Refuting effectually caused faith

[FreeInChrist]

The Holy Spirit does not "cause" you to do anything.
You are a free will moral agent, and its your decision to do what you do, think what you think, and believe what you believe.

God does not cause or force anyone to have faith in Christ...........He Requires it before He will save you.

Every person, as Paul Teaches in Romans, "has the measure of FAITH"....... we are born with it.

This is why people BELIEVE in Scientology, or in the Buddha, or in The Theory of Evolution.......or in ALLAH.
As that is where they have chosen to place their God given faith.

God says to us all.....>"""come to JESUS......place YOUR FAITH in JESUS""".. and God will save you.

You decide where you place YOUR faith........, and God honors your choice now and in eternity.
Bottom line.

Amen, amen

 

[Jim]

Everything is a gift from Him including our faith.

That can be interpreted in a lot of different ways, some right and some wrong. If you intend such gifts as individually given, then I disagree.

 

[Jim]

The Holy Spirit does not "cause" you to do anything.
You are a free will moral agent, and its your decision to do what you do, think what you think, and believe what you believe.

God does not cause or force anyone to have faith in Christ...........He Requires it before He will save you.

Every person, as Paul Teaches in Romans, "has the measure of FAITH"....... we are born with it.

This is why people BELIEVE in Scientology, or in the Buddha, or in The Theory of Evolution.......or in ALLAH.
As that is where they have chosen to place their God given faith.

God says to us all.....>"""come to JESUS......place YOUR FAITH in JESUS""".. and God will save you.

You decide where you place YOUR faith........, and God honors your choice now and in eternity.
Bottom line.

The measure you are referring to from Romans 12 relates to the gifts. The gifts are measured out according to the level or degree of faith of the one receiving the gifts. It is not faith that is being measured out; rather it is the gifts that are given according to the measure, the level, the amount, in proportion to, the faith of the recipient.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Nonsense.

A SINNER, gives their faith in Christ to God.
They dont have the Spirit yet.. and they still BELIEVE.....>>"while we were YET SINNERS"....."God saved us".

"Jesus came to save SINNERS"......and sinners are able to BELIEVE in Jesus, and that is why God will save them.

The Holy Spirit's part in this is to open your heart to the TRUTH<.. to "bring you to the knowledge of the TRUTH".... so that you can then BELIEVE IT with your faith.......or NOT.

You are teaching, as usual, a brain dead hyper calvinism religious cult theology, that falsely teaches that God has to give you the new birth, before He forgives your sin......so that you can afterwards "have faith".
That is Theological insanity, that is anti-Gospel and anti-faith.
Whereas, the NT Teaches, that you have to give YOUR faith to God, for Him to count it as your Righteousness, so that HE will THEN forgive your sin, and give you the new birth.

Your Brain, your ability to think, ... just like all Hyper Calvinists, is so warped that you can't even understand what im showing you while the other believers here read it and it makes SIMPLE and perfect sense to them......but not to you, as that is what Calvinism does to you mind.
Calvinsim, especially the Hyper version, causes you to see "elect" and "predestined" in the Bible, where its not found at all.
Calvinism damages your thinking so that you can't comprehend simple theological truth., and all you are left with is trying to drag real Christians into the cult of John Calvinism, the Hyper version.

CHRISTians lead people to CHRIST.

Calvinists lead Christians or Non, ... into mind blinding Calvinism.

These are not the same ministry, and the one that is not of GOD, is very obvious to a REAL Christian who isn't deceived.

Beautifully stated — that aligns with the whole counsel of Scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

@brightfame52 is correct when he says that we need God’s grace to quicken our spirit and respond to the Gospel.

This does not deny free will.

Yet it affirms a new Spiritual will given with the new heart in regeneration, so its the new will and heart of the new man that responds positively to the Gospel

 

[FreeInChrist]

My intention, Jim, is not to describe or explain God’s sovereignty.
I am just trying to point out to a fact: that God enables us to walk, eat, remember, analyze, exist.
Everything is a gift from Him including our faith.
@brightfame52 is correct when he says that we need God’s grace to quicken our spirit and respond to the Gospel.

This does not deny free will.
Does admitting that we need God’s grace to memorize denies human memory?

“@brightfame52’s position functionally denies free will, which is why Scripture tying human response to God’s sovereignty is avoided.”

 

[DavidTree]

The Holy Spirit does not "cause" you to do anything.
You are a free will moral agent, and its your decision to do what you do, think what you think, and believe what you believe.

God does not cause or force anyone to have faith in Christ...........He Requires it before He will save you.

Every person, as Paul Teaches in Romans, "has the measure of FAITH"....... we are born with it.

This is why people BELIEVE in Scientology, or in the Buddha, or in The Theory of Evolution.......or in ALLAH.
As that is where they have chosen to place their God given faith.

God says to us all.....>"""come to JESUS......place YOUR FAITH in JESUS""".. and God will save you.

You decide where you place YOUR faith........, and God honors your choice now and in eternity.
Bottom line.

FREE WILL = TRUTH

Question: Where does saving faith come from???

