Prima Scriptura... what is next?

[praise_yeshua]

I've been "Prima Scriptura" for many years but I'm different than most who hold to "Prima Scriptura".

Prima Scriptura is the teaching that revelation first begins with the Scriptures. To which, I agree.

However......

What is next is very important. Most will appeal to "Early Church teachings" but I do NOT take this approach. I'm going to list a couple things that come next. Not necessarily in rank.

b.... = Holy Spirit (which is dangerous to some)
c.... = Nature
d.... = sin

We all must be led of the Spirit of God. If we are led of the Spirit of God, then we are the sons of God. Scripture only get us so far in revelation. We must know the voice of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Nature teaches. I know this because the Scriptures say just that. Nature is "realty". Nature teaches us.

Sin.... I know people are going to disagree with me but hear me out...... I'm starting a conversation. There is a natural order to the PROGRESSION of sin. In the book of proverbs sin is likened to "fire" and how "fire spreads".

When we do not learn from God and when do not learn from Nature, there is ONE thing left to teach us.... That is..... "sin" teaches us.

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

The prodigal son learned what he had lost when he was down in the "pig pen"......

Sin teaches. Notice I didn't say sin is necessary. I said sin teaches. Freedom to act contrary to God can result in sin.

I said the above to start a conversation. Feel free to join in and tell me where I'm wrong.....

Thanks

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

I've been "Prima Scriptura" for many years but I'm different than most who hold to "Prima Scriptura".

Prima Scriptura is the teaching that revelation first begins with the Scriptures. To which, I agree.

However......

What is next is very important. Most will appeal to "Early Church teachings" but I do NOT take this approach. I'm going to list a couple things that come next. Not necessarily in rank.

b.... = Holy Spirit (which is dangerous to some)
c.... = Nature
d.... = sin

We all must be led of the Spirit of God. If we are led of the Spirit of God, then we are the sons of God. Scripture only get us so far in revelation. We must know the voice of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Nature teaches. I know this because the Scriptures say just that. Nature is "realty". Nature teaches us.

Sin.... I know people are going to disagree with me but hear me out...... I'm starting a conversation. There is a natural order to the PROGRESSION of sin. In the book of proverbs sin is likened to "fire" and how "fire spreads".

When we do not learn from God and when do not learn from Nature, there is ONE thing left to teach us.... That is..... "sin" teaches us.

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

The prodigal son learned what he had lost when he was down in the "pig pen"......

Sin teaches. Notice I didn't say sin is necessary. I said sin teaches. Freedom to act contrary to God can result in sin.

I said the above to start a conversation. Feel free to join in and tell me where I'm wrong.....

Thanks

Sin dont teach us squat . Rather GOD makes us realize through our sufferings what sin has led us too , THE HOG PEN .
SIN , you must be kidding my friend . MANY love sin and the wicked sure seem to prosper in this world
SIN dont teach us anything . GOD DOES .
But even when many suffer due to sin , EVEN THEN they remain in the HOG PEN and rather choose to blame
GOD for their troubles . NO sir . NO sir . SIN dont teach us
GOD teaches us . SIN destroys us and will lead only to death .
You are right in some things my friend . EVIL can only beget evil . Error can only beget more error .
Tis the mercy and chastenings of GOD that can lead one to sorrow to repentance . I say we GIVE GOD THE GLORY
and not rather SIN . Sin teaches us nothing . GOD SHOWS US that sin is deadly and destructive

 

[praise_yeshua]

Sin dont teach us squat . Rather GOD makes us realize through our sufferings what sin has led us too , THE HOG PEN .

Resting the Scriptures equals what?

I quoted them.....

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Give your analysis.

SIN , you must be kidding my friend . MANY love sin and the wicked sure seem to prosper in this world

I'm not your friend. Those that claim to be your "friends" are often your enemies. You see just that in how you're responding to this. Instead of disagreeing with me and giving your analysis of the Scriptures, you're attacking me. That is fine with me. I expected it. Please continue. However, provide your analysis of the Scriptures I quoted.

