That they should believe a lie !

[brightfame52]

Im sure we are familiar with this scripture 2 Thess 2:11-12

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Now it cant be denied in Vs 11 who it is that sends some people a strong delusion to believe a lie, and consequently be damned.

My question is, are these whom God does this to, also part of the all God desires to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth as stated here 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

[TedT]

My question is, are these whom God does this to, also part of the all God desires to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth as stated here 1 Tim 2:4

They were at one time but after they made their final free will decision to put their faith, their proven hope, in repudiating the gospel as lies, making HIM to be a liar and therefore a false god, HE brought them the delusions they now exist within.

 

[brightfame52]

They were at one time but after they made their final free will decision to put their faith, their proven hope, in repudiating the gospel as lies, making HIM to be a liar and therefore a false god, HE brought them the delusions they now exist within.

So God desired them to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth, then at some point changed His desire and sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie.

If He desired for them to believe the truth and be saved, why not have done with them like He did with the ones in the next contrasting verses 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[TedT]

So God desired them to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth, then at some point changed His desire and sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie.

No sir...

GOD created everyone with the desire that we all learn and accept the truth of the gospel which is why HE proclaimed that truth to every person created in HIS image, Col 1:23.

HE left us to make of that proclamation as we would, because a free will decision cannot be forced upon anyone by another.

And though HE created us within this desire, HE knew the possibility that some would reject the truth to some degree or another so Christ chose to be the Saviour of believers from the consequences of choosing sin. Unbelievers were condemned on the spot, left to the lie, Jn 3:18.

 

[TedT]

because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Beginning of what? The beginning of becoming HIS sheep, HIS family, HIS chosen bride when we chose to accept the gospel as truth over any other alternative.

The beginning in this case is not our creation but our election to salvation separating us from those who rebuked HIM as a liar and were condemned at that time.

 

[brightfame52]

No sir...

GOD created everyone with the desire that we all learn and accept the truth of the gospel which is why HE proclaimed that truth to every person created in HIS image, Col 1:23.

HE left us to make of that proclamation as we would, because a free will decision cannot be forced upon anyone by another.

And though HE created us within this desire, HE knew the possibility that some would reject the truth to some degree or another so Christ chose to be the Saviour of believers from the consequences of choosing sin. Unbelievers were condemned on the spot, left to the lie, Jn 3:18.

I never heard of none of this you talking about. What religion are you

 

[brightfame52]

Beginning of what? The beginning of becoming HIS sheep, HIS family, HIS chosen bride when we chose to accept the gospel as truth over any other alternative.

The beginning in this case is not our creation but our election to salvation separating us from those who rebuked HIM as a liar and were condemned at that time.

The beginning, its only one beginning, read Gen 1 Scripture states God did His Salvation choosing before the world began Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[brightfame52]

@TedT

HE brought them the delusions they now exist within.

So does 1 Tim 2:4 apply to them now ?

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

[TedT]

Predetermination does not refer to HIS creating our fates for us by HIS will, not our own free will, but rather HIS promise to fulfill by our election our self determined free will decision about which future we want to live in, HIS heaven or on our own because we think he is a liar...

 

[TedT]

@TedT



So does 1 Tim 2:4 apply to them now ?

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:18 look at the word already...

 

[brightfame52]

John 3:18 look at the word already...

Does 1 Tim 2:4 apply now to them whom God sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie and damn them ? Yes or no

 

[TedT]

Does 1 Tim 2:4 apply now to them whom God sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie and damn them ? Yes or no

Again, NO! They are condemned already as unbelievers (no faith) and only those with faith in Christ, ie, believers, are not condemned for their sins, Jn 3:18...

Free will faith is the basis for election to salvation from sin rather than condemnation for sin and free will unfaith is the basis for reprobation...NOT by GOD's will or choice but by OUR own free will choice back in the beginning of election and reprobation.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, NO! They are condemned already as unbelievers (no faith) and only those with faith in Christ, ie, believers, are not condemned for their sins, Jn 3:18...

Free will faith is the basis for election to salvation from sin rather than condemnation for sin and free will unfaith is the basis for reprobation...NOT by GOD's will or choice but by OUR own free will choice back in the beginning of election and reprobation.

You should never tell any individual unbeliever that its Gods will for them to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth, because if He has sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie and He is going to them , you would be lying to them, which isn't a good thing to do.

 

[TedT]

You should never tell any individual unbeliever that its Gods will for them to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth, because if He has sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie and He is going to them , you would be lying to them, which isn't a good thing to do.

Not lying to them but, even though making a mistake about their fate, encouraging them to seek Christ can do no one harm...

 

[brightfame52]

Not lying to them but, even though making a mistake about their fate, encouraging them to seek Christ can do no one harm...

No it would be a lie and a mistake. We should never tell anyone God desires their salvation anyway, wonder if they non elect and therefore vessels of wrath ? Also those God sends a strong delusion to believe a lie, God never intended to save them anyway, His counsels dont change. All we do is witness the Truth of the Gospel and leave the results to God.

 

[TedT]

No it would be a lie and a mistake. We should never tell anyone God desires their salvation anyway, wonder if they non elect and therefore vessels of wrath ?

Lying would mean I knew the truth about their fate in hell but told them they still had a chance at salvation. You don't know the fate of anyone so encouraging them to seek Christ would not be a lie.

If you said their salvation was secure by a reach of faith or
if you said'; just pray the sinners prayer and you will be saved' or
if you claimed that everyone had an equal chance to be saved, then knowing what you know, these would be lies.

BUT preaching the gospel to sinners is not a lie...

 

[brightfame52]

Is it Gods will to save and bring to the knowledge of the Truth, whom God of old foreordained to condemnation as these Jude 1:4

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Is it Gods will to save and bring to the knowledge of the Truth them whom Jesus said it was His Fathers will to withhold Truth from, but reveal it to others Matt 11:25-26

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.