The Biblical Doctrine of Love

[jeremiah1five]

Your beliefs contradict Scripture: God can raise children of Abraham out of stones.

As a matter of ability, He can. As a matter of necessity, He won't. He already has children of Abraham born from Abraham, so it is not necessary to create new children from stones.

If people want to be children of Abraham, they must DO what Abraham did. Lineage is given not by DNA, but by righteousness.

When God decreed the covenant would be with Abraham's seed, then DNA had everything to do with it. And it his seed by which virtues of righteousness and obedience are mentioned and sanctioned.

But He had a lot to say about salvation.
And in talking about salvation, He emphasized repantence and love.

Repentance and love originate with God, not man. It is through salvation that repentance and love are realized.

He minimized the importance of genetic lineage.

Then He would not have ordained His salvation be only with the Hebrew people.

He praised the faith of a Roman Centurion who was not a child of Israel.

The centurion was of mixed Hebrew heritage.

He said that Nineveh people had repented.

But their repentance had nothing to do with salvation but of a "changed mind." Neither were the Assyrians in covenant with God but His enemy and Israel's enemy.

God has promised Messiahs to other peoples as well, BEFORE messianism appeared in Judaism.
God promised the Saoshyan through Zoroaster and the Maitreya through Buddha.
Hindis expect the coming of the Tenth Buddha.

False religions.

Later on, and without any cultural connection to Judaism, in Mexico God promised the return of Quetzalcoatl, the Winged Serpent, from the east. The wings are symbol of wind, spirit, and the role of messenger. The serpent is a symbol of Wisdom and Salvation.

False religions.

Scripture declares that God

• loves the world,
• makes rain pour on good and bad person
• has righteous people in all nations that he accepts
• sent his Jesus to "atone" for the sins of all people: He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2.2)

Jesus was given as Promised to the Hebrew people. He was Jewish and His people of twelve tribes were Jewish. The angel told Mary her child would save "His people" (Matt. 1:21) meaning the Hebrew people.

My friend: I don't believe in the Trinity. Why, then, do you accuse me constantly of being griped by the false Constantinian Gentile theology?
Prophet Mohammed and Bahá'u'lláh are not the product of false Constantinian Gentile theology. Why, then, do you accuse me constantly of being griped by the false Constantinian Gentile theology?

Then call it false Zoroastrian theology.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I would not remain Italian... and that's exactly my point.
If a bird swims like duck, quaks like duck, and behaves as a duck it should be treated as a duck.
If a man thinks like a pagan, speaks as a pagan and behaves as a pagan, he is a pagan, no matter if he could track his lineage to Hebrews.

For Paul, people at the Areopagus were pagans and addressed them as pagans.
That's why I say that Paul didn't have any DNA test on hand.

They were of Hebrew-Gentile offspring. They were called "Gentile" because they grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture and lost their Hebrew heritage. Still, they were Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

 

[TibiasDad]

These "Gentiles" were mixed heritage Hebrews who were called "Gentile" because they are the offspring of Hebrew-Gentiles who remained in Gentile lands since the 722 BC Assyrian conquest and subsequent exile of the Jews when Nehemiah and his remnant returned to Israel to rebuild the wall in 522 BC. From this date approximately 15-20 generations of Hebrews remained in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture (Hellenized.) They lost their Hebrew religion and heritage and grew up uncircumcised and mostly ignorant of their Hebrew heritage. These mixed heritage Hebrews were called "Gentile" and not Jew by the overall population of Jews in the same prejudice as mixed heritage Hebrews were called "Samaritan" and not "Jew" by Jews of the first century. There was real disgust of Hebrews that were the offspring of the Assyrian conquest whether through rape, marriage to survive, concubinage and slavery.

It is not hard to reason out if you look at the narrative and history of the events of the Assyrian and Babylonian conquest of Israel and the events recorded in Scripture. There is a history of 90% of all Hebrews that remained in Gentile lands and did not return with a remnant (10%) and Nehemiah in 522 BC. This population cannot be dismissed. There is real history of the offspring of Hebrews that remained in Gentile lands for 15-20 generations until Christ arrived in the first century AD. One thing is that in the Hebrew Scripture which is the basis of how one interprets the New Testament and the statement by Jesus that "Scripture cannot be broken" meaning cannot change or be altered or added to after the fact. True Christianity interprets Scripture in this light and yet the majority of Gentile theology must add to the bible in order to remain significant as a religious group.

