The Eternal Son

[civic]

@civic

Civic, in one true biblical sense, he is according to Isaiah 9:6, if you think not, then please, give your understanding of Isaiah 9:6.

In one true biblical sense, Jesus according to his human nature is the Son of God! But, as God of Genesis 1:1 he is the everlasting Father of all things. If you reject this, then please give your understanding by all means, I want to hear it.

If you refuse to speak concerning Isa. 9:6, then you do not have the right to call my understanding a heresy for it is far from that.

The Lord our God is ONE God, manifest as three only according to the work of redemption for God's elect.

No Jesus is the Son of God as to His Divine nature
And He is the son of man according to His human nature.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, the King of kings, and Lord of lords, was not written in a step by step chronological order from 4:1- until Revelation 20:9; which is easily to prove since the world comes to an end in Revelation 6:17! Most chapters bewtween Revelation 4:1 to Revelation 20:9, gives to us "several" bird's eye view of that which takes place from Christ's death and resurrection to his second coming to judge the wicked and cast them into the lake of fire, which will be this earth when it and all the wicked are destroyed by fire in the last day of the judgement of the great God, Jesus Christ, who is the express image of His father.

So your point is without any scriptural support by trying to say, that Revelation 17:4 is not the same Lord of lord as Revelation 19:16.

Revelation 17:14
“These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”

Revelation 19:16​

“And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

They both are the same person as this verse:

1st Timothy 6:14-16​

“That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”

You will meet him sooner than you think or desire to do, since you reject him as who He truly is! Your doctrine is antichrist and will perish with you as you read those words: KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS!

This part of Mystery Babylon its commerce and entertainment is destroyed by the coming of the KING of KINGS and LORD of LORDS when this earth, (which IS Mystery Babylon with its false religions which was destroyed first in Revelation 17:16,17; and it entertainment and commerce ~ Revelation 18.) comes to its end when Mystery Babylon has totally fallen and is no more.

1 Timothy 6:14-16 doesn't say Jesus is the "King of kings and Lord of lords" but rather Jesus would show who that is. It's referring to Jesus revealing who God is. Jesus is never called the "King of kings and Lord of lords" anywhere in the Bible.

Aside from Jesus on earth and the rider in heaven being in two different places, there are several other decriptors of the rider on the white horse that also prove that it isn't Jesus.

For example, In Revelation 19:11 it says, "With righteousness He judges and wages war." Jesus didn't wage a war, which would mean he instigated or initiated a war, but rather responded to aggressors who waged war against the church in Revelation 12:17,13:7, 17:14.

The LORD of Hosts in the OT did, however, frequently initiated wars such as in Sodom in Gomorrah (Genesis 19), the plagues of Egypt and the Red Sea (Exodus 7-14), the Amalekites (Exodus 7:8-16), Canaan (Joshua 6-12), Midian (Nubers 31:1-18), etc.

And that's just the beginning of the passage beginning in Revelation 19:11. There's a lot more ways the rider is not described as Jesus.

 

[Red Baker]

@civic

No Jesus is the Son of God as to His Divine nature

civic, you better rethink this!

Civic ~ "What part of Jesus Christ was derived from God?"

Surely not his Divine Nature! if One God can be derived, why not many? Many Mighty Gods and Everlasting Fathers, (there not many, but ONE, revealed to us as three, according to their work in the affairs of creation, and the salvation of the elect seed of Jesus Christ) many first Causes, and last End of all things! The Eternal Spirit of God is not capable of diminution or divisibility, that is an impossibility. This would be going against what his word teaches us, that we should have no other gods before Him.

Pagans believed in the power of propagation of their gods, we as Bible Christians do not. The Bible demands belief in nothing of this kind, relative to our heavenly Father.

Jesus Divine nature was "NOT" begotten, only his human nature! The Word in the beginning was God, without qualification, period.

Again, I ask you to give your understanding of Isaiah 9:6. If you say that I'm wrong, then prove it, if you cannot prove it, then you should at least be kind enough to stop saying I'm teaching heresy, when I know that I am not.

 

[DavidTree]

Obviously Jesus is just as much the light of the world as his disciples are, as he clearly taught, yet neither of them are the light in the same sense God is. God is the one who gives light, people like Jesus and his disciples are those who received it. Don't you think Jesus practice what he preaches? The same laws, rules, commands, covenant and teachings he learend and obeyed are the same things he taught to his disciples to obey.

JESUS is YHWH

 

[civic]

JESUS is YHWH

Yes indeed the Eternal Son is the Eternal YHWH

 

[Dizerner]

Angels are sons of God, Adam was a son of God.

Jesus is only firstborn if he is born first.

 

[DavidTree]

Angels are sons of God, Adam was a son of God.

Jesus is only firstborn if he is born first.

YES and NO

YES = JESUS is the firstborn man resurrected unto Eternal Glorification over all of Creation.

