Promise in Christ or in a Covenant

[Victoria]

There are two ways to buy a house: make a promise to pay in the future, or pay it all up front.

If you make a promise to pay, the provision is always future, and there is always a possibility that either party can breech the contract. Paying up front makes a promise to pay needless, but requires a huge one time payment.

Salvation is a purchase of God. He redeems lost sinners while building an eternal house. Since the world began, God has been building the house of Israel for an eternal inheritance on the earth. He did not provide the inheritance up front, so he gave Israel a promise to pay, a covenant of promise.

Israel’s covenants of promise were God’s obligations to provide salvation, blessing, and earthly inheritance in the future.

To make the promise sure, covenants were declared. How does Israel know the promise is sure? The covenant is made in blood and guaranteed with death of the buyer. This is called a surety or mortgage (a death promise).

God made a promise to pay to Israel, a divine mortgage, to be fulfilled in his kingdom come to the earth. The blood of Christ was the down payment and surety of the future provision for that nation.

The Fulfillment of God’s Mortgage

Israel was blessed with these covenants of promise. He made no such covenants of promise with any other nation. While God’s complete provision is extended to the future, the promise ensures it will be Israel that will inherit the earth.

When the terms of the covenants of promise are fulfilled, then there is no longer any need for the covenants. They are finished. The mortgage can be ripped up, because the house is paid for.

However, Israel’s covenants of promise have not yet been fulfilled. They have not yet received their salvation, worldwide blessing, earthly inheritance, or many other promises given to them through their covenants of promise (Heb 8:11; 13:14; Rom 11:26-27).

This is why God’s covenants are critical for the future earthly inheritance of Israel. Without them, what hope do they have that God will make final payment?

God’s Present Payment Plan

Today, we are not partakers of God’s promises in covenants to receive future salvation and blessing. God has another payment plan that has bought the house of God, which is the church, the body of Christ (1 Tim 3:15).

God has already promised an earthly habitation to Israel through a covenant of future promise. The new creature abides in heavenly places, and we can be placed into this household today if payment is provided in full immediately.

This transaction with the church of God is described through the revelation of the mystery of Christ, which is without Israel and without covenants. Instead of striking a covenant with the church for future provision, God has declared this purchase paid in full through the blood of Christ.

Just like paying for a house up front, this required a huge lump sum payment in the beginning. The cross is where we find this sufficient payment for all.

No More Waiting

Before the revelation of the mystery of Christ, the only way to receive any hope of salvation or blessing from God was through Israel’s covenants of promise. Israel’s covenants of promise are still waiting future provision.

But now the blood of Christ is offered for direct entry into the household of God (Eph 2:13).

Since Christ has already made the full payment through his blood, and there are no other obligations to the church, God can provide everything to us now without the need for a covenant.

Whereas Israel’s covenant promises them a complete package when the kingdom comes, we are complete in Christ now (Col 2:10). Whereas Israel is still waiting for their Day of Atonement where the blood of Christ is applied to their nation, we have “now received the atonement” (Rom 5:11).

There is no more waiting for the fulfillment of Israel’s covenants of promise to receive salvation. What they have been promised in payment, we now possess. Now is the day of salvation by the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery!

Christ has done it all, it is all paid for up front the moment we believe (Eph 1:13).

Christ vs. Covenant

How very different trusting the finished payment of Christ is from trusting a future promise of provision. Christ and a covenant are different. Christ is a person who made a payment. A covenant is a promise that has not yet been provided. If the promise has been delivered, rip up the mortgage!

If a house is paid for up front, there is no covenant or promise that is needed, there only need be the person rich enough to pay for it.

We have that person in the Lord Jesus Christ, and the riches are unsearchable (Eph 3:8)!

Our message today is not one of entering into contract with God, or partaking of God’s promise in a covenant made with Israel. We preach that all men can partake of God’s promise in Christ by the mystery gospel (Eph 3:6).

While no believer would deny God’s faithfulness to keep his promises to Israel, and it was because of those promises that Christ came, especially now that we know the mystery of God’s will in Christ, but certainly possessing a thing is much better than a future promise of a thing.

According to the mystery of Christ, the body of Christ now preaches and possesses salvation, whereas Israel is still waiting the fulfillment of their covenants of promise made for the earth.

God will keep the covenants for Israel through Christ, but beware of anyone who would take your paid for house in heavenly places and put it back under a mortgage! They are robbing you of the unsearchable riches of Christ!


By: Justin Johnson

Promise in Christ or in a Covenant

 

[armylngst]

There are two ways to buy a house: make a promise to pay in the future, or pay it all up front.