Many truths are violated by non-Hebrew Gentiles who have taken the New Covenant writings by Saul and interpreted them from the viewpoint of non-Hebrews mindset trying to understand a Hebrew history and culture and religion as a Gentile and not as a Hebrew. Several truths from the Hebrew Scriptures are overlooked and even outright contradicted in order to establish a Gentile "Christian Church" in the world by breaking Scripture in many places. One such break with truth of the Hebrew Scripture is that when the Abraham Covenant was made between God and Abram the Hebrew that there are no non-Hebrews named or mentioned as being in this covenant with the father of the Hebrew people. Genesis 12, 15, and 17 where the covenant promises are made with Abram there is no mention of non-Hebrew Gentiles being included in this covenant. As a matter of biblical history, no Gentiles are mentioned included in the Mosaic and New Covenants. Another break with Scripture is that the Holy Spirit was promised by God to the Hebrew people in Joel. Nowhere in the bible do we find any passage or verse stating God promised to pour out His Spirit to non-Hebrew Gentiles. And yet the interpretation of New Covenant writings all interprets God giving His Spirit to non-Hebrew Gentiles despite being unable to provide biblical and Scriptural support for such doctrine.

Cornelius was an Italian Roman! Not Assyrian or Babylonian or Greek; he was Italian/Roman. He was not Jewish!


Doug

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

They were of Hebrew-Gentile offspring. They were called "Gentile" because they grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture and lost their Hebrew heritage. Still, they were Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

I know this is your presupposition, but all evidence from the passage recorded by Lukes goes against it.
The people Paul was addressing thought as Gentiles, lived as Gentiles and were addressed as Gentiles.

You admit that they have lost their Hebrew heritage, but you care about their genes... even when God can raise children of Abraham from the stones.

A genetic-based decision on who to destroy is proper of Nazism, not of God.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Their repentance had nothing to do with eternal salvation nor was any covenant made for that purpose. It was basically God telling the Ninevites, "You're evil. I'm going to destroy you. Repent from your evil."
Jonah says they did.

Not only Jonah... Jesus himself said that people of Nineveh repented.
The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. (Matthew 12:41)
So, Scripture refutes your evil belief.

There was no talk of eternal salvation or having a covenant for that purpose like the Hebrews had in theirs.

God covenant with Israel is not about eternal salvation of individual souls. I'm surprised you don't know these things, if you base salvation on covenants with Israel.
Salvation, for Israel, is salvation from invaders, hunger, droughts, diseases, pestilence.
So, the story of God forgiving Niniveh is a story of salvation.

You can't equate "repentance" everywhere you may see the word with eternal salvation.

Of course I can.
The gospel is primary about repentance.
God does not save those who do not repent, but those who repent.

The word "repentance" merely means "changing ones' mind." God told the Ninevites to "change your mind" about the evil you do in my sight, or I will destroy you.

That's right. Salvation is based on changing one's mind. Leaving behind the mind of the flesh and embracing the mind of the spirit.
Another way to say "change one's mind" is "be born again".

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

As a matter of ability, He can. As a matter of necessity, He won't. He already has children of Abraham born from Abraham, so it is not necessary to create new children from stones.

When God decreed the covenant would be with Abraham's seed, then DNA had everything to do with it.

That view is not supported by evidence, as good and evil choices are observed in people of all genetic lineages.

The Scripture says:

"Weigh carefully in the balance of reason and science everything that is presented to you as religion.
If it passes this test, then accept it, for it is truth!
If, however, it does not so conform, then reject it, for it is ignorance!"
(Abdul Bahá)

and also

God has endowed man with intelligence and reason
whereby he is required to determine the verity of questions and propositions.
If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science
they are mere superstitions and imaginations;
for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition.
Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science.
If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible…
(Abdul Bahá)

And it his seed by which virtues of righteousness and obedience are mentioned and sanctioned.

