Saviour, Saved and Salvation

L.A.M.B.

Member
The definition of saviour is two-fold;
1. In common vernacular it is any person who rescues or liberates someone from some terrible fate or danger.
2.In Christianity, God or Jesus Christ as the redeemer of sin and saver of souls.

There are many OT scripts that prove GOD as the Saviour of the children of Israel and/or OT saints.
Isaiah 43: (please read)
Isaiah 63:
8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

Many, many times we see in our studies at the beginning of Abraham onward from Egypt, God saved or rescued his ppl of promise from captivity, and annihilation. (He was not at this time in the business of saving the whole world; that was future, in Christ ! Galatians 3:Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.)
Yet these continued to reject and rebel against him requiring the institution of the Mosuac Law to bring them under subjection.

For four thousand years & change, God dealt with them in their rebellion, then he proceeded to implement his complete plan for the whole of this world that was agreed upon before the foundations were lain.
1 Timothy 2:
4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth SALVATION hath appeared to ALL men,

Titus 3:
4 But after that the kindness and LOVE OF GOD our Savior toward man appeared,
5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but according to his MERCY he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our SAVIOUR ;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT OF GOD:
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, SPECIALLY OF THOSE THAT BELIEVE.
( Btw, I am not a universalists, I stand against their hogwash ! TODAY is the DAY of our Salvation !)

It is those that BELIEVE on Jesus' d,b, & r and accept him as their Saviour that are saved!
I John 4:
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, BECAUSE HE HATH GIVEN US OF HIS SPIRIT.
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Acts 4:12 - Neither is there SALVATION in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Our wages are just bc we have sinned and rebelled against God in our sin of unbelief of his gift & his truth!
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus settled the wrath of God towards sin, in Christ Jesus his Son, to whosoever will BELIEVE ON HIM !.
1 John 2:2 - And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

We are to have compassion on one another and this lost dying world to present to them our Savior and to be a saviour of others by representing Jesus Christ, God in the flesh !
Jude 1:
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Let us not have inward fighting among the household of faith but let us rejoice that our names are written in the book of life. Let us search out sound doctrine in his truths and let's us share such in love, reasoning together that ALL might endure in righteous standing in our relationship with him !
 
Let us not have inward fighting among the household of faith but let us rejoice that our names are written in the book of life. Let us search out sound doctrine in his truths and let's us share such in love, reasoning together that ALL might endure in righteous standing in our relationship with him !
In that search for truths, there have been different discoveries of who Christ, our Savior, is exactly and how in fact one arrives at salvation.

From the Arian definition of who Christ is by JWs and Unitarians to the Mormon definition of Jesus being brothers with Satan, we have that problem. Fortunately, we have the Christological (Ecumenical) Councils that ironed that out so there's no excuse for anyone to wrongly define who Christ is.

Next, we have a clash as to how we are saved, the method of our salvation. With Calvinists, we have problem of whether or not God zaps with regenerative powers only his chosen (his elect) before only they come to faith. Christianity, at large, has not yet clearly dealt with this heresy because it involves Augustine (and his Manicheaism) who virtually everyone likes. The Protestants and Catholics have built their religions on Augustine and the Orthodox do not have any negative word against him. In the case of Calvin, he took Augustine's ball and ran with it.
 
Every individual will be held accountable on how they search out and arrive at the truth of God's word.
We are taught to be led of the teacher the H.S in prayerful study as we seek to know his truth.
His word is truth!
We are not to be led of men but to depend solely on his inspired word as our directive as we walk, learn & live in the Spirit.

In these last days I believe that one must be sold out to God's word as our standard. Today there are too many religious denominations, man made theologies, and church affiliates to chance our soul on what man or any denomination has to say about how we are to live in the word.

To trust God and be in submission to him we must renounce what ppl claim is the first true church, the reformers and their interpretations, the many corrupt denominations formed by mans divisions of theology and yield only to the Spirit's guidance.

