Rapture Time

[DavidTree]

Yes I know it is for you have these verses,

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:‘The sun will be darkened,and the moon will not give its light;the stars will fall from the sky,and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.b’
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

So because this gathering takes place AFTER THE TRIBULATON OF THOSE DAYS, you can't have the gather in verse 31 talking about the church. But then you have the verses Mt 24:32,44 very clearly seems like it's talking to the church. or some type of early rapture.

My belief is a Pre-Wrath rapture. Not Pre Trib but Pre Wrath. In a nut shell goes like this.....Rev 6 church is still here.....all the things of Mt 24 are in Rev 6. You see great tribultion at the 5th Seal again...in Rev 6....but that's not wrath.....even says so end of Rev 6....for the great day of his wrath is come....meaning come now at the end of 6....Church is raptured BEFORE the wrath....Rev 7 says first though the 144,000 are sealed and look at what you see in the next verse....surprise, surprise.....

After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:“Salvation to our God,who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb!” Rev 7:9,10

That's the raptured saints.....AFTER tribulation but the wrath doesn't start until Rev 8 .

One can even see for futher proof.....John asked the angel who these people are.....and he tells them they're the saints which have come out of great tribulation. OK so they went through tribulation.....but weren't there when the wrath begins....which takes place in Rev 8:5

So there is a take away rapture sort of like PreTrib but not quite. It's Pre Wrath. And this means all lines up for Matt 24 too. Compare Matt 24, to Rev 6. I think you'll find it's a complete match.


I think I can show and have though a PreWrath one. And I think it makes all Matt 24 make sense.

Pre-Wrath is 100% Guaranteed TRUTH for Blood Washed Saints = 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and 5:9

And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit, 7so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Achaia who believe. 8For from you the word of the Lord has sounded forth, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place. Your faith toward God has gone out, so that we do not need to say anything. 9For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,
10and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
AND
5:9 - For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Notice that the Holy Spirit speaking thru the Apostle Paul begins and ends 1 Thessalonians with the GUARANTEE of
God's Love for us in Christ.

 

[DavidTree]

Articles like this one are not helpful at all. The following quote reveals the bias immediately and where they're coming from:

"While there is no one verse that specifically addresses the rapture, understanding the timing of the end-time events including the rapture is a matter of deduction based on a careful study of the passages that address the Lord’s return, and one can only arrive at a rapture that precedes the 7 year tribulation period."

Really, that's the ONLY conclusion that we can arrive at? That's unbelievable. Even if that were true, and I don't believe it is, notice how they've already gone ahead and done your thinking for you - and conveniently they have already come to the "right" conclusion:

i.e. the "rapture precedes the 7 year tribulation period".

First, because of the deception of dispensationalism (dsp), we have to define "rapture". Before dsp came along in about 1830, the rapture meant the event described in 1 Thess. 4:15-17. In those verses we see the rapture taking place immediately after the 2nd coming of the Lord. This is the true Biblical rapture - specifically vs. 17 "Then we who are alive and remain will be CAUGHT UP (rapturo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, ..."

The rapture is NOT secret, where only believers can see Jesus coming. "Every eye will see Him." Rev. 1:7 He will come IN FLAMING FIRE with HIS MIGHTY ANGELS and with millions of believers who have died previously. We are not told that we will DISAPPEAR when He comes, but we will be caught up into the clouds. If we are still alive at the rapture, people will SEE us rise into the clouds. The rapture is NOT a quiet event. Since it occurs at the 2nd coming there will be much noise - The Lord will descend with a SHOUT, with the VOICE of the archangel, with the TRUMPET of God.

The rapture DOES NOT OCCUR 7 years before the 2nd coming. It occurs AT the 2nd coming.

The 7 year tribulation is also the invention of dsp. You can't simply transport Daniel's 70th week into the future, much less label it "the seven-year tribulation". Those specific words are not found anywhere in the Bible. It is much more believeable that the 70th week came right after the 69th week --DUH. There was NO time gap in the first 69 weeks, so what makes us think we can INSERT a time gap of over 2000 years between the 69th week and the 70th week? ONLY A DISPENSATIONAL BIAS produces such manipulation of scripture and the TRUTH is ignored.

Have you noticed that JESUS and the Apostles never spoke of nor referenced a "7 Year" Tribulation Period

Not once spoken of in the Gospel
Not once spoken of in Acts
Not once spoken of in the Apostles Letters
Not once spoken of in Revelation

 

[DavidTree]

The million dollar question is when Jesus is addressing the disciples question about His return is He dealing with the nation of Israel ( His Elect ) or with the church ?

I believe He is discussing Israel in Matthew 24 and not the church. I'm also a pre trib but not dogmatic .