There is no biblical support for this. In addition, such belief is evil.

Repentance and love originate with God, not man. It is through salvation that repentance and love are realized.
Then He would not have ordained His salvation be only with the Hebrew people.
The centurion was of mixed Hebrew heritage.

No. That's precisely why Jesus put him as example over Israel.
When Jesus heard it, He was amazed and said to those who followed, “Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say to you that many will come from the east and west and will dine with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

Not only that, but Jesus goes on: "And I say to you that many will come from the east and west and will dine with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven." If such people from east and west were already seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, they would be already dining at the same table with their seed.

But their repentance had nothing to do with salvation but of a "changed mind."

Salvation is all about "changed mind".

 

[jeremiah1five]

Then I respectfully ask you to reject Scripture as your DNA test.

I can't do that. God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and extended it to his seed. There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles named or mentioned or included in any of the three Hebrew covenants: Abrahamic, Mosaic, New.)

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen. 17:6–7.

This is what Moses wrote and the Hebrews maintained throughout the millenniums as their Holy Scripture given to them by God, the Creator of the universe and all things in it.

You can either accept this Word of reject it. There is no medium. If you posit there are non-Hebrew Gentiles in any of these three covenants or do not accept these covenants as true and "bible" then you are teaching and supporting another gospel, a gospel that is not good news, but evil news.

God reveals his truth through DNA and particle physics as much as He reveals his truth in the Book of Genesis or Revelation.
Paul could not possibly know who had Hebrew genetic lineage among his audience.

Just as we are called to "test the spirits" whether they are of God" is to determine who is true brethren and who is false. God holds us to who we call brethren because in order to be brethren one must have the same father. This is biologically true, and it is also spiritually true. There's a reason why Hebrews identify Abraham as their father.

In fact, it is very likely that the vast majority of people on earth have some % of their DNA originated in Jews, or in Semitic people who have been mixed with Jews.

If they are Abrahams seed then as Scripture states, they are heirs according to the promises - even if they are mixed heritage.

Any doctrine that makes salvation dependent of ethnicity is false and much closer to Nazism that to Judaism.
Why don't you ask Jew rabbis of your neighborhood if God loves the non-Hebrew? Don't you think that they have a say on this?

Then you are accusing God of Nazism for He is the One who made the covenant with Abraham and with his children, a people identified as the children of Israel.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen. 17:6–7.

Do I ask the Reformed? The Conservative? The Orthodox? The Biblical? Maybe the Ultra-Orthodox. I prefer to consult the Scripture. And with a healthy knowledge of Hebrew culture and nuances, etc., I am in a good position under the anointing to be revealed truth above and beyond the non-Hebrew Gentile and their false Constantinian - or Baha'i - doctrine and false indoctrination, which is

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Do I ask the Reformed? The Conservative? The Orthodox? The Biblical? Maybe the Ultra-Orthodox.

Ask any of them. All of them.
No scholar from the seed of Abraham has ever held that non Hebrews will be destroyed by God due to their genetic lineage
Will you ask yourself why?

I prefer to consult the Scripture. And with a healthy knowledge of Hebrew culture and nuances, etc., I am in a good position

No, you are not in a good position.
First, you criticized those who pretended to know the Hebrew scriptures and build their theology on that.
Now you claim to be in a good position about them.
Ask the Jews. Ultraorthodox, reformed, conservative, Messianic, etc

 

[jeremiah1five]

Cornelius was an Italian Roman! Not Assyrian or Babylonian or Greek; he was Italian/Roman. He was not Jewish!


Doug

Good Lord, man, lay off those Gentile theology books and stay with Scripture.

I'm not going to publish everything in Acts 10 from which one can come to the conclusion that Cornelius was not a non-Hebrew but was a Hebrew of mixed heritage (meaning there was a non-Hebrew somewhere in his family ancestry), but I am going to give you a passage that you can build upon to conclude Cornelius was a Samaritan-type mixed heritage Hebrew with non-Hebrew descendant in his family ancestry.)

