He was speaking to his master worker( Prov 8:30) the one who was beside God during creation. The one whom God created things-THROUGH. Because notice in the next verse- God proceeded to make the man in his( not ours) image.
The butchering of John 1:1 by JW anti-Trinitarian Translators
- Thread starter synergy
- Start date
One Lord = YHWH echad
Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: (YHWH echad)
which became(
Mark 12:29 (KJV 1900) — 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: (heis Kyrios)
1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord (heis Kyrios) Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Johann
Well-known member
Yes, the name YHWH (יהוה) was indeed written in the ancient original texts of the Hebrew Scriptures. The Tetragrammaton appears in the earliest manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible, known as the Masoretic Text, which was compiled and standardized around the 9th to 10th centuries CE but is based on earlier texts.
Evidence of YHWH in Ancient Texts:
Dead Sea Scrolls: The Dead Sea Scrolls, which date back to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, contain numerous references to YHWH in biblical texts, providing significant evidence of its use in ancient Israelite worship and scripture.
Paleo-Hebrew Script: In the earliest Hebrew inscriptions, including the Paleo-Hebrew script, the name YHWH appears. This form of writing was used in the ancient Israelite kingdoms before the Babylonian exile.
Septuagint: The Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, known as the Septuagint (translated in the 3rd and 2nd centuries BCE), often rendered YHWH as "Kyrios" (Lord) in Greek, indicating its original presence in the Hebrew texts.
Archaeological Inscriptions: Various archaeological discoveries, such as the Mesha Stele from the 9th century BCE and the inscriptions from Kuntillet Ajrud, also reference YHWH, confirming its use in ancient Israel.
J.
You provide no evidence for your claim and no context for exegesis
He is preeminent because
Colossians 1:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
BTW firstborn is not first created
Jesus was created direct-first and last= the firstborn of all creation= 100% fact. All other things created through him.
Johann
Well-known member
Yes, the name YHWH (יהוה) was indeed written in the ancient original texts of the Hebrew Scriptures. The Tetragrammaton appears in the earliest manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible, known as the Masoretic Text, which was compiled and standardized around the 9th to 10th centuries CE but is based on earlier texts.
Evidence of YHWH in Ancient Texts:
Dead Sea Scrolls: The Dead Sea Scrolls, which date back to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, contain numerous references to YHWH in biblical texts, providing significant evidence of its use in ancient Israelite worship and scripture.
Paleo-Hebrew Script: In the earliest Hebrew inscriptions, including the Paleo-Hebrew script, the name YHWH appears. This form of writing was used in the ancient Israelite kingdoms before the Babylonian exile.
Septuagint: The Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, known as the Septuagint (translated in the 3rd and 2nd centuries BCE), often rendered YHWH as "Kyrios" (Lord) in Greek, indicating its original presence in the Hebrew texts.
Archaeological Inscriptions: Various archaeological discoveries, such as the Mesha Stele from the 9th century BCE and the inscriptions from Kuntillet Ajrud, also reference YHWH, confirming its use in ancient Israel.
J.
If he is not god then Jehovah is not Lord as per your methodology
which is absurd
For a Christian, Lord and God are convertible claims
BTW you contradict your own theology which states he is a god
as well as your own scriptures
(NWT)Joh 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.
(NWT)Joh 20:28 In answer Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!"
Firstborn is not firstcreated
He is pre-eminent because
Colossians 1:16 (LEB) — 16 because all things in the heavens and on the earth were created by him, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers, all things were created through him and for him,
All things were created through him, so he could not be a creation
MTMattie
Active member
You know that and I know that but THEY" do not.
MTMattie
Active member
Hope the master worker was not a Mason....
Yeppers... God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
God with, God the word and God the Spirit 3 in one.
Johann
Well-known member
And will not admit it
MTMattie
Active member
See John 1:18 Jesus=god not God------ god= has godlike qualities.
THROUGH HIM= another did it.
God or god is a translators choice
John 1:18 (LEB) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known.
But you did not deal with the fact your claim is a denial of your own scripture
MTMattie
Active member
John 1:18 not even close to your definition Nas95
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
The only begotten God......................
Even the detestable NIV for all its errors states
John 1:18
New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known..
Aramaic:
No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”
Not yours... You want more?
