civic
Well-known member
Since Gods wrath was necessary to be poured out on Christ and there is still Gods wrath to come that falls upon all of the nonelect reprobates , Christs atonement was only for the elect whom Christ endured Gods wrath for on the cross- the limited atonement for the elect.. All others who are the non elect will suffer Gods wrath in the future. This view of the atonement was necessary for reformed theology to fit into their TULIP doctrine and make the atonement work with those other doctrines that were invented by man. Those who support PSA must also support the U/L in tulip. They are 2 sides of the same coin. Justice with the atonement came with the PSA doctrine. It was not taught prior to PSA when the doctrine came into being as we know it now from Hodges in the 1800's with his systematic theology. Just like tulip did not exist until after Calvin died and the doctrine was developed in Dort. PSA is a recent modern day heresy. Those who reject Pre Tribulationalism because its the newest eschatological view must also reject PSA since its the most recent view of the Atonement. See the double standards ?
Isaiah 53 - actually opposes PSA- the calvinist twists this in parenthesis
Who has believed what he has heard from us?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we ( GOD )should look at him,
and no beauty that we ( GOD )should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men,(GOD)
a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men(GOD) hide their (HIS ) faces
he was despised( BY GOD ), and we ( GOD ) esteemed him not.
4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we (GOD )esteemed him stricken,- (PSA teaches God)
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions; ( by man )
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; ( not born a sinner- no TD )
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, ( man led Him )
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he opened not his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; ( mans oppression, not God )
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
9 And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him; ( no wrath on Jesus )- the word can mean humble, contrite, oppress
he has put him to grief;
when his soul makes an offering for guilt,( reconciled to God, mans deliverance, redeemed, ransom, substitute, atonement)
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities. ( atonement- no wrath )
12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.
Isaiah 53 - actually opposes PSA- the calvinist twists this in parenthesis
Who has believed what he has heard from us?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we ( GOD )should look at him,
and no beauty that we ( GOD )should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men,(GOD)
a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men(GOD) hide their (HIS ) faces
he was despised( BY GOD ), and we ( GOD ) esteemed him not.
4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we (GOD )esteemed him stricken,- (PSA teaches God)
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions; ( by man )
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; ( not born a sinner- no TD )
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, ( man led Him )
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he opened not his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; ( mans oppression, not God )
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
9 And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him; ( no wrath on Jesus )- the word can mean humble, contrite, oppress
he has put him to grief;
when his soul makes an offering for guilt,( reconciled to God, mans deliverance, redeemed, ransom, substitute, atonement)
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities. ( atonement- no wrath )
12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.
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