If you make a promise to pay, the provision is always future, and there is always a possibility that either party can breech the contract. Paying up front makes a promise to pay needless, but requires a huge one time payment.

Salvation is a purchase of God. He redeems lost sinners while building an eternal house. Since the world began, God has been building the house of Israel for an eternal inheritance on the earth. He did not provide the inheritance up front, so he gave Israel a promise to pay, a covenant of promise.

Israel’s covenants of promise were God’s obligations to provide salvation, blessing, and earthly inheritance in the future.

To make the promise sure, covenants were declared. How does Israel know the promise is sure? The covenant is made in blood and guaranteed with death of the buyer. This is called a surety or mortgage (a death promise).

God made a promise to pay to Israel, a divine mortgage, to be fulfilled in his kingdom come to the earth. The blood of Christ was the down payment and surety of the future provision for that nation.

The Fulfillment of God’s Mortgage

Israel was blessed with these covenants of promise. He made no such covenants of promise with any other nation. While God’s complete provision is extended to the future, the promise ensures it will be Israel that will inherit the earth.

When the terms of the covenants of promise are fulfilled, then there is no longer any need for the covenants. They are finished. The mortgage can be ripped up, because the house is paid for.

However, Israel’s covenants of promise have not yet been fulfilled. They have not yet received their salvation, worldwide blessing, earthly inheritance, or many other promises given to them through their covenants of promise (Heb 8:11; 13:14; Rom 11:26-27).

This is why God’s covenants are critical for the future earthly inheritance of Israel. Without them, what hope do they have that God will make final payment?

God’s Present Payment Plan

Today, we are not partakers of God’s promises in covenants to receive future salvation and blessing. God has another payment plan that has bought the house of God, which is the church, the body of Christ (1 Tim 3:15).

God has already promised an earthly habitation to Israel through a covenant of future promise. The new creature abides in heavenly places, and we can be placed into this household today if payment is provided in full immediately.

This transaction with the church of God is described through the revelation of the mystery of Christ, which is without Israel and without covenants. Instead of striking a covenant with the church for future provision, God has declared this purchase paid in full through the blood of Christ.

Just like paying for a house up front, this required a huge lump sum payment in the beginning. The cross is where we find this sufficient payment for all.

No More Waiting

Before the revelation of the mystery of Christ, the only way to receive any hope of salvation or blessing from God was through Israel’s covenants of promise. Israel’s covenants of promise are still waiting future provision.

But now the blood of Christ is offered for direct entry into the household of God (Eph 2:13).

Since Christ has already made the full payment through his blood, and there are no other obligations to the church, God can provide everything to us now without the need for a covenant.

Whereas Israel’s covenant promises them a complete package when the kingdom comes, we are complete in Christ now (Col 2:10). Whereas Israel is still waiting for their Day of Atonement where the blood of Christ is applied to their nation, we have “now received the atonement” (Rom 5:11).

There is no more waiting for the fulfillment of Israel’s covenants of promise to receive salvation. What they have been promised in payment, we now possess. Now is the day of salvation by the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery!

Christ has done it all, it is all paid for up front the moment we believe (Eph 1:13).

Christ vs. Covenant

How very different trusting the finished payment of Christ is from trusting a future promise of provision. Christ and a covenant are different. Christ is a person who made a payment. A covenant is a promise that has not yet been provided. If the promise has been delivered, rip up the mortgage!

If a house is paid for up front, there is no covenant or promise that is needed, there only need be the person rich enough to pay for it.

We have that person in the Lord Jesus Christ, and the riches are unsearchable (Eph 3:8)!

Our message today is not one of entering into contract with God, or partaking of God’s promise in a covenant made with Israel. We preach that all men can partake of God’s promise in Christ by the mystery gospel (Eph 3:6).

While no believer would deny God’s faithfulness to keep his promises to Israel, and it was because of those promises that Christ came, especially now that we know the mystery of God’s will in Christ, but certainly possessing a thing is much better than a future promise of a thing.

According to the mystery of Christ, the body of Christ now preaches and possesses salvation, whereas Israel is still waiting the fulfillment of their covenants of promise made for the earth.

God will keep the covenants for Israel through Christ, but beware of anyone who would take your paid for house in heavenly places and put it back under a mortgage! They are robbing you of the unsearchable riches of Christ!


By: Justin Johnson

Promise in Christ or in a Covenant

The covenants and promises made with Abraham were two-fold. Physical promises and spiritual blessings. Israel receives both the physical promises (land promise for instance), and the spiritual blessings of Abraham's faith for the elect of Israel who believe in their Messiah by faith, and the Gentiles receive the spiritual blessings promised to Abraham by his faith, which God said, by his faith and his seed, the nations of the world would be blessed.

