The Eternal Son

You are my Son; this day I have begotten you" (Heb. 1:5)

You can read this as, "You are always my Son," or "You are now my Son."

The Son was begotten three times—in eternity past, in the incarnation, and in the resurrection.

God seems to have a thing with the number three.
 
Dizerner said:
You are my Son; this day I have begotten you" (Heb. 1:5)

You can read this as, "You are always my Son," or "You are now my Son."

The Son was begotten three times—in eternity past, in the incarnation, and in the resurrection.

God seems to have a thing with the number three.
Click to expand...
"You are (now) my Son" = Prophecy

Evidence = "this day I have begotten You"

'this day' AND 'begotten You' declares = Not from Eternity
 
John 5:37 (NKJV) “And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

John 6:43-45 (NKJV) 43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Is it here?
Ephesians 1:13 (NKJV) In Him you also [trusted,] after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
 
DavidTree said:
Not from Eternity
Click to expand...

Notice in Hebrews 1 Christ is addressed specifically as the "Son," and then also as the Creator at the beginning of all things.

There is no change of referent between these two things, as if he did not used to be the Son at all.

I agree that God the Son had an actual ontological change in the Incarnation, and became something he was not previously.

However, I think it's a mistake to think only Jesus' human nature was a "Son."

Also a mistake to think as civic seems to, that only the human nature was granted to be a source of life.

Jesus is talking as a Person not as a nature.

For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, (Jn. 5:26 NKJ)
 
Selah said:
John 5:37 (NKJV) “And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

John 6:43-45 (NKJV) 43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Is it here?
Ephesians 1:13 (NKJV) In Him you also [trusted,] after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Click to expand...
John 5:37 JESUS says no one has heard the Father's Voice at any time
PARADOX = John 6:45 "everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to ME"

There is one more direct paradox to this in Chapter 1 of a certain NT Letter
 
Dizerner said:
Notice in Hebrews 1 Christ is addressed specifically as the "Son," and then also as the Creator at the beginning of all things.

There is no change of referent between these two things, as if he did not used to be the Son at all.

I agree that God the Son had an actual ontological change in the Incarnation, and became something he was not previously.

However, I think it's a mistake to think only Jesus' human nature was a "Son."

Also a mistake to think as civic seems to, that only the human nature was granted to be a source of life.

Jesus is talking as a Person not as a nature.

For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, (Jn. 5:26 NKJ)
Click to expand...
There is no change of the Divinity of the WORD that was God to Jesus Christ

Evidence: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

However, I think it's a mistake to think only Jesus' human nature was a "Son."
Click to expand...
ONLY if there is a OT Scripture Proclaiming the WORD as the Son BEFORE the Incarnation

The Word is the Person who became Flesh = JESUS the CHRIST
 
civic said:
That’s the humanity side

On the Divine side He is the very source of life. John 1:4
Click to expand...

Jesus is talking as a Person not as a nature.

That's why he can say, "Before Abraham, I am," and "the glory I shared with the Father before the world was."

Did Jesus' human nature exist before Abraham?

Did the "humanity side" of Jesus share glory with the Father before the world was?

Obviously not.
 
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. (Col. 1:15-18 NKJ)

I made a mistake in the other thread equating these two firstborns as identical.

But I realized on reflection, they speak of two different begettings, and witness to Christ's Eternal Sonship.

The first firstborn here has to do with all of creation and not just the redemption of fallen creation.
 
Dizerner said:
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. (Col. 1:15-18 NKJ)

I made a mistake in the other thread equating these two firstborns as identical.

But I realized on reflection, they speak of two different begettings, and witness to Christ's Eternal Sonship.

The first firstborn here has to do with all of creation and not just the redemption of fallen creation.
Click to expand...

You were correct the first time = JESUS is the SAME "firstborn over all creation" = "firstborn from the dead"
 
Last edited:
DavidTree said:
John 5:37 JESUS says no one has heard the Father's Voice at any time
PARADOX = John 6:45 "everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to ME"

There is one more direct paradox to this in Chapter 1 of a certain NT Letter
Click to expand...
Ephesians 1:7-9 (NKJV) 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
 

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