SIN dont teach us anything . GOD DOES .

The absence of God certainly does teach us. I bet you've felt the absence of God in your life. Why pretend you haven't.

But even when many suffer due to sin , EVEN THEN they remain in the HOG PEN and rather choose to blame
GOD for their troubles . NO sir . NO sir . SIN dont teach us

It certainly does. It has taught you what it means to be absent God. What did you trip the hog pen remind you of? Maybe His presence? Maybe the good things of God you traded for your sin?

GOD teaches us . SIN destroys us and will lead only to death .

Then why aren't you dead? Why hasn't God judged your worthy of death right now?

I thank God that He has not judged me according to my sin or rewarded me according to mine inquites.

You are right in some things my friend . EVIL can only beget evil . Error can only beget more error .
Tis the mercy and chastenings of GOD that can lead one to sorrow to repentance . I say we GIVE GOD THE GLORY
and not rather SIN . Sin teaches us nothing . GOD SHOWS US that sin is deadly and destructive

I didn't give "sin glory".... Bad things teach us what Good things are. There is a clear contrast between such things. There is no glory in sin but punishment certainly works.......

Did you punish your children for disobeying you? Did they learn from the experience?

I hope you realize that God could have chosen anything in this life. He could have designed this life however He desired. God could have made us without the capacity to sin. In fact, we have been promised to be free from sin due to His glorious power.

However, we have no such privilege yet. This flesh must be changed.

 

[Johann]

Resting the Scriptures equals what?

I quoted them.....

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Give your analysis.



I'm not your friend. Those that claim to be your "friends" are often your enemies. You see just that in how you're responding to this. Instead of disagreeing with me and giving your analysis of the Scriptures, you're attacking me. That is fine with me. I expected it. Please continue. However, provide your analysis of the Scriptures I quoted.



The absence of God certainly does teach us. I bet you've felt the absence of God in your life. Why pretend you haven't.



It certainly does. It has taught you what it means to be absent God. What did you trip the hog pen remind you of? Maybe His presence? Maybe the good things of God you traded for your sin?



Then why aren't you dead? Why hasn't God judged your worthy of death right now?

I thank God that He has not judged me according to my sin or rewarded me according to mine inquites.



I didn't give "sin glory".... Bad things teach us what Good things are. There is a clear contrast between such things. There is no glory in sin but punishment certainly works.......

Did you punish your children for disobeying you? Did they learn from the experience?

I hope you realize that God could have chosen anything in this life. He could have designed this life however He desired. God could have made us without the capacity to sin. In fact, we have been promised to be free from sin due to His glorious power.

However, we have no such privilege yet. This flesh must be changed.

--and crucified, we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin.

Romans 6:11—"Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." The Greek verb λογίζεσθε (logizesthe, "reckon") is in the present middle imperative, which means an ongoing, deliberate, and personal action of considering oneself dead to sin but alive to God. This reckoning is not merely theoretical but is to be lived out practically in daily life, reflecting the believer’s new identity in Christ.

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

--and crucified, we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin.

Romans 6:11—"Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." The Greek verb λογίζεσθε (logizesthe, "reckon") is in the present middle imperative, which means an ongoing, deliberate, and personal action of considering oneself dead to sin but alive to God. This reckoning is not merely theoretical but is to be lived out practically in daily life, reflecting the believer’s new identity in Christ.

J.

I do reckon myself alive to God. I have a relationship with Him but that hasn't always been true in my life.

I believe Job faced this in his own life. It is one thing to say all the right things and it is an entirely different to actually mean them with every "fiber" of our being.

It is a goal. It is a reckoning. It is a target to strive toward. I want to say that God has more of me now than He ever has in my life but I don't know if that is true or not. I want to say it but I don't know if God would agree. I consider that now where I haven't entirely in the past. It has taken me time to get where I'm at. Experience and living WITH God makes you more like God. I agree with that but I don't believe that many people actually recognize what that is exactly. It is more than external means will ever display fully to others. It is an intimacy that only exists between the Spirit of God and the individual.