Romans 3:3-4
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
 
Every individual will be held accountable on how they search out and arrive at the truth of God's word.
We are taught to be led of the teacher the H.S in prayerful study as we seek to know his truth.
His word is truth!
We are not to be led of men but to depend solely on his inspired word as our directive as we walk, learn & live in the Spirit.

In these last days I believe that one must be sold out to God's word as our standard. Today there are too many religious denominations, man made theologies, and church affiliates to chance our soul on what man or any denomination has to say about how we are to live in the word.

To trust God and be in submission to him we must renounce what ppl claim is the first true church, the reformers and their interpretations, the many corrupt denominations formed by mans divisions of theology and yield only to the Spirit's guidance.

Romans 3:3-4
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
The problem is that everyone claims that he is following the Bible and you end up having endless discussions on whose view of the Bible is the correct one. What's your solution for the Calvinist problem, or the JW/Unitarian problem, assuming you're not a JW, Unitarian, or Calvinist?
 
No, I am none of the above.

I only have to be assured in my heart/ mind & spirit that what I believe to be truth is what I alone will give an account of.

In my 47 yrs as a believer, never have I met any that were indoctrinated and deceived by men that I have been able to change them.

I can only present Jesus.
I can only pray that what I share will be in the Spirit and leave his work unto him.

I have failed at times and let frustration, even anger overcome the Spirit's work in me.
I have prayed for their healing and my forgiveness when I have failed, that the Spirit may get through to them by another.

Just as I believe God does not force belief neither can we. There is a discernment that we all fail to utilize at times, when there is no hope of recovery by man's means nor understanding. We just have to give them to him and let God do the reaching or the leaving of them in their delusions.

This is the best I can offer them as words are not profitable when we strive; it only subverts the hearers
2 Timothy 2:14-15
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

( It then become each individuals own responsibility to)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
No, I am none of the above.

I only have to be assured in my heart/ mind & spirit that what I believe to be truth is what I alone will give an account of.

In my 47 yrs as a believer, never have I met any that were indoctrinated and deceived by men that I have been able to change them.

I can only present Jesus.
I can only pray that what I share will be in the Spirit and leave his work unto him.

I have failed at times and let frustration, even anger overcome the Spirit's work in me.
I have prayed for their healing and my forgiveness when I have failed, that the Spirit may get through to them by another.

Just as I believe God does not force belief neither can we. There is a discernment that we all fail to utilize at times, when there is no hope of recovery by man's means nor understanding. We just have to give them to him and let God do the reaching or the leaving of them in their delusions.

This is the best I can offer them as words are not profitable when we strive; it only subverts the hearers
2 Timothy 2:14-15
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

( It then become each individuals own responsibility to)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Here is the deal within “ Christendom “. With all the different denominations and differences with various doctrines , no one wants to ever admit they have been indoctrinated ( brainwashed ) about their beliefs. No one wants to admit they are wrong or what they believe and hold dear is not true. That’s what the “ cults “ do or believe but not us “ Christians “.

I know personally I was indoctrinated with Augustine and Calvin for over 40 years. I know plenty of people still would never in a million years even hint at or admit they could be wrong. They defend it at all costs and would rather divide over it than fellowship with a non Calvinist. That’s the plain truth 99% of the time.
 
In the last 7 yrs on forums I have revised my own thoughts about what I was taught and heard such as the pre-trib rapture, grace ect.

I had only heard of Mormons and JW by their witness or missions but did not know what they believed. I did not have a clue what a calvinist, arminianist, unitarian, deniers of Christ's deity ect was until I joined the forums.

I live in the South with multiple denominations but it was never a huge factor as we all seemed to claim salvation and believe in Jesus, eventhough we did not mix denoms.

Our flesh is self absorbed and puffed up, if only in our own minds. We do think we ALL are correct and could not possibly be wrong in anything we undertake. I've had to reassess my own inner person for I am stubborn, love to win arguments and do not see grey, just black & white. So yeah, it is easy to be blind and twice as hard to be corrected.