Try Contemporary English Version
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.
Please... pay attention.....
The JW New World Translation says
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.
Johann
Well-known member
Incorrect
No man hath seen God at any time (theon oudeis heōraken pōpote). “God no one has ever seen.” Perfect active indicative of horaō. Seen with the human physical eye, John means. God is invisible (Exo_33:20; Deu_4:12). Paul calls God aoratos (Col_1:15; 1Ti_1:17). John repeats the idea in Joh_5:37; Joh_6:46. And yet in Joh_14:7 Jesus claims that the one who sees him has seen the Father as here.
The only begotten Son (ho monogenēs huios). This is the reading of the Textus Receptus and is intelligible after hōs monogenous para patros in Joh_1:14. But the best old Greek manuscripts (Aleph B C L) read monogenēs theos (God only begotten) which is undoubtedly the true text.
Probably some scribe changed it to ho monogenēs huios to obviate the blunt statement of the deity of Christ and to make it like Joh_3:16.
But there is an inner harmony in the reading of the old uncials. The Logos is plainly called theos in Joh_1:1. The Incarnation is stated in Joh_1:14, where he is also termed monogenēs. He was that before the Incarnation.
So he is “God only begotten,” “the Eternal Generation of the Son” of Origen’s phrase.
Which is in the bosom of the Father (ho ōn eis ton kolpon tou patros).
The eternal relation of the Son with the Father like pros ton theon in Joh_1:1. In Joh_3:13 there is some evidence for ho ōn en tōi ouranōi used by Christ of himself while still on earth. The mystic sense here is that the Son is qualified to reveal the Father as Logos (both the
Father in Idea and Expression) by reason of the continual fellowship with the Father.
He (ekinos). Emphatic pronoun referring to the Son.
Hath declared him (exēgēsato). First aorist (effective) middle indicative of exēgeomai, old verb to lead out, to draw out in narrative, to recount. Here only in John, though once in Luke’s Gospel (Luk_24:35) and four times in Acts (Act_10:8; Act_15:12, Act_15:14; Act_21:19). This word fitly closes the Prologue in which the Logos is pictured in marvellous fashion as the Word of God in human flesh, the Son of God with the Glory of God in him, showing men who God is and what he is.
Robertson
No man hath seen God at any time (Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε)
God is first in the Greek order, as emphatic: “God hath no man ever seen.” As to the substance of the statement, compare Joh_3:11; Exo_33:20; 1Jn_4:12. Manifestations of God to Old Testament saints were only partial and approximate (Exo_33:23). The seeing intended here is seeing of the divine essence rather than of the divine person, which also is indicated by the absence of the article from Θεὸν, God. In this sense even Christ was not seen as God. The verb ὁράω, to see, denotes a physical act, but emphasizes the mental discernment accompanying it, and points to the result rather than to the act of vision. In 1Jn_1:1; 1Jn_4:12, 1Jn_4:14, θεάομαι is used, denoting calm and deliberate contemplation (see on Joh_1:14). In Joh_12:45, we have θεωρέω, to behold (see on Mar_5:15; see on Luk_10:18). Both θεάομαι and θεωρέω imply deliberate contemplation, but the former is gazing with a view to satisfy the eye, while the latter is beholding more critically, with an inward spiritual or mental interest in the thing beheld, and with a view to acquire knowledge about it. “Θεωρεῖν would be used of a general officially reviewing or inspecting an army; θεᾶσθαι of a lay spectator looking at the parade” (Thayer).
The only begotten son (ὁ μονογενὴς υἱὸς)
Several of the principal manuscripts and a great mass of ancient evidence support the reading μονογενὴς Θεὸς, “God only begotten.”
Another and minor difference in reading relates to the article, which is omitted from μονογενὴς by most of the authorities which favor Θεὸς. Whether we read the only begotten Son, or God only begotten, the sense of the passage is not affected. The latter reading merely combines in one phrase the two attributes of the word already indicated - God (Joh_1:1), only begotten (Joh_1:14); the sense being one who was both God and only begotten.
