I am not saying it; Catholic doctrine teaches Christ is present in every offering everywhere and forever the Eucharist is offered.
The context of the Eucharist from Passover Seder : sacrifice, real presence, priest, unblemished lamb
- Thread starter mikepec
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GodsGrace
Active Member
I know what Catholic doctrine teaches.
I'm trying to find our what YOU think it teaches.
A simple yes or no will suffice.
Do YOU believe Jesus is recrucified at every Mass?
No, because I do not believe in the Catholic doctrine.
That should have been plain .
GodsGrace
Active Member
You may think what you like but your question was
Do YOU believe Jesus is recrucified at every Mass?
and my answer is no.
GodsGrace
Active Member
I apologize Tom
Let me ask this way:
Do you believe that in Catholic teaching, Jesus is being recrucified at every mass?
Sorry 'bout that.
GodsGrace
Active Member
Well, then Tom, you're answer would be correct.
Jesus is NOT recrucified at every Mass.
Except I don't THINK it's what you meant.
Not to belabor the point, but I DO believe you misunderstood the question...
which was probably how I worded it.
Now if you were to ask me if Catholic doctrine holds that the Eucharist is a pre-presentation of that sacrifice and that they hold it to be a bloodless sacrifice and that Christ is called down from heaven to be present in the elements over and over then I would say yes
GodsGrace
Active Member
OK Tom.
I'll end with this:
MANY Protestants believe that Jesus is recrucified at every Mass. (which is not true).
This is different than re-offering the sacrifice at every Mass.
Along with this...the laity's sacrifices are added,
as Paul states in
Colossians 1:24
24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions.
I just believe it's important to understand that Catholics are not devoid of wisdom and do not recrucify Jesus at every Mass.
Thanks for your reply.
Behold
Active Member
Jesus has finished the "Blood" covenant between Himself and God., and now he's about to die.
Jesus said the kingdom had come............ well before He was crucified.
Luke 17......Jesus says its "here".
And He should know, as He is the KOG, with His Father.
This is why when you are born again, you are now "seated in Heavenly Places"......"in Christ" as "one with God"...so, that is to have entered the KOG, spiritually.
The Eucharist is a cookie, that is a symbol, that is nothing more, and nothing less.
Its a representation, a FIGURE...........similar to water baptism.
There are CULT that elevates the "cookie" as their "Jesus" and water baptism as their salvation... but God does not.
Is this still going . Wow!
I recognise that man made tradition of the reformers invented out of thin air a symbolic only eucharist cherrypicking a single verse in defiance of all contradicting verses and all church history!
But The reformers and their supporters don’t seem to recognise that none of you agree with each other on most aspects of doctrine which is what happens when you all redefine Christianity in your own image.
Let that generality pass and focus on eucharist.
But it was certainly not what ApostleJohn taught, or his disciples believed , or all the true church taught for the first 1500 years. The symbolic Eucharist was pulled out of thin air, in violation of scripture, a tradition and all authority.
So why do you redefine history , scripture and church teaching?
If you want to know what the Eucharist actualky was as taught by apostles read their disciples writings , try ignatius - who with polycarp were disciples of the apostle John who knew what he meant by John 6. Read what he said in ignatius to smyrneans . it wasn’t symbolic.
Indeed the word eat my body used means gnaw ( as meat) not consume ( as word)
It needed a bishop to preside to be valid and was the real presence of Jesus. How can a symbol be valid, or profaning a mere symbol lead to death?
That is real Christianity , not the reformer cult symbolic Eucharist.
The real Christian Eucharist is why the romans thought Christian’s were cannibals!
To believe in symbolic Eucharist, you have to ignore all the Bible says of Eucharist and Passover, and all the church. handed down ever since. All the writings of church fathers ,
You cherrypick and misinterpret just one single verse out of context.
Nothing else fits,
But such is the arrogance of the reformer cults, who can’t even agree with each other.
Doesn’t it bother you that calvin, Zwingli and Luther all had poles apart views on Eucharist?
Or that for 1500 years all believed in the real body eucharist , and most of us ever since?
It must be lonely in that tiny minority of yours that ignores all that was ever written, so believing in your own myth!
In the forensicslly analyzed eucharistic miracles where bread became living cardiac tissue on multiple continents , Jesus drew back the veil to show it really is him. If you don’t believe church teaching, do you not accept science either? Is it only your opinion that counts in defiance of evidence and all else?
Wow…that truly is a lonely place.
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Doug Brents
Active Member
The Lord's Supper (eucharist, as you call it), is the perfection of the Passover. The Passover did not need a bishop to preside over it to make it real/valid, and neither does the Lord's Supper. Each head of household was responsible for his own house, and did not need a priest to preside over his house's Passover meal, nor did he need a bishop, overseer, or any other authority. Every Christ follower is a priest to God under the NT; there is not a separate "priest" class with greater authority over the Church. The greatest authority given in the NT is that of the Elders/Pastors/Shepherds/Bishops (all mean the same thing) over each congregation, and they were required to be men, with a wife (but only one), and children (who were old enough to be believers in Jesus). The catholic "priesthood" does not qualify under these requirements.