This IS one the reasons why the Scriptures are not enough. Many people immerse themselves in knowing the Scriptures and ignore the Spirit of God in the relationship.

Knowing this difference is difficult at times. God speaks in a very small voice. Many voices compete with His voice.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Scriptures themselves details the fact they are not enough.....

Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Joh 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

 

[Johann]

Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Joh 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

I think you missed the context of this verse-

Greek Parsing Transliteration Meaning
ἐραυνᾶτε V-PAI-2P eraunate You search/diligently study
τὰς γραφὰς N-Acc-Pl-F tas graphas The Scriptures
ὅτι Conj hoti Because/that
ὑμεῖς PPro-Nom-2P hymeis You (emphatic)
δοκεῖτε V-PAI-2P dokeite You think/suppose
ἐν Prep en In
αὐταῖς PPro-Dat-Pl-F autais Them (the Scriptures)
ζωὴν N-Acc-Sg-F zoēn Life
αἰώνιον Adj-Acc-Sg-F aiōnion Eternal
ἔχειν V-PAN echein To have/possess
καὶ Conj kai And
ἐκεῖναί DPro-Nom-Pl-F ekeinai They (those Scriptures)
εἰσιν V-PAI-3P eisin Are
αἱ Art-Nom-Pl-F hai The ones who
μαρτυροῦσαι V-PAP-Nom-Pl-F martyrousai Bearing witness/testifying
περὶ Prep peri About/concerning
ἐμοῦ PPro-Gen-1S emou Me
Translation (Word-for-Word)
"You search the Scriptures, because you suppose that in them you have eternal life; and they are the ones bearing witness concerning Me."

Verse 40: καὶ οὐ θέλετε ἐλθεῖν πρός με ἵνα ζωὴν ἔχητε
Greek Parsing Transliteration Meaning
καὶ Conj kai And/yet
οὐ Part-Neg ou Not
θέλετε V-PAI-2P thelete You want/will/desire
ἐλθεῖν V-2AAN elthein To come
πρός Prep pros To/toward
με PPro-Acc-1S me Me
ἵνα Conj hina So that/in order that
ζωὴν N-Acc-Sg-F zoēn Life
ἔχητε V-PAS-2P echēte You may have
Translation (Word-for-Word)
"And yet you do not want to come to Me so that you may have life."

Cross-References


Deut. 6:6-9 – The command to diligently study and teach the Law.

Psa. 1:2 – The righteous meditate on God's law day and night.

Rom. 2:17-20 – The Jews rely on the Law and boast in it but fail to understand its purpose.

Luke 24:27, 44-45 – Jesus explains how the Scriptures testify about Him.

Acts 17:11 – The Bereans searched the Scriptures to verify Paul's claims.

For "Because you think that in them you have eternal life" (John 5:39)

Matt. 19:16-17 – The rich young ruler believes keeping commandments grants eternal life.

John 3:16 – Eternal life comes through belief in Jesus, not mere knowledge of Scripture.

Gal. 3:21-22 – The Law cannot grant life, but it leads to Christ.

For "And they are the ones bearing witness about Me" (John 5:39)

Gen. 3:15 – The first prophecy about Christ.

Deut. 18:15 – Moses speaks of a future prophet like himself.

Isa. 53 – The suffering servant points to Jesus.

Mic. 5:2 – The Messiah’s birthplace is foretold.

Luke 24:27 – Jesus explains how the Law and Prophets speak of Him.

Acts 3:22-24 – Peter confirms that Moses and the prophets spoke of Jesus.

For "Yet you refuse to come to Me that you may have life" (John 5:40)

John 1:11 – He came to His own, but they did not receive Him.

John 3:19-20 – People reject the light because they love darkness.

Luke 16:31 – Even if one rises from the dead, they will not believe.

Heb. 4:2 – The Word was of no benefit because it was not combined with faith.