Who is in the bosom (ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον)
The expression ὁ ὢν, who is, or the one being, is explained in two ways: 1. As a timeless present, expressing the inherent and eternal relation of the Son to the Father. 2. As interpreted by the preposition. εἰς, in, literally, into, and expressing the fact of Christ's return to the Father's glory after His incarnation: “The Son who has entered into the Father's bosom and is there.” In the former case it is an absolute description of the nature of the Son: in the latter, the emphasis is on the historic fact of the ascension, though with a reference to his eternal abiding with the Father from thenceforth.
While the fact of Christ's return to the Father's glory may have been present to the writer's mind, and have helped to determine the form of the statement, to emphasize that fact in this connection would seem less consistent with the course of thought in the Prologue than the other interpretation: since John is declaring in this sentence the competency of the incarnate Son to manifest God to mankind. The ascension of Christ is indeed bound up with that truth, but is not, in the light of the previous course of thought, its primary factor. That is rather the eternal oneness of the Word with God; which, though passing through the phase of incarnation, nevertheless remains unbroken (Joh_3:13). Thus Godet, aptly: “The quality attributed to Jesus, of being the perfect revealer of the divine Being, is founded on His intimate and perfect relation to God Himself.”
The phrase, in the bosom of the Father, depicts this eternal relation as essentially a relation of love; the figure being used of the relation of husband and wife (Deu_13:6); of a father to an infant child (Num_11:12), and of the affectionate protection and rest afforded to Lazarus in Paradise (Luk_16:23). The force of the preposition εἰς, into, according to the first interpretation of who is, is akin to that of “with God” (see on Joh_1:1); denoting an ever active relation, an eternal going forth and returning to the Father's bosom by the Son in His eternal work of love. He ever goes forth from that element of grace and love and returns to it. That element is His life. He is there “because He plunges into it by His unceasing action” (Godet).
He (ἐκεῖνος)
Strongly emphatic, and pointing to the eternal Son. This pronoun is used by John more frequently than by any other writer. It occurs seventy-two times, and not only as denoting the more distant subject, but as denoting and laying special stress on the person or thing immediately at hand, or possessing pre-eminently the quality which is immediately in question. Thus Jesus applies it to Himself as the person for whom the healed blind man is inquiring: “It is He (ἐκεῖνος) that talketh with thee” (Joh_9:37). So here, “the only-begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father - He hath declared Him.”
Hath declared (ἐξηγήσατο)
Or, rendering the aorist strictly, He declared. From ἐκ, forth, and ἡγέομαι, to lead the way. Originally, to lead or govern. Hence, like the Latin praeire verbis, to go before with words, to prescribe or dictate a form of words. To draw out in narrative, to recount or rehearse (see Act_15:14, and on Luk_24:35). To relate in full; to interpret, or translate. Therefore ἐξήγησις, exegesis, is interpretation or explanation. The word ἐξηγητής was used by the Greeks of an expounder of oracles, dreams, omens, or sacred rites. Thus Croesus, finding the suburbs of Sardis alive with serpents, sent to the soothsayers (ἐξηγητὰς) of Telmessus (Herodotus, i. 78). The word thus comes to mean a spiritual director. Plato calls Apollo the tutelary director (πατρῷος ἐξηγητής) of religion (“Republic,” 427), and says, “Let the priests be interpreters for life” (“Laws,” 759). In the Septuagint the word is used of the magicians of Pharaoh's court (Gen_41:8, Gen_41:24), and the kindred verb of teaching or interpreting concerning leprosy (Lev_14:57). John's meaning is that the Word revealed or manifested and interpreted the Father to men. The word occurs only here in John's writings. Wyc. renders, He hath told out. These words conclude the Prologue.
The Historical Narrative now begins, and falls into two general divisions:
I. The Self-Revelation of Christ to the World (1:19-12:50)
II. The Self-Revelation of Christ to the Disciples (13:1-21:23)
Vincent
Why are you running from John 1.1-to 1.18?
Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him [*Here the direct object is supplied from context in the English translation] known.
Joh 1:18 No one οὐδεὶς has ever seen ἑώρακεν . . . πώποτε· God, Θεὸν [but the] one and only Son, μονογενὴς [who is Himself] God Θεὸς [and] ὁ is ὢν at εἰς the τὸν vvv τοῦ Father’s Πατρὸς, side, κόλπον - ἐκεῖνος has made [Him] known. ἐξηγήσατο.
J.