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; Acts 10:34–37.

42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 10:42–48.

Now, to rightly interpret these verses you have to go into the Hebrew Scripture. You can't look at these main passages from a Constantinian Gentile mindset. You have to know Hebrew Scripture in order to understand what's going on here because it cannot be understood if Cornelius was a non-Hebrew Gentile. There is too much that points to the conclusion that Cornelius was of mixed heritage like a Samaritan was of mixed heritage.

Now, show me from these passages that Cornelius was of mixed heritage ancestry (Jew-Gentile offspring.)

Go ahead and make your case.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I know this is your presupposition, but all evidence from the passage recorded by Lukes goes against it.
The people Paul was addressing thought as Gentiles, lived as Gentiles and were addressed as Gentiles.

You admit that they have lost their Hebrew heritage, but you care about their genes... even when God can raise children of Abraham from the stones.

A genetic-based decision on who to destroy is proper of Nazism, not of God.

All this can be settled if you just provide the passages or verses from the Hebrew Scripture that God promised His Spirit to non-Hebrew Gentiles.

There are none.
The Spirit of God is promised to Israel and is a benefit of their covenant with God.
Non-Hebrews have no covenant with God. There's nothing in the chapters where Moses recorded the Abrahamic Covenant saying God included non-Hebrews.

God promised Abraham and his seed salvation. As long as they are seed of Abraham no matter the dilution of Abraham's DNA they are still Abraham's seed. The LORD knows them that are His. That's all that matters.
Overall, God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. None at all.
You're just wasting my time.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Not only Jonah... Jesus himself said that people of Nineveh repented.
The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. (Matthew 12:41)
So, Scripture refutes your evil belief.


God covenant with Israel is not about eternal salvation of individual souls. I'm surprised you don't know these things, if you base salvation on covenants with Israel.
Salvation, for Israel, is salvation from invaders, hunger, droughts, diseases, pestilence.
So, the story of God forgiving Niniveh is a story of salvation.


Of course I can.
The gospel is primary about repentance.
God does not save those who do not repent, but those who repent.



That's right. Salvation is based on changing one's mind. Leaving behind the mind of the flesh and embracing the mind of the spirit.
Another way to say "change one's mind" is "be born again".

Keep ypour false religion and go to hell, do not pass GO and do not collect $200.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That view is not supported by evidence, as good and evil choices are observed in people of all genetic lineages.

The Scripture says:

"Weigh carefully in the balance of reason and science everything that is presented to you as religion.
If it passes this test, then accept it, for it is truth!
If, however, it does not so conform, then reject it, for it is ignorance!"
(Abdul Bahá)

and also

God has endowed man with intelligence and reason
whereby he is required to determine the verity of questions and propositions.
If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science
they are mere superstitions and imaginations;
for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition.
Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science.
If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible…
(Abdul Bahá)


There is no biblical support for this. In addition, such belief is evil.


No. That's precisely why Jesus put him as example over Israel.
When Jesus heard it, He was amazed and said to those who followed, “Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say to you that many will come from the east and west and will dine with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

Not only that, but Jesus goes on: "And I say to you that many will come from the east and west and will dine with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven." If such people from east and west were already seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, they would be already dining at the same table with their seed.


Salvation is all about "changed mind".

I grow tired of this.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Ask any of them. All of them.
No scholar from the seed of Abraham has ever held that non Hebrews will be destroyed by God due to their genetic lineage
Will you ask yourself why?


No, you are not in a good position.
First, you criticized those who pretended to know the Hebrew scriptures and build their theology on that.
Now you claim to be in a good position about them.
Ask the Jews. Ultraorthodox, reformed, conservative, Messianic, etc

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

View attachment 998
Keep ypour false religion and go to hell, do not pass GO and do not collect $200.

Dear readers

If our religion help us to bless other members of the human family at the workplace, at the classroom, within our families and in this Forum, that religion is good. If our religion does not allow us to bless others, but triggers a desire to "send them to hell", having no religion at all would be much better.