Jesus is the Messiah King of Israel, but is not the Messiah King of the Gentiles. He is the Savior of the Gentiles, because of His love for the world, by His mercy, as Paul says in Romans.

These types of posts above (yours), are a comfort and blessing next to some of the really crazy posts out there that seek to deny anything for Israel, even for God's elect in Israel. Israel has it rough in God's judgment, as do His children within Israel. He has not left them without hope or support, but it is still rough. The church should be their support, not their detractor. (I speak of the elect of Israel.)

 

[Victoria]

The covenants and promises made with Abraham were two-fold. Physical promises and spiritual blessings. Israel receives both the physical promises (land promise for instance), and the spiritual blessings of Abraham's faith for the elect of Israel who believe in their Messiah by faith, and the Gentiles receive the spiritual blessings promised to Abraham by his faith, which God said, by his faith and his seed, the nations of the world would be blessed.

Jesus is the Messiah King of Israel, but is not the Messiah King of the Gentiles. He is the Savior of the Gentiles, because of His love for the world, by His mercy, as Paul says in Romans.

These types of posts above (yours), are a comfort and blessing next to some of the really crazy posts out there that seek to deny anything for Israel, even for God's elect in Israel. Israel has it rough in God's judgment, as do His children within Israel. He has not left them without hope or support, but it is still rough. The church should be their support, not their detractor. (I speak of the elect of Israel.)

It's such a tremendous comfort, & blessing for all to see replies like yours. Well said.
Amen! And thank you

 

[praise_yeshua]

The covenants and promises made with Abraham were two-fold. Physical promises and spiritual blessings. Israel receives both the physical promises (land promise for instance), and the spiritual blessings of Abraham's faith for the elect of Israel who believe in their Messiah by faith, and the Gentiles receive the spiritual blessings promised to Abraham by his faith, which God said, by his faith and his seed, the nations of the world would be blessed.

Jesus is the Messiah King of Israel, but is not the Messiah King of the Gentiles. He is the Savior of the Gentiles, because of His love for the world, by His mercy, as Paul says in Romans.

These types of posts above (yours), are a comfort and blessing next to some of the really crazy posts out there that seek to deny anything for Israel, even for God's elect in Israel. Israel has it rough in God's judgment, as do His children within Israel. He has not left them without hope or support, but it is still rough. The church should be their support, not their detractor. (I speak of the elect of Israel.)

The title "King of Kings" comes out of the Persian empire. There is no reference at all to a "King of Kings" to Israel. It doesn't exist. Take my challenge and prove that does.

Israel after the flesh has a treasure just like all other nation on this earth. There is no difference. Their treasure will be Jesus Christ or they will suffer everlasting damnation. There is no promises for Israel apart from Christ. ZERO.

You do realize that a Moabite female is in the line of the mothers of Mary. Right?

These promises you're claiming exclusively for Israel have no heir of promise without Jesus Christ. ZERO. David wasn't it. Solomon wasn't it. The only Eternal heir of Abraham is Jesus Christ. There are no others.

 

[armylngst]

The title "King of Kings" comes out of the Persian empire. There is no reference at all to a "King of Kings" to Israel. It doesn't exist. Take my challenge and prove that does.

Jesus is the Messiah of Israel. He is not the Messiah of the Gentiles. God continued His judging of Israel by having Pilate include "King of the Jews" on Jesus' cross. It stood as an indictment against the Jews, that they had their King crucified. Revelation 19:16 "16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." Jesus is the Messiah (King) of the Jews, while the Savior of the Gentiles/world. Hence the Davidic Covenant. Jesus is king how? The line/seed of David. That is a Jewish/Hebrew/Israelite line of royalty.

Israel after the flesh has a treasure just like all other nation on this earth. There is no difference. Their treasure will be Jesus Christ or they will suffer everlasting damnation. There is no promises for Israel apart from Christ. ZERO.

Yes, He is there Messiah. There is no argument there. He is not, however, the Messiah of the world. You will not find that in scripture. The Savior, yes, Messiah, no.

You do realize that a Moabite female is in the line of the mothers of Mary. Right?

You may not want to bring it up, because then I would have to bring up the prostitute that is also in the same line.

These promises you're claiming exclusively for Israel have no heir of promise without Jesus Christ. ZERO. David wasn't it. Solomon wasn't it. The only Eternal heir of Abraham is Jesus Christ. There are no others.

The Abrahamic Covenant did not cease because the covenant was made with Abraham. The thing with covenants, is when you make the covenant with someone, they are alive when they receive it. God is going to fulfill the Abrahamic covenant with Abraham, and that will be in the Millennial Kingdom, and Abraham will be there. (First resurrection...)