IT is a shame that we all claim to love God, his word and walk in the Spirit yet cannot find the common thread that should bind us as believers instead of unraveling our faith !
 
In the last 7 yrs on forums I have revised my own thoughts about what I was taught and heard such as the pre-trib rapture, grace ect.

I had only heard of Mormons and JW by their witness or missions but did not know what they believed. I did not have a clue what a calvinist, arminianist, unitarian, deniers of Christ's deity ect was until I joined the forums.

I live in the South with multiple denominations but it was never a huge factor as we all seemed to claim salvation and believe in Jesus, eventhough we did not mix denoms.

Our flesh is self absorbed and puffed up, if only in our own minds. We do think we ALL are correct and could not possibly be wrong in anything we undertake. I've had to reassess my own inner person for I am stubborn, love to win arguments and do not see grey, just black & white. So yeah, it is easy to be blind and twice as hard to be corrected.

IT is a shame that we all claim to love God, his word and walk in the Spirit yet cannot find the common thread that should bind us as believers instead of unraveling our faith !
I also live in the south where Baptists and Methodists are the predominant denominations with the occasional Evangelical, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, and Catholic Church. Orthodox churches are rare but there's several of them popping up in the Appalachian region. If I just landed from Mars, to which Church do I go to? With which Church would I start from? There is no Church guide in the Bible. That's because the Early Church was fully established for over a decade before Paul's ink was even dry for his first Epistle, let alone copied and propagated throughout the Empire. So there was no need for a Church Services guide to be in the Bible. So where do we go to find this Apostolic Church?
 
In the last 7 yrs on forums I have revised my own thoughts about what I was taught and heard such as the pre-trib rapture, grace ect.

I had only heard of Mormons and JW by their witness or missions but did not know what they believed. I did not have a clue what a calvinist, arminianist, unitarian, deniers of Christ's deity ect was until I joined the forums.

I live in the South with multiple denominations but it was never a huge factor as we all seemed to claim salvation and believe in Jesus, eventhough we did not mix denoms.

Our flesh is self absorbed and puffed up, if only in our own minds. We do think we ALL are correct and could not possibly be wrong in anything we undertake. I've had to reassess my own inner person for I am stubborn, love to win arguments and do not see grey, just black & white. So yeah, it is easy to be blind and twice as hard to be corrected.

IT is a shame that we all claim to love God, his word and walk in the Spirit yet cannot find the common thread that should bind us as believers instead of unraveling our faith !
You described me pretty good for many decades. I was driven to “ win” arguments. It’s no longer about that but about presenting the truth on core / essential doctrines of the Christian faith. It’s up to the person to accept or reject it. And yes it’s about reflecting Gods love to others and especially to those we disagree with . It’s easy to love those who are like ourselves, the challenge is to love those who are different, difficult, obtuse, insult you etc….
 
I also live in the south where Baptists and Methodists are the predominant denominations with the occasional Evangelical, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, and Catholic Church. Orthodox churches are rare but there's several of them popping up in the Appalachian region. If I just landed from Mars, to which Church do I go to? With which Church would I start from? There is no Church guide in the Bible. That's because the Early Church was fully established for over a decade before Paul's ink was even dry for his first Epistle, let alone copied and propagated throughout the Empire. So there was no need for a Church Services guide to be in the Bible. So where do we go to find this Apostolic Church?
What kind of church are you looking for?

For me, I grew up in the Methodist church.
Where I grew up they taught the Bible in kid's Sunday school, but regular service... I didn't see anything that I considered life changing.

I left 53 years ago and several years later I was invited to a Calvary Chapel, in Costa Mesa, CA.

I met Jesus that night, and I've been learning ever since.



For what it's worth, here's their church locator site.



If they have one in your neck of the woods, and you hadn't been there before... check it out.
 