Ye search (eraunāte). Proper spelling as the papyri show rather than ereunāte, the old form (from ereuna, search) as in Jhn_7:52. The form here can be either present active indicative second person plural or the present active imperative second person plural. Only the context can decide. Either makes sense here, but the reason given “because ye think” (hoti humeis dokeite, clearly indicative), supports the indicative rather than the imperative. Besides, Jesus is arguing on the basis of their use of “the Scriptures” (tas graphas). The plural with the article refers to the well-known collection in the Old Testament (Mat_21:42; Luk_24:27). Elsewhere in John the singular refers to a particular passage (Jhn_2:22; Jhn_7:38; Jhn_10:35).

In them ye have eternal life (en autais zōēn aiōnion echein). Indirect assertion after dokeite without “ye” expressed either as nominative (humeis) or accusative (humas). Bernard holds that in John dokeō always indicates a mistaken opinion (Jhn_5:45; Jhn_11:13, Jhn_11:31; Jhn_13:29; Jhn_16:20; Jhn_20:15). Certainly the rabbis did make a mechanical use of the letter of Scripture as a means of salvation.
These are they (ekeinai eisin hai). The true value of the Scriptures is in their witness to Christ (of me, peri emou). Luke (Luk_24:27, Luk_24:45) gives this same claim of Jesus, and yet some critics fail to find the Messiah in the Old Testament. But Jesus did.

Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you suppose that in them you have eternal life. It is these that testify about Me.
Joh 5:40 Yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life!
Joh 5:41 I do not accept glory from men.
Joh 5:42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves.
Joh 5:43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me. But if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
Joh 5:44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that comes from God alone?
Joh 5:45 “Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father. The one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have put your hope.
Joh 5:46 For if you were believing Moses, you would believe Me—because he wrote about Me.
Joh 5:47 But since you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I think you missed the context of this verse-

Greek Parsing Transliteration Meaning
ἐραυνᾶτε V-PAI-2P eraunate You search/diligently study
τὰς γραφὰς N-Acc-Pl-F tas graphas The Scriptures
ὅτι Conj hoti Because/that
ὑμεῖς PPro-Nom-2P hymeis You (emphatic)
δοκεῖτε V-PAI-2P dokeite You think/suppose
ἐν Prep en In
αὐταῖς PPro-Dat-Pl-F autais Them (the Scriptures)
ζωὴν N-Acc-Sg-F zoēn Life
αἰώνιον Adj-Acc-Sg-F aiōnion Eternal
ἔχειν V-PAN echein To have/possess
καὶ Conj kai And
ἐκεῖναί DPro-Nom-Pl-F ekeinai They (those Scriptures)
εἰσιν V-PAI-3P eisin Are
αἱ Art-Nom-Pl-F hai The ones who
μαρτυροῦσαι V-PAP-Nom-Pl-F martyrousai Bearing witness/testifying
περὶ Prep peri About/concerning
ἐμοῦ PPro-Gen-1S emou Me
Translation (Word-for-Word)
"You search the Scriptures, because you suppose that in them you have eternal life; and they are the ones bearing witness concerning Me."

Verse 40: καὶ οὐ θέλετε ἐλθεῖν πρός με ἵνα ζωὴν ἔχητε
Greek Parsing Transliteration Meaning
καὶ Conj kai And/yet
οὐ Part-Neg ou Not
θέλετε V-PAI-2P thelete You want/will/desire
ἐλθεῖν V-2AAN elthein To come
πρός Prep pros To/toward
με PPro-Acc-1S me Me
ἵνα Conj hina So that/in order that
ζωὴν N-Acc-Sg-F zoēn Life
ἔχητε V-PAS-2P echēte You may have
Translation (Word-for-Word)
"And yet you do not want to come to Me so that you may have life."

Cross-References


Deut. 6:6-9 – The command to diligently study and teach the Law.

Psa. 1:2 – The righteous meditate on God's law day and night.

Rom. 2:17-20 – The Jews rely on the Law and boast in it but fail to understand its purpose.

Luke 24:27, 44-45 – Jesus explains how the Scriptures testify about Him.