NO = JESUS is NOT the firstborn among mankind

 

[Dizerner]

YES and NO

heh

 

[DavidTree]

heh

Post 747 UPdated

 

[DavidTree]

heh

YES and NO

YES = JESUS is the firstborn man resurrected unto Eternal Glorification over all of Creation.

NO = JESUS is NOT the firstborn among mankind = Adam was the firstborn of mankind

 

[Red Baker]

@civic

Yes indeed the Eternal Son

civic, if Jesus is literally God's eternal son, then I ask you this question: "Are we his eternal children" ~ for you cannot separate Jesus Christ from the members of his elect body which all of the very elect are.

Brother, you need to rethink you position.

When stripped of all artificial verbiage, the naked question returns: Is Jesus Christ absolutely, eternally independently, underived, the very Supreme and eternal God, that the word of God declares him to be?

We say, yes he is! That is why we must reject eternal generation in any way presented to us by men who profess to be wise.

 

[DavidTree]

heh

Post 750 has been UP-edited for you Brother

 

[civic]

@civic

civic, if Jesus is literally God's eternal son, then I ask you this question: "Are we his eternal children" ~ for you cannot separate Jesus Christ from the members of his elect body which all of the very elect are.

Brother, you need to rethink you position.

When stripped of all artificial verbiage, the naked question returns: Is Jesus Christ absolutely, eternally independently, underived, the very Supreme and eternal God, that the word of God declares him to be?

We say, yes he is! That is why we must reject eternal generation in any way presented to us by men who profess to be wise.

He is not Gods eternal Son, He is the Eternal Son just like the Father is the Eternal Father

 

[civic]

YES and NO

YES = JESUS is the firstborn man resurrected unto Eternal Glorification over all of Creation.

NO = JESUS is NOT the firstborn among mankind = Adam was the firstborn of mankind

Adam wasn’t born he was created from the dust

 

[DavidTree]

Adam wasn’t born he was created from the dust

Adam was created from the earth and was born when God breathed into him = Firstborn of mankind

 

[Runningman]

JESUS is YHWH

Not according to the Bible.

 

[DavidTree]

Not according to the Bible.

YES = according to Scripture

Here it is = Psalm 27:1

The LORD is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The LORD is the strength of my life; Of whom shall I be afraid?

 

[Runningman]

YES = according to Scripture

Here it is = Psalm 27:1

The LORD is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The LORD is the strength of my life; Of whom shall I be afraid?

Psalm 2:7 and Psalm 110:1 demonstrate clear distinction between Jesus and YHWH in prophecy. For example, YHWH became Jesus' Father. Jesus came to YHWH's right hand and sat down, etc.

 

[DavidTree]

Psalm 2:7 and Psalm 110:1 demonstrate clear distinction between Jesus and YHWH in prophecy. For example, YHWH became Jesus' Father. Jesus came to YHWH's right hand and sat down, etc.

They show the CLEAR distinction between YHWH as Spirit and when YHWH comes to earth as a man.

Thus Elohim FATHER remains Spirit but Elohim WORD becomes the "only begotten of the FATHER"

This is Verified in the Gospel and the Apostles writings

God is Light and in Him there is no darkness
JESUS is Light and in Him is no darkness = Like Father like Son = Equal in TRUTH, HOLINESS and ORIGIN/SPIRIT

JESUS is the True LIGHT that all men must come to for Salvation = John 3:16-21
JESUS is the only Person of the godhead called LORD in NT Scripture
JESUS is EXACTLY the Person spoken of by David in Psalm 27:1 = "The LORD is my light and my salvation"

 

[Red Baker]

@Runningman

1 Timothy 6:14-16 doesn't say Jesus is the "King of kings and Lord of lords" but rather Jesus would show who that is. It's referring to Jesus revealing who God is. Jesus is never called the "King of kings and Lord of lords" anywhere in the Bible.

Oh, how you men wrest the word of God! Is this the best you have to offer? Of course it is, folks like you are void of the Spirit of God and have no love for the truth.

God is a Spirit that inhabiteth eternity, always has, always will, and that can never change, no never. Jesus Christ His Son is the express image of God, the ONLY God angels and man will ever see, or can see.

Isaiah 57:15​

“For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.”

One more time:

1 Timothy 6:14​

“That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:”

I can stop here and prove that these scriptures are speaking of JESUS CHRIST~do you see this? THE APPEARING of Jesus Christ, how plain is this, it can not be spoken any plainer!

1 Timothy 6:15​

“Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;”

Who's times? Jesus Christ!

Titus 2:13​

“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;”

Jesus Christ is the ONLY God we shall ever see, and bow down to! You need to repent of your rejecting of Jesus Christ being the GREAT GOD, and the only Saviour of sinners. You will soon meet him face to face, and give an account of rejecting him as the Great and True God!