As has been stated in this thread there is no unity in denominations, then where do we go to find an apolostic church ?........Jesus said where 2 or 3 are gathered, I am in the midst of you. Soooo we go to God !

The Spirit is the discerner of hearts, the word the corrector of our lifestyles. We then must go to God in our interpretations, our discernments, our love and our walk. Only our faith in him will unite us in fellowship with others. It's not about the assembly among what man deems the church rather it is about the breaking of the bread of the word of God and partaking of his truths among believers.

It is not about the debate, the correction of others nor our desire to make others understand, rather it is about going out into a lost world sharing the gospel and making ppl aware of the love of God towards humanity in the person of Jesus, his Son and the sacrifice he made for them and all mankind !

IT IS about our SAVIOUR bringing us the GIFT OF SALVATION, presenting us a way to have a relationship with the Father through his love & his truth that we might be SAVED, enduring unto the end to inherit eternal life !

THIS IS WHAT GOD IS ALL ABOUT, HAVING A RIGHTEOUS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS CREATED !
 
As has been stated in this thread there is no unity in denominations, then where do we go to find an apolostic church ?........Jesus said where 2 or 3 are gathered, I am in the midst of you.
Correct. but as in the Church at Corinth, there was Divisions. and the bible states, Amos 3:3 "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" so that nonsense of, "Agree to disagree", is killing the congregations, not the church, but local congregations. we must do like the apostle did at Corinth, there was Divisions.... Preach the TRUTH without compromise. because compromise is a cancer to the body of Christ. and the anti-body is the TRUTH. this nonsense to agree just to get along. is just that nonsense. one need to be awakened to the truth. for the LOVE of the Gospel/TRUTH has no defense against it.

if more people would follow God WORD, instead of what a man said about God Word, many of division would be eliminated. I truly believe this. Ignorance is no excuse, especially when truth is available. as Amos 3:3 "except they be agreed?" well 1 Thessalonians 5:21 states, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." THIS IS WHAT THE BODY OF CHRIST SHOULD .... "agree" ON. PROVE ONESELF, 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:16 "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."

101G
 
In the last 7 yrs on forums I have revised my own thoughts about what I was taught and heard such as the pre-trib rapture, grace ect.

I had only heard of Mormons and JW by their witness or missions but did not know what they believed. I did not have a clue what a calvinist, arminianist, unitarian, deniers of Christ's deity ect was until I joined the forums.

I live in the South with multiple denominations but it was never a huge factor as we all seemed to claim salvation and believe in Jesus, eventhough we did not mix denoms.

Our flesh is self absorbed and puffed up, if only in our own minds. We do think we ALL are correct and could not possibly be wrong in anything we undertake. I've had to reassess my own inner person for I am stubborn, love to win arguments and do not see grey, just black & white. So yeah, it is easy to be blind and twice as hard to be corrected.

IT is a shame that we all claim to love God, his word and walk in the Spirit yet cannot find the common thread that should bind us as believers instead of unraveling our faith !

God gave to us One Common Ground = "take off your shoes for where you are standing is Holy Ground."

The Common Ground is the Word that was God and came in the Flesh, the Holy Spirit and the Holy Scriptures.

Unless you have ALL 3, one will not be able to be able to SEE very far ahead.

Obstacle #1 - Indoctrination from wherever the persons youth to adulthood led them.

Obstacle #2 - The control mechanisms that religion has in place to keep the sheep dumbed down.

