Not guilty of Adam's sin

[TomL]

Ezekiel 18:1–4 (ESV) — 1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’? 3 As I live, declares the Lord GOD, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. 4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

Ezekiel 18:18–20 (ESV) — 18 As for his father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother, and did what is not good among his people, behold, he shall die for his iniquity. 19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

2 Kings 14:6 (ESV) — 6 But he did not put to death the children of the murderers, according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, where the LORD commanded, “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. But each one shall die for his own sin.”

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) — 16 “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

2 Chronicles 25:4 (ESV) — 4 But he did not put their children to death, according to what is written in the Law, in the Book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, “Fathers shall not die because of their children, nor children die because of their fathers, but each one shall die for his own sin.”

Jeremiah 31:29–30 (ESV) — 29 In those days they shall no longer say: “ ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’ 30 But everyone shall die for his own iniquity. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

 

[Olde Tymer]

~
FAQ: How was it legitimate for Adam's posterity to be given the death penalty for
his offense when so many passages in the Bible are opposed to passing a father's
mistakes on to his progeny? For example: Ezek 18:1–4, Ezek 18:18–20, 2Kngs
14:6, Deut 24:16, 2Chron 25:4, and Jer 31:29–30.

REPLY: The laws of God, especially His codified laws, are not retroactive. (Deut
5:2-4, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13 and Gal 3:17)

That technicality is very useful when curious folks come around asking how Jesus'
human sacrifice was legal seeing as he-- a Jew --was limited to the atonements
specified in the covenant that Moses' people entered into with God per Exodus,
Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, to wit:

● Deut 4:2 …You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything
away from it, but keep the commandments of The Lord