.

Doug

 

[Jim]

If Jesus’s body was resurrected physically, and that same body ascended into heaven, then there is necessarily “space” in which that body exists. And if there is activity occurring, then there is a before, during and after “time” to that activity.

Jesus left the earth in physical bodily form; but there is no indication that He arrived in heaven in that same bodily form. You can believe that if you want; I do not.

Again, when all things are made new, that means “time” may be different in some sense from our current perspective, but we cannot know that until we are there.

Time is a physical measure. Many believe it is the result of the second law of thermodynamics. That is the only law which does not hold for both positive and negative time.

There is no logical explanation, given the resurrection of a physical Jesus, to assume no space/time dynamic exists in a New Heaven and New Earth.

Given that everything in the bible expressing life to come in the new heaven and new earth is given in highly metaphoric descriptions I think that is logic enough to assume the absence of any thing in a physical sense, anything that we experience.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I believe that heaven will be strictly an existence of the spirit involving no physical or corporal existence at all.

I think heaven is and will be for us devoid of the physical features of space and time.

@Jim, while you’ve presented this as a personal belief, it does make claims about what Scripture teaches, so it’s fair to test it against the Bible rather than leave it as opinion.

Your view is understandable, but it doesn’t fully align with what Scripture presents.

The Bible consistently points not to a purely spiritual, non-physical existence, but to a restored, glorified, and still real embodied life.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul teaches a resurrection body~not a disembodied spirit. When he calls it a “spiritual body,” that doesn’t mean non-physical; it means a body transformed and governed by the Spirit.

In Luke 24:39, after the resurrection, Jesus said, “a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

Philippians 3:21 also says our bodies will be transformed, not discarded.

And in Revelation 21, we see a new heaven and new earth, which points to a restored creation—not the absence of space, time, or physical reality.

So while there may be a temporary state where the spirit is with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8), the final hope presented in Scripture is resurrection and renewal, not permanent disembodiment.

The idea of a purely non-physical eternity seems to come more from philosophical influence than from the Bible itself. Scripture consistently points toward God redeeming His creation, not abandoning it.

The Bible doesn’t teach that eternity is less real or less tangible, it teaches that it will be more complete, with both spirit and a glorified, incorruptible body.

 

[Jim]

@Jim, while you’ve presented this as a personal belief, it does make claims about what Scripture teaches, so it’s fair to test it against the Bible rather than leave it as opinion.

Your view is understandable, but it doesn’t fully align with what Scripture presents.

The Bible consistently points not to a purely spiritual, non-physical existence, but to a restored, glorified, and still real embodied life.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul teaches a resurrection body~not a disembodied spirit. When he calls it a “spiritual body,” that doesn’t mean non-physical; it means a body transformed and governed by the Spirit.

In Luke 24:39, after the resurrection, Jesus said, “a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

Philippians 3:21 also says our bodies will be transformed, not discarded.

And in Revelation 21, we see a new heaven and new earth, which points to a restored creation—not the absence of space, time, or physical reality.

So while there may be a temporary state where the spirit is with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8), the final hope presented in Scripture is resurrection and renewal, not permanent disembodiment.

The idea of a purely non-physical eternity seems to come more from philosophical influence than from the Bible itself. Scripture consistently points toward God redeeming His creation, not abandoning it.

The Bible doesn’t teach that eternity is less real or less tangible, it teaches that it will be more complete, with both spirit and a glorified, incorruptible body.

All you have to do to convince me of your thinking on this is to provide a reasonably precise and accurate description of what the spiritual body will look like, feel like, sound like, smell like, and what it will be made of.

 

[FreeInChrist]

All you have to do to convince me of your thinking on this is to provide a reasonably precise and accurate description of what the spiritual body will look like, feel like, sound like, smell like, and what it will be made of.

Jim, I will try but at the moment family is here for the weekend and on Monday I am taking my laptop to exchange for a new one so I may not be on here for a week or so.... but Ill certainly see what I can find.

 

[Jim]

Jim, I will try but at the moment family is here for the weekend and on Monday I am taking my laptop to exchange for a new one so I may not be on here for a week or so.... but Ill certainly see what I can find.

I will wish you much, much luck with that.

 

[Predestined]

To be biblical, any answer must be also rational.
We are endowed with reason, just as we are endowed with text of Scriptures.
An answer taken from the text that contradicts reason is not a manifestation of faith, but of superstition: a sheer rejection of God’s gift.

Miracles are not rational or explainable. God is Miraculous and spoke everything into existence ex nihilo.

 

[civic]

Miracles are not rational or explainable. God is Miraculous and spoke everything into existence ex nihilo.

Amen !!!