Obstacle #3 - 'Respect of persons' and/or partiality and/or fear of man = STATUS

Compare the STATUS of religious men of renown with the LORD Jesus Christ

Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant,
And as a root out of dry ground.
He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him
.
He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. - Isaiah 53:1-3
 
Correct. but as in the Church at Corinth, there was Divisions. and the bible states, Amos 3:3 "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" so that nonsense of, "Agree to disagree", is killing the congregations, not the church, but local congregations. we must do like the apostle did at Corinth, there was Divisions.... Preach the TRUTH without compromise. because compromise is a cancer to the body of Christ. and the anti-body is the TRUTH. this nonsense to agree just to get along. is just that nonsense. one need to be awakened to the truth. for the LOVE of the Gospel/TRUTH has no defense against it.

if more people would follow God WORD, instead of what a man said about God Word, many of division would be eliminated. I truly believe this. Ignorance is no excuse, especially when truth is available. as Amos 3:3 "except they be agreed?" well 1 Thessalonians 5:21 states, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." THIS IS WHAT THE BODY OF CHRIST SHOULD .... "agree" ON. PROVE ONESELF, 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:16 "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."

101G
HURRAY - you are the first person beside myself that exposes the "nonsense" of "agree to disagree".

i believe that was spawned by liberals - my Jewish liberal mother-in-law would say that all the time.

"rightly dividing the word of truth" requires a dead man with a LIVING SPIRIT - dwell on that
 
HURRAY - you are the first person beside myself that exposes the "nonsense" of "agree to disagree".

i believe that was spawned by liberals - my Jewish liberal mother-in-law would say that all the time.

"rightly dividing the word of truth" requires a dead man with a LIVING SPIRIT - dwell on that
(smile), true, we are not alone. ..... stay strong in the Lord, and stay blessed.

101G.
 
God gave to us One Common Ground = "take off your shoes for where you are standing is Holy Ground."
@L.A.M.B. also. this is correct, and you two are on point of the Lord Jesus teaching. for by taking off one's shoes, then on can be firmly ROOTED and GROUNDED in, in, in, in, the Word of God. scripture, Matthew 13:8 "But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold." by falling ...."INTO" ... Good/Holy ground one can be planted by the river of LIVING WATER so one can GROW. this is the whole purpose of the Sower, prepare the ground for reception of his word/seed. and God ground is a ready mix, (holy), cultivated, (broken up soil) for entry of the seed/Word. weeds and stones removed, and his ground is well watered. meaning when one take their shoes off, a WELL of LIVING WATER will spring up in the believer, and they will never thirst no more.

101G.
 
ONE MAN"S OBEDIENCE

not our obedience but CHRIST'S Obedience brought us to God

1 Peter 3:18 -
because Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, so that He might bring you to God, having been put to death indeed in the flesh, but having been made alive in the spirit,


Philippians 2:8
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death,
even the death of the cross.
“Abba, Father,” He said, “all things are possible for You. Take this cup from Me.
Yet not what I will, but what You will.” - Mark 14:36



Romans 5:19
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
But the Free Gift is not like the offense.
For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the Grace of the One Man, Jesus Christ,
abounded to many.
And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation,
.but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners,
so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

AFTER Christ brings us to God and we receive His Spirit whereby we cry "Abba Father"
our obedience begins as we are led by the Holy Spirit.

For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” -
Romans 8:15
 
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ONE MAN"S OBEDIENCE

not our obedience but CHRIST'S Obedience brought us to God

1 Peter 3:18 -
because Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, so that He might bring you to God, having been put to death indeed in the flesh, but having been made alive in the spirit,


Philippians 2:8
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death,
even the death of the cross.
“Abba, Father,” He said, “all things are possible for You. Take this cup from Me.
Yet not what I will, but what You will.” - Mark 14:36



Romans 5:19
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
But the Free Gift is not like the offense.
For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the Grace of the One Man, Jesus Christ,
abounded to many.
And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation,
.but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners,
so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

AFTER Christ brings us to God and we receive His Spirit whereby we cry "Abba Father"
our obedience begins as we are led by the Holy Spirit.

For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” -
Romans 8:15
Amen, this is our only righteousness, our salvation by HIS OBEDIENCE!

Romans 519-21
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of ONE shall many be made righteous.


… But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: that as sin hath reigned unto DEATH, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto ETERNAL LIFE by Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
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