 

[praise_yeshua]

He is not the Messiah of the Gentiles.

Jesus is God. He has always been God. This a lie straight out of the pits of hell. Sooner or later people like yourself always say such stupid things as you said above.

There is no prophecy of Christ being King of Kings to be found in the OT. Nor in any of the manuscripts you prefer. It doesn't exist. In fact, when your preferred sinners in the line of mankind desired to have a "king" over them, God said THEY had rejected HIM from reigning over THEM.

1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Yes, He is there Messiah. There is no argument there. He is not, however, the Messiah of the world. You will not find that in scripture. The Savior, yes, Messiah, no.

You don't really understand the title of Messiah. Messiah ben Joseph is a title embraced among the faithful. The heirs of Joseph brought the bones of Joseph out of Egypt.

You may not want to bring it up, because then I would have to bring up the prostitute that is also in the same line.

What Tamar? Sure. Bring her up. Lets talk about her and the sin of Judah.

The Abrahamic Covenant did not cease because the covenant was made with Abraham. The thing with covenants, is when you make the covenant with someone, they are alive when they receive it. God is going to fulfill the Abrahamic covenant with Abraham, and that will be in the Millennial Kingdom, and Abraham will be there. (First resurrection...)

The heir of Abraham Jesus Christ is greater than Abraham. Abraham looked for Messiah Ben Joseph.

I know this subject much better than you do. I will not exalt sinners above the heir of Abraham. Jesus Christ. Obviously, you don't mind doing the opposite. What does that say about you?

 

[armylngst]

Jesus is God. He has always been God. This a lie straight out of the pits of hell. Sooner or later people like yourself always say such stupid things as you said above.

God is not Messiah. Jesus is the Messiah of the Jews. He is the Savior of the Gentiles. He is Messiah (anointed one/king) of the Jews because of the promise God made to king David, through Solomon. The kingdom was promised to Israel, but that kingdom, as seen in Daniel 2, will be over the whole world.

There is no prophecy of Christ being King of Kings to be found in the OT. Nor in any of the manuscripts you prefer. It doesn't exist. In fact, when your preferred sinners in the line of mankind desired to have a "king" over them, God said THEY had rejected HIM from reigning over THEM.

So, there is no Messianic prophecy? Got it.

1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Yes, Israel was a Theocracy. However, I don't see anything here that explicitly states that there is no Jesus.

You don't really understand the title of Messiah. Messiah ben Joseph is a title embraced among the faithful. The heirs of Joseph brought the bones of Joseph out of Egypt.

I know you probably don't like Wikipedia but:
"In Jewish eschatology, the Messiah is a future Jewish king from the Davidic line, who is expected to be anointed with holy anointing oil and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age and world to come.[1][2][8] The Messiah is often referred to as "King Messiah" (Hebrew: מלך משיח, romanized: melekh mashiach, Jewish Babylonian Aramaic: מַלכָא (הוּא) מְשִיחָא, romanized: malkā (hu) mšiḥā[9]).[10]" -- Flusser, David. "Second Temple Period". Messiah. Encyclopaedia Judaica 2008 The Gale Group. Retrieved 2 December 2012.

What Tamar? Sure. Bring her up. Lets talk about her and the sin of Judah.

Yes, in direct lineage to Jesus. I just bring it up because certain people believe that all Gentiles are going to hell.

The heir of Abraham Jesus Christ is greater than Abraham. Abraham looked for Messiah Ben Joseph.

So, Abraham's faith was not founded in God and His promises, but in Messiah Ben Joseph. Hmm... interesting concept. So God felt no competition with this Messiah Ben Joseph, and gladly yielded His glory? I'm pretty sure that Paul said that Abraham was looking for Jesus, considering God had promised Abraham that through His seed (which Paul/Hebrews says is Jesus) all the nations of the world would be blessed. And it was Paul who said that God gave the gospel to Abraham when God said this.

I know this subject much better than you do. I will not exalt sinners above the heir of Abraham. Jesus Christ. Obviously, you don't mind doing the opposite. What does that say about you?

Who is exalting sinners above Messiah Ben Joseph? Point them out so that I can say something about it. I mean, you just said Abraham looked for Messiah Ben Joseph.

 

[praise_yeshua]

God is not Messiah. Jesus is the Messiah of the Jews. He is the Savior of the Gentiles. He is Messiah (anointed one/king) of the Jews because of the promise God made to king David, through Solomon. The kingdom was promised to Israel, but that kingdom, as seen in Daniel 2, will be over the whole world.