The Passover was a symbolic reminder of the blood spread on the door posts when the Destroyer came in Egypt, so the Lord's Supper is also symbolic. The Passover pointed to what Jesus would do for all mankind. The bread and wine do not physically change to become flesh and blood. They are His flesh and blood in a spiritual sense.
dwight92070
Active Member
mikepec said: "
Jesus said “ this IS my body “ not “ represents”
He said this “ this is my blood”not represents"
Obviously, you don't know how to interpret the Scripture.
Jesus said, "John himself IS Elijah who was to come." John 11:14
So is Jesus saying that John the Baptist IS literally Elijah?
Of course not, John came in the spirit and the power of Elijah, but he was NOT Elijah. Luke 1:17
Matthew 26:27-28 "Drink from it, all of you; for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day ..."
Jesus is clearly saying that the cup that they had just drunk was the fruit of the vine, not literally His blood.
Jesus said “ this IS my body “ not “ represents”
He said this “ this is my blood”not represents"
Obviously, you don't know how to interpret the Scripture.
Jesus said, "John himself IS Elijah who was to come." John 11:14
So is Jesus saying that John the Baptist IS literally Elijah?
Of course not, John came in the spirit and the power of Elijah, but he was NOT Elijah. Luke 1:17
Matthew 26:27-28 "Drink from it, all of you; for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day ..."
Jesus is clearly saying that the cup that they had just drunk was the fruit of the vine, not literally His blood.
dwight92070
Active Member
Jesus often spoke using non-literal language, which is exactly what He was doing in Matthew 26:27-28. His blood was shed and His body was crucified ONCE FOR ALL - Hebrews 7:27 and Heb. 10:10 There's no need for His blood and His body to miraculously reappear every time we take communion. The idea that this happens is totally man-made by people who love to make up religious ceremonies, many of whom don't even love God themselves. That way they can perform the ceremony and pretend certain miracles happen during that ceremony - so they can pretend that God GIVES THEM "A STAMP OF APPROVAL", when actually the ONLY THING that pleases God is FAITH - NEVER a man-made ceremony or a "religious symbol", such as rosary beads, or burning incense, or statues of Mary and the baby Jesus, or statues of the apostles, or making the sign of the cross over your chest.
How do I know that this is true? Because I have witnessed first hand Catholics who live like the devil during the week - one man who would visit prostitutes during the week and a woman who, along with her husband were members of a nudist club, but on Sunday, they were kneeling at the bench, taking communion, saying the "Our Father" or the "Hail Mary", going to confession, etc. - but then they went right back to their immorality during the week.
Of course there are Protestant hypocrites too, but I doubt if any of them have as many man-made religious ceremonies, trinkets, idols, and ideas - to "fall back on" to ease their conscience.
We also know that Jesus was using non-literal language in John 6:54. where He said: "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise Him up on the last day."
He told us that those words were referring to spiritual truths, not physical flesh and blood. John 6:63 " ... the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life."
How do I know that this is true? Because I have witnessed first hand Catholics who live like the devil during the week - one man who would visit prostitutes during the week and a woman who, along with her husband were members of a nudist club, but on Sunday, they were kneeling at the bench, taking communion, saying the "Our Father" or the "Hail Mary", going to confession, etc. - but then they went right back to their immorality during the week.
Of course there are Protestant hypocrites too, but I doubt if any of them have as many man-made religious ceremonies, trinkets, idols, and ideas - to "fall back on" to ease their conscience.
We also know that Jesus was using non-literal language in John 6:54. where He said: "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise Him up on the last day."
He told us that those words were referring to spiritual truths, not physical flesh and blood. John 6:63 " ... the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life."
Ignatius - disciple of John the apostle - long before the New Testament , when the faith was handed down and taught by those appointed , and less than a century after Christ wrote to Smyrneans a letter which is clearly what they believed at the time handed to them by John who knew what Christ meant !
1/ you need a bishop for a valid Eucharist
For
2/ Eucharist of the real flesh.
3/ those who don’t believe it are heretics
You do not get to reinterpret scripture. It means what John says it means and handed that meaning down ( aka traditon)
If you want to know what the doctrine was handed down , study early church.
1/ you need a bishop for a valid Eucharist
For
2/ Eucharist of the real flesh.
3/ those who don’t believe it are heretics
You do not get to reinterpret scripture. It means what John says it means and handed that meaning down ( aka traditon)
If you want to know what the doctrine was handed down , study early church.