Acts 17:11 – The Bereans searched the Scriptures to verify Paul's claims.

For "Because you think that in them you have eternal life" (John 5:39)

Matt. 19:16-17 – The rich young ruler believes keeping commandments grants eternal life.

John 3:16 – Eternal life comes through belief in Jesus, not mere knowledge of Scripture.

Gal. 3:21-22 – The Law cannot grant life, but it leads to Christ.

For "And they are the ones bearing witness about Me" (John 5:39)

Gen. 3:15 – The first prophecy about Christ.

Deut. 18:15 – Moses speaks of a future prophet like himself.

Isa. 53 – The suffering servant points to Jesus.

Mic. 5:2 – The Messiah’s birthplace is foretold.

Luke 24:27 – Jesus explains how the Law and Prophets speak of Him.

Acts 3:22-24 – Peter confirms that Moses and the prophets spoke of Jesus.

For "Yet you refuse to come to Me that you may have life" (John 5:40)

John 1:11 – He came to His own, but they did not receive Him.

John 3:19-20 – People reject the light because they love darkness.

Luke 16:31 – Even if one rises from the dead, they will not believe.

Heb. 4:2 – The Word was of no benefit because it was not combined with faith.

Ye search (eraunāte). Proper spelling as the papyri show rather than ereunāte, the old form (from ereuna, search) as in Jhn_7:52. The form here can be either present active indicative second person plural or the present active imperative second person plural. Only the context can decide. Either makes sense here, but the reason given “because ye think” (hoti humeis dokeite, clearly indicative), supports the indicative rather than the imperative. Besides, Jesus is arguing on the basis of their use of “the Scriptures” (tas graphas). The plural with the article refers to the well-known collection in the Old Testament (Mat_21:42; Luk_24:27). Elsewhere in John the singular refers to a particular passage (Jhn_2:22; Jhn_7:38; Jhn_10:35).

In them ye have eternal life (en autais zōēn aiōnion echein). Indirect assertion after dokeite without “ye” expressed either as nominative (humeis) or accusative (humas). Bernard holds that in John dokeō always indicates a mistaken opinion (Jhn_5:45; Jhn_11:13, Jhn_11:31; Jhn_13:29; Jhn_16:20; Jhn_20:15). Certainly the rabbis did make a mechanical use of the letter of Scripture as a means of salvation.
These are they (ekeinai eisin hai). The true value of the Scriptures is in their witness to Christ (of me, peri emou). Luke (Luk_24:27, Luk_24:45) gives this same claim of Jesus, and yet some critics fail to find the Messiah in the Old Testament. But Jesus did.

Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you suppose that in them you have eternal life. It is these that testify about Me.
Joh 5:40 Yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life!
Joh 5:41 I do not accept glory from men.
Joh 5:42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves.
Joh 5:43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me. But if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
Joh 5:44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that comes from God alone?
Joh 5:45 “Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father. The one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have put your hope.
Joh 5:46 For if you were believing Moses, you would believe Me—because he wrote about Me.
Joh 5:47 But since you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

J.

All that for nothing..... I can read. I know the context. You're bloviating.

Lets make this about YOUR understand of what Jesus aid. So let me ask YOU...

1. Do you believe you have life in the Scriptures themselves?
2. In realty, many people search the Scriptures to find themselves. Not to find God. Do you search the Scriptures to find God?

People can know the Scriptures and not know Jesus.

 

[Johann]

All that for nothing..... I can read. I know the context. You're bloviating.

Not for nothing, others may read, hopefully.

1. Do you believe you have life in the Scriptures themselves?

Yes, it is God breathed, holy and food for my soul. And our Lord Jesus Christ is risen.

People can know the Scriptures and not know Jesus.

Absolutely.

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Not for nothing, others may read, hopefully.

Fair enough.

Yes, it is God breathed, holy and food for my soul. And our Lord Jesus Christ is risen.

Christ arose regardless of what men foretold or witnessed thereafter. That power came from Himself. Not the Scriptures.

Absolutely.

J.

Good. Which is how I applied those words.