You owe me a Million Dollar$

Please begin making payments ASAP as our home needs some repair work - Thank You Brother Civic

You can PM me for my address to send the check(s) - Thanks Again for your Commitment

 

[DavidTree]

Articles like this one are not helpful at all. The following quote reveals the bias immediately and where they're coming from:

"While there is no one verse that specifically addresses the rapture, understanding the timing of the end-time events including the rapture is a matter of deduction based on a careful study of the passages that address the Lord’s return, and one can only arrive at a rapture that precedes the 7 year tribulation period."

Really, that's the ONLY conclusion that we can arrive at? That's unbelievable. Even if that were true, and I don't believe it is, notice how they've already gone ahead and done your thinking for you - and conveniently they have already come to the "right" conclusion:

i.e. the "rapture precedes the 7 year tribulation period".

First, because of the deception of dispensationalism (dsp), we have to define "rapture". Before dsp came along in about 1830, the rapture meant the event described in 1 Thess. 4:15-17. In those verses we see the rapture taking place immediately after the 2nd coming of the Lord. This is the true Biblical rapture - specifically vs. 17 "Then we who are alive and remain will be CAUGHT UP (rapturo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, ..."

The rapture is NOT secret, where only believers can see Jesus coming. "Every eye will see Him." Rev. 1:7 He will come IN FLAMING FIRE with HIS MIGHTY ANGELS and with millions of believers who have died previously. We are not told that we will DISAPPEAR when He comes, but we will be caught up into the clouds. If we are still alive at the rapture, people will SEE us rise into the clouds. The rapture is NOT a quiet event. Since it occurs at the 2nd coming there will be much noise - The Lord will descend with a SHOUT, with the VOICE of the archangel, with the TRUMPET of God.

The rapture DOES NOT OCCUR 7 years before the 2nd coming. It occurs AT the 2nd coming.

The 7 year tribulation is also the invention of dsp. You can't simply transport Daniel's 70th week into the future, much less label it "the seven-year tribulation". Those specific words are not found anywhere in the Bible. It is much more believeable that the 70th week came right after the 69th week --DUH. There was NO time gap in the first 69 weeks, so what makes us think we can INSERT a time gap of over 2000 years between the 69th week and the 70th week? ONLY A DISPENSATIONAL BIAS produces such manipulation of scripture and the TRUTH is ignored.

Not only does the article attempt to direct your thinking of a pre-determined outcome/conclusion but David Jeremiah and others also seek to VOID your own ability to think in making a BLANK suggestion by saying: "nothing needs to happen before the rapture".

This statement is blatantly false and even worse.

These are mind-control techniques that mesmerize/hypnotise the audience to bring them under the power of suggestion.

 

[DavidTree]

That is true and perhaps a weakness to my argument. I still lean though that all he was basically saying is everyone that is saved will be going. He chose the elect word for of course it is those who are justified. They're in Christ Jesus who is the elect so all the elect go. I think that's how the disciples would have taken that too...all or anyone serving God will be gathered.

Also there's only so many words he could have used. We say "church" but church means this,

ekklésia: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Original Word: ἐκκλησία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ekklésia
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-klay-see'-ah)
Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Usage: an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers.

I wouldn't think when Jesus was even saying the word church he was meaning some type of unique individual structure that didn't include all Gentiles and Jews alike. Elect would cover all the possibilities of who they were....they are the ones right with God and living for God. So he didn't say he was gathering together the

church.....wouldn't need to elect are Christians.....and he wouldn't say gathering together the Christians.....the term wasn't ever used by Jesus even not until later in the book of Acts. So elect in my mind seems the only term he would have used.

i just want to make sure i understand you correctly.

Which term was not used by JESUS? Elect or Christian

 

[Rockson]

i just want to make sure i understand you correctly.

Which term was not used by JESUS? Elect or Christian

The word Christian was not used in Mt 24. But it wouldn't be even if Jesus knew all God's children would be termed that in some future day by worldly people. And he didn't use the term church which means the called ones. Elect covers called out ones too as you can see in Rom 8:23

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth. Rom 8:23

 

[Rockson]

Its one of those fun topics of discussion and to see the other POV's out there but its not salvific which is why I'm noy dogmatic about it. But I am dogmatic about His 2nd Coming being a literal/physical return to this earth.

I agree. The same as I.