In regard to our brother @jeremiah1five, I have firmly rejected and denounced the evil ideas he is trapped in, and presented the biblical evidence against his propositions. I have no doubt, though, he will embrace humanity and enjoy paradise. God chose him from the foundation of the world to become a citizen of the Kingdom, and nothing will frustrate God's loving purpose for him.

"Religion should unite all hearts and cause wars and disputes to vanish from the face of the earth; ​

it should give birth to spirituality and bring light and life to every soul. ​

If religion becomes a cause of dislike, hatred and division, it would be better to be without it"​

​

(Abdu'l Bahá)​

​

​

 

[jeremiah1five]

Dear readers

If our religion help us to bless other members of the human family at the workplace, at the classroom, within our families and in this Forum, that religion is good. If our religion does not allow us to bless others, but triggers a desire to "send them to hell", having no religion at all would be much better.

Now that's an unrealistic thing to say especially since hell is real and I don't sugar coat it with all that diplomatic niceties and sweet-nothing doings that all these sunshine religions have. I keep it real and when one is just wasting my time, I know they're really wasting God's time. You're not asking questions you're sharing your false religion here and I think you should go find someone who gives a crap to give you time of day.

In regard to our brother @jeremiah1five, I have firmly rejected and denounced the evil ideas he is trapped in, and presented the biblical evidence against his propositions. I have no doubt, though, he will embrace humanity and enjoy paradise. God chose him from the foundation of the world to become a citizen of the Kingdom, and nothing will frustrate God's loving purpose for him.

"Religion should unite all hearts and cause wars and disputes to vanish from the face of the earth; ​

it should give birth to spirituality and bring light and life to every soul. ​

If religion becomes a cause of dislike, hatred and division, it would be better to be without it"​

​

​

Evil ideas? Well, I got them from Scripture which means I got them from God which means you believe God is evil.
I laugh in your face.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Evil ideas? Well, I got them from Scripture which means I got them from God which means you believe God is evil.
I laugh in your face.

You have turned a text (or a specific interpretation of a text) into your god, your golden calf, and your source of notions of good and evil.
I'm telling you that it is much safer to trust your grandma. Otherwise you may end up stoning gay people to death.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You have turned a text (or a specific interpretation of a text) into your god, your golden calf, and your source of notions of good and evil.
I'm telling you that it is much safer to trust your grandma. Otherwise you may end up stoning gay people to death.

Jesus taught feed the sheep, rebuke the swine, and shoot the wolves.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Jesus taught feed the sheep, rebuke the swine, and shoot the wolves.

View attachment 1008

Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruit. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? (Mat 7:15,16)

If the fruit of a given teacher or prophet is hate and indifference to the Congolese or Chinese, we can be sure that such teacher is not a sheep. It doesn't matter how many verses such teacher has memorized.

So, abandon those teachers, my brother!
Get rid of them!
Embrace the truth that sets you free!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruit. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? (Mat 7:15,16)

If the fruit of a given teacher or prophet is hate and indifference to the Congolese or Chinese, we can be sure that such teacher is not a sheep. It doesn't matter how many verses such teacher has memorized.

So, abandon those teachers, my brother!
Get rid of them!
Embrace the truth that sets you free!

Sure, hate against non-Hebrews according to you is not of God.

Tell that to David.

45 Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.
46 This day will the LORD deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.
47 And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD’s, and he will give you into our hands. 1 Sa 17:45–47.

David had zeal for the Lord and hated anyone of these non-Hebrew, uncircumcised Philistines who thought they could mock the God of Israel and not be challenged. Or killed. And God sanctioned their killing. If God can send Joshua into Canaan with the instruction to wipe out every man, woman, child, toddler, infant, suckling, and babe in the womb with extreme prejudice, He can do it again to an army of adult Gentile scum.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Sure, hate against non-Hebrews according to you is not of God.

Tell that to David.

Tell that to your mom first.
Then go ahead and read about David's military campaigns against the Philistines.

Mom's lessons of good and evil come first.
Scripture comes second.

If you don't do it in that order, you end up making a mess of both mom's lessons and Scripture... as you have been doing.