 

[DavidTree]

The fundamental problem you present is clearly a poor description or explanation of God's sovereignty. God's Spirit is not enabling; rather God's Spirit is supporting and guiding.

Whose 'will' saved us???

"Of HIS Own Will HE begot us" - James 1:18

Can you and @brightfame52 and @Pancho Frijoles and @FreeInChrist and @TibiasDad and @Behold FIND the one verse/passage that encapsulates BOTH the Will of God and the will of man???

 

[FreeInChrist]

The Holy Spirit does not "cause" you to do anything.

A statement of truth, truly stated but just one side comment because I experience this.

The Holy Spirit causes no one to do anything.... but He WILL give a warning as necessary... and I am not talking about being run over by a train crossing some tracks....

You are a free will moral agent, and its your decision to do what you do, think what you think, and believe what you believe.

God does not cause or force anyone to have faith in Christ...........He Requires it before He will save you.

Every person, as Paul Teaches in Romans, "has the measure of FAITH"....... we are born with it.

This is why people BELIEVE in Scientology, or in the Buddha, or in The Theory of Evolution.......or in ALLAH.
As that is where they have chosen to place their God given faith.

God says to us all.....>"""come to JESUS......place YOUR FAITH in JESUS""".. and God will save you.

You decide where you place YOUR faith........, and God honors your choice now and in eternity.
Bottom line.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Whose 'will' saved us???

"Of HIS Own Will HE begot us" - James 1:18

Can you and @brightfame52 and @Pancho Frijoles and @FreeInChrist and @TibiasDad FIND the one verse/passage that encapsulates BOTH the Will of God and the will of man???

Are you thinking
John 1:12–13 explicitly joins both realities: humans must receive and believe, yet the new birth itself is of God. God’s will initiates; man’s will responds. Scripture affirms both without contradiction.

 

[DavidTree]

Are you thinking
John 1:12–13 explicitly joins both realities: humans must receive and believe, yet the new birth itself is of God. God’s will initiates; man’s will responds. Scripture affirms both without contradiction.

Ladies & Gentlemen

We have the Winner of the Search for Truth on the question of 'free will vs God's Will'

The TRUTH Treasure Trophy goes to @FreeInChrist = "John 1:12–13 explicitly joins both realities:"

GREAT NEWS = this TRUTH is for everyone to believe in and be blessed thereby

 

[FreeInChrist]

Ladies & Gentlemen

We have the Winner of the Search for Truth on the question of 'free will vs God's Will'

The TRUTH Treasure Trophy goes to @FreeInChrist = "John 1:12–13 explicitly joins both realities:"

GREAT NEWS = this TRUTH is for everyone to believe in and be blessed thereby

This truth for everyone is so difficult for some to believe. Tis a shame.

 

[TibiasDad]

Whose 'will' saved us???

"Of HIS Own Will HE begot us" - James 1:18

Can you and @brightfame52 and @Pancho Frijoles and @FreeInChrist and @TibiasDad and @Behold FIND the one verse/passage that encapsulates BOTH the Will of God and the will of man???

James 1:25But whoever looks intently into
(This is the will of man)

the perfect law that gives freedom,
(This is the will of God)

and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—
(This is the will of man.)

they will be blessed in what they do.
(This is the will of God,)

Doug

 

[DavidTree]

James 1:25But whoever looks intently into
(This is the will of man)

the perfect law that gives freedom,
(This is the will of God)

and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—
(This is the will of man.)

they will be blessed in what they do.
(This is the will of God,)

Doug

AWESOME - Thank You

Two Questions:
a.) Does one precede the other?

b.) Are they independent of each other? - please share your answer on either Y or N

 

[TibiasDad]

AWESOME - Thank You

Two Questions:
a.) Does one precede the other?

b.) Are they independent of each other? - please share your answer on either Y or N

A) The will of God necessarily precedes the will of man, for the will of God allows for the will of man to exist and participate.

B) The will of God does not impede the will of man. God’s will said “don’t eat of the tree”, but man’s will said “I will anyway!”

Doug

 

[DavidTree]

A) The will of God necessarily precedes the will of man, for the will of God allows for the will of man to exist and participate.

B) The will of God does not impede the will of man. God’s will said “don’t eat of the tree”, but man’s will said “I will anyway!”

Doug

Thank you again for the added insight for us to SEE

 

[DavidTree]

A) The will of God necessarily precedes the will of man, for the will of God allows for the will of man to exist and participate.

B) The will of God does not impede the will of man. God’s will said “don’t eat of the tree”, but man’s will said “I will anyway!”

Doug

A & B are 100% Correct

What would Step 'C' be in Salvation???

 

[TibiasDad]

A & B are 100% Correct

What would Step 'C' be in Salvation???

Not sure what you’re asking…


Doug

 

[DavidTree]

Not sure what you’re asking…


Doug

"One plants and another waters but God brings the increase."

 

[TibiasDad]

"One plants and another waters but God brings the increase."

God is the only one with power to do anything; he conditions his actions on our trust in his promise to do what only he can do.

Doug