 

[DavidTree]

The word Christian was not used in Mt 24. But it wouldn't be even if Jesus knew all God's children would be termed that in some future day by worldly people. And he didn't use the term church which means the called ones. Elect covers called out ones too as you can see in Rom 8:23

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth. Rom 8:23

CORRECT to Romans 8:23

JESUS did verify that His Disciples are His Elect and His "Called Out Ones" = His Church

John 15:19 - If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

There are many scriptures that verify that those whom God calls constitute His Elect = both OT and NT Saints

It is irrevocably verified by the LORD that His Elect are His 'ekklesia' = His Church - AND - His Bride

Matt 24:22 "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened."

 

[Rockson]

You owe me a Million Dollar$

Please begin making payments ASAP as our home needs some repair work - Thank You Brother Civic

You can PM me for my address to send the check(s) - Thanks Again for your Commitment

Stop being so greedy! You can take 500K and I'll take the other! I'm sure he won't mind writing out two checks.

 

[DavidTree]

Stop being so greedy! You can take 500K and I'll take the other! I'm sure he won't mind writing out two checks.

DEAL

Now please find out where our Brother @civic lives and we can make a 'Brotherly' surprise visit!

We can remind him of this passage of scripture from Hebrews ch13 -
Let brotherly love continue. 2Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.

 

[Grace ambassador]

Stop being so greedy! You can take 500K and I'll take the other! I'm sure he won't mind writing out two checks.

Wait, I thought this was to be a 50-50-50 split between us good loving brothers of @civic

 

[Rockson]

Wait, I thought this was to be a 50-50-50 split between us good loving brothers of @civic

I'm good with that. As I say I don't want to be greedy.

 

[Icabod]

The Rapture will spark a resurrection renaissance across the globe. Christians who died will live again—not only in a spiritual sense but physically as well. The bodies of believers buried in the ground will come out of the ground. They will be raised up.

Those bodies will be the same ones that went into the grave, though they will be transformed in profound ways. Assuming you and I die before the Rapture, our resurrected bodies on that day will be the same in essence—we will still be humans, and you will still be you. But the resurrection body that emerges will be superior to the old body you are inhabiting now.

These words apply not only to those who will be resurrected at the Rapture but also to those who are alive when Jesus returns. Everything that happens to a resurrected body will also happen to a body “caught up” to heaven in the Rapture.

Specifically, here are four things the Bible tells us will be true of our new bodies in that day.

Our Heavenly Body Will Be Incapable of Sickness or Death​

Throughout the history of time as we know it, there has been only one body not subject to corruption: the body of the Lord Jesus. Psalm 16:10 says prophetically of Him, “For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.” Jesus was buried, but on the third day He came out of the grave. His body incurred no corruption.

Unlike Jesus, when our earthly bodies die and are buried, they see corruption. But Paul told us that when we are raised up on the day of resurrection, we will be raised in incorruption. Our present bodies wear out and grow old, but our resurrection bodies will have no capacity for deterioration or decay. Your new body will be designed for eternity. It will not be subject to accident, disease, aging, or death. It will be pain-free and disease-free. It will never die; it will outlive the stars!

Dr. David Jeremiah

 

[Icabod]

Just curious. What does the hour of trial mean to you?

To me it would be the tribulation.

 

[DavidTree]

The Rapture will spark a resurrection renaissance across the globe. Christians who died will live again—not only in a spiritual sense but physically as well. The bodies of believers buried in the ground will come out of the ground. They will be raised up.

Those bodies will be the same ones that went into the grave, though they will be transformed in profound ways. Assuming you and I die before the Rapture, our resurrected bodies on that day will be the same in essence—we will still be humans, and you will still be you. But the resurrection body that emerges will be superior to the old body you are inhabiting now.

These words apply not only to those who will be resurrected at the Rapture but also to those who are alive when Jesus returns. Everything that happens to a resurrected body will also happen to a body “caught up” to heaven in the Rapture.

Specifically, here are four things the Bible tells us will be true of our new bodies in that day.

Our Heavenly Body Will Be Incapable of Sickness or Death​

Throughout the history of time as we know it, there has been only one body not subject to corruption: the body of the Lord Jesus. Psalm 16:10 says prophetically of Him, “For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.” Jesus was buried, but on the third day He came out of the grave. His body incurred no corruption.

Unlike Jesus, when our earthly bodies die and are buried, they see corruption. But Paul told us that when we are raised up on the day of resurrection, we will be raised in incorruption. Our present bodies wear out and grow old, but our resurrection bodies will have no capacity for deterioration or decay. Your new body will be designed for eternity. It will not be subject to accident, disease, aging, or death. It will be pain-free and disease-free. It will never die; it will outlive the stars!

Dr. David Jeremiah

"The Rapture will spark a resurrection renaissance across the globe."

The above statement is a FALSE statement and cannot be found in the Holy Scriptures of Truth

Dr. David Jeremiah is a FALSE prophet.