AH. So you deny the Deity of Jesus Christ. At least we've got that "out in the open".....

So, there is no Messianic prophecy? Got it.

Never said otherwise. I even mentioned it. Messiah ben Joseph. What nonsense is this from you? I challenged you to show forth the title of "King of Kings" in the OT. You can't. It doesn't exist. You know it doesn't. You couldn't find it. No one can help you find it. So you resort to this nonsense.

If you're going to deny the Deity of Christ then what use it to argue with you?

Yes, Israel was a Theocracy. However, I don't see anything here that explicitly states that there is no Jesus.

I know you probably don't like Wikipedia but:
"In Jewish eschatology, the Messiah is a future Jewish king from the Davidic line, who is expected to be anointed with holy anointing oil and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age and world to come.[1][2][8] The Messiah is often referred to as "King Messiah" (Hebrew: מלך משיח, romanized: melekh mashiach, Jewish Babylonian Aramaic: מַלכָא (הוּא) מְשִיחָא, romanized: malkā (hu) mšiḥā[9]).[10]" -- Flusser, David. "Second Temple Period". Messiah. Encyclopaedia Judaica 2008 The Gale Group. Retrieved 2 December 2012.

I know you probably like Wikipedia. Maybe you don't know what that about 80 plus percent of Wikipedia is actively edited/approved by one man. One man only. Research it yourself.

I know about this than your editor of choice.

Maybe go get this "David Flusser" and he can make your argument for you. I don't need him.

Yes, in direct lineage to Jesus. I just bring it up because certain people believe that all Gentiles are going to hell.

Sure they do and you're right there with them teaching what you're teaching. You're preaching exactly what they preach. Sure. You might reference Jesus every now and then but you're not showing forth your allegiance to Jesus Christ.

Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

You'll either love Him with all your heart or you're "scattering to the wind".

So, Abraham's faith was not founded in God and His promises, but in Messiah Ben Joseph. Hmm... interesting concept. So God felt no competition with this Messiah Ben Joseph, and gladly yielded His glory? I'm pretty sure that Paul said that Abraham was looking for Jesus, considering God had promised Abraham that through His seed (which Paul/Hebrews says is Jesus) all the nations of the world would be blessed. And it was Paul who said that God gave the gospel to Abraham when God said this.

Which "grandson" was faithful to Abraham? Joseph or Judah? If only David Flusser were alive.....

Who is exalting sinners above Messiah Ben Joseph? Point them out so that I can say something about it. I mean, you just said Abraham looked for Messiah Ben Joseph.

Judah. David. Solomon.

Remember them?

 

[armylngst]

AH. So you deny the Deity of Jesus Christ. At least we've got that "out in the open".....



Never said otherwise. I even mentioned it. Messiah ben Joseph. What nonsense is this from you? I challenged you to show forth the title of "King of Kings" in the OT. You can't. It doesn't exist. You know it doesn't. You couldn't find it. No one can help you find it. So you resort to this nonsense.

If you're going to deny the Deity of Christ then what use it to argue with you?

Yes, Israel was a Theocracy. However, I don't see anything here that explicitly states that there is no Jesus.



I know you probably like Wikipedia. Maybe you don't know what that about 80 plus percent of Wikipedia is actively edited/approved by one man. One man only. Research it yourself.

I know about this than your editor of choice.

Maybe go get this "David Flusser" and he can make your argument for you. I don't need him.



Sure they do and you're right there with them teaching what you're teaching. You're preaching exactly what they preach. Sure. You might reference Jesus every now and then but you're not showing forth your allegiance to Jesus Christ.

Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

You'll either love Him with all your heart or you're "scattering to the wind".



Which "grandson" was faithful to Abraham? Joseph or Judah? If only David Flusser were alive.....



Judah. David. Solomon.

Remember them?

Ah, the representative of Christ who can only attack? I would do best to leave that Christ with you and seek God's Christ. There I will find Him, seated at the right hand of the Father, the very image of the Father.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Ah, the representative of Christ who can only attack? I would do best to leave that Christ with you and seek God's Christ. There I will find Him, seated at the right hand of the Father, the very image of the Father.

Attack? Jesus overthrew your money charger tables. Is that the Christ you're talking about?

Surely you can handle a few words against your silly position that denies the Deity of Christ???

So where did this title "King of Kings" come from?

1. If Jesus Christ is "King of Kings" (and He is) then why didn't your prophets declare it?
2. Melchizedek was King. Why are you assuming this title came from any Hebrew?
3. If He is King of Kings, then he owes NOTHING to these "kings" that have many many "brides" like Mormons do. So tell me how you proper establish the necessity of His kingdom?