Romans - Outside In

[mikesw]

One thing I am recommending for the first session is to "hear" the letter in full. There are several ways to do this but a simple (and free) approach is to use the Blue Letter Bible online system that has an audio reading of the text. It runs about an hour and a quarter for the whole letter.

Romans Chapter 1

English Standard Version: Romans Chapter 1 @ Blue Letter Bible

www.blueletterbible.org

The weakness of that approach is that Paul's rhetoric has been designed so carefully that people fail to recognize the rhetoric that is there. Even Ben Witherington III, having written on Romans and also on New Testament rhetoric, has failed to recognize that rhetoric in Romans-- of augmentation in 5:16-19. Paul also repeats "God gave them up" in 24-28, which has the effect of reinforcing the desperate situation of the Jews (despite the issue briefly sounding more like gentile behavior). It took several years for me to stumble upon the message of Rom 6 and 7 and it was just recently that 2:17-3:2 made sense in the context. Therefore, a read-through of the letter, while a great idea, is not going to give a sufficient starting point to understand the letter intuitively -- if that is even possible by anyone. The letter is more like Isaiah in that the ideas have to be worked through. The verses have to be studied deeply. I have written over 60 pages to explain Paul's approach in Rom 4:1-2 -- partly because I was getting more insight into the indirect rebuke Paul was making.

P.S. -- I'm just hoping people will catch on to the situation Paul was confronting in Rome and how he worked it through his writing to fix problems of the gentiles and ultimately get them to accept that Jews could be saved.

 

[civic]

One thing I am recommending for the first session is to "hear" the letter in full. There are several ways to do this but a simple (and free) approach is to use the Blue Letter Bible online system that has an audio reading of the text. It runs about an hour and a quarter for the whole letter.

Romans Chapter 1

English Standard Version: Romans Chapter 1 @ Blue Letter Bible

www.blueletterbible.org

I have Moo from NICNT, Schreiner from ECNT and Murray from the older NICNT. I Ould be interested in your opinion on them. Thanks !

 

[Swordman]

I have Moo from NICNT, Schreiner from ECNT and Murray from the older NICNT. I Ould be interested in your opinion on them. Thanks !

I have not used Murray.

I use Moo and Schreiner as referenced in my book. They are generally good. However, I prefer Dunn, Longenecker, and Gorman.

There are always books coming out on Romans, almost every year.

 

[Swordman]

The weakness of that approach is that Paul's rhetoric has been designed so carefully that people fail to recognize the rhetoric that is there. Even Ben Witherington III, having written on Romans and also on New Testament rhetoric, has failed to recognize that rhetoric in Romans-- of augmentation in 5:16-19. Paul also repeats "God gave them up" in 24-28, which has the effect of reinforcing the desperate situation of the Jews (despite the issue briefly sounding more like gentile behavior). It took several years for me to stumble upon the message of Rom 6 and 7 and it was just recently that 2:17-3:2 made sense in the context. Therefore, a read-through of the letter, while a great idea, is not going to give a sufficient starting point to understand the letter intuitively -- if that is even possible by anyone. The letter is more like Isaiah in that the ideas have to be worked through. The verses have to be studied deeply. I have written over 60 pages to explain Paul's approach in Rom 4:1-2 -- partly because I was getting more insight into the indirect rebuke Paul was making.

P.S. -- I'm just hoping people will catch on to the situation Paul was confronting in Rome and how he worked it through his writing to fix problems of the gentiles and ultimately get them to accept that Jews could be saved.

The problem is, the original audience would not have read the text. They would have heard it. Most people were not literate in the first century.

Are you suggesting we would better understand it than the original audience?

 

[mikesw]

I have Moo from NICNT, Schreiner from ECNT and Murray from the older NICNT. I Ould be interested in your opinion on them. Thanks !

Checkout https://bestcommentaries.com/romans/ for some sense of order. One problem there is they do no list someone well known like Ernst Käsemann.
Originally I think I liked Schreiner's commentary format. He is decent but Moo covers topics better. Also Moo is a bit more honest to say when a passage is unclear. (Some writers seem to gloss over the difficulties -- but often just in short commentaries.)

 

[mikesw]

The problem is, the original audience would not have read the text. They would have heard it. Most people were not literate in the first century.

Are you suggesting we would better understand it than the original audience?

I say the opposite. We do not understand the letter because it was written narrowly to be understood on first reading/hearing of it by the original recipients. Until we have understood the situation and attitude of the gentile recipients, we cannot simply listen to the letter and recognize it. The commentaries need to show not only a theory of what the text says. They need to present the idea in a fashion that we could see how the original readers/auditors would have the same understanding in a single hearing of the letter. (Okay. there are probably a handful of passages that the recipients would have to read more carefully. Once it was figured out, then the idea could be shared with everyone.)

 

[mikesw]

I have not used Murray.

I use Moo and Schreiner as referenced in my book. They are generally good. However, I prefer Dunn, Longenecker, and Gorman.

There are always books coming out on Romans, almost every year.

I have some notes from Dunn's commentary. I keep forgetting that Longenecker has one (okay. two). It is available as an online ebook so I may review some of it at a nearby library. As to Gorman, his commentary is generally shorter than I find useful for references in papers on Romans.

 

[Swordman]

I have some notes from Dunn's commentary. I keep forgetting that Longenecker has one (okay. two). It is available as an online ebook so I may review some of it at a nearby library. As to Gorman, his commentary is generally shorter than I find useful for references in papers on Romans.

Gorman is writing more for the church than the academy. He is still an excellent scholar. (I trained under Gorman.)

 

[Swordman]

Next week we are going to do an introductory video to discuss the class that begins on October 17 (beginning at 7:00 PM EST on Thursdays). I will post a link later for the video.

The sessions will be held at Lansdowne Alliance Church (Baltimore MD) if anyone is interested in attending in person.

As a note, if you plan to attend the sessions, there is a pre-class survey I would appreciate you filling out. You can do it anonymously. This is for my thesis research, so you would be helping me out. I will post a link for that as well.

It is optional, so do not feel obligated.

 

[Swordman]

Next week we are going to do an introductory video to discuss the class that begins on October 17 (beginning at 7:00 PM EST on Thursdays). I will post a link later for the video.

The sessions will be held at Lansdowne Alliance Church (Baltimore MD) if anyone is interested in attending in person.

As a note, if you plan to attend the sessions, there is a pre-class survey I would appreciate you filling out. You can do it anonymously. This is for my thesis research, so you would be helping me out. I will post a link for that as well.

It is optional, so do not feel obligated.

I spoke to the pastor of the church and he wants to record it and then post. Once it is posted, I will provide the link.

 

[Swordman]

Introductory Video for the class that begins October 17.

 

[Swordman]

Just a quick update here. The class starts this coming Thursday. This initial class is what I would call Session 0 - Introduction to the class.

No assignments, just come (online or in person). We begin reading or listening for the following week after this introductory class.

 

[Swordman]

Sorry - could not resist.

The class starts tomorrow. 7:00 PM EST.

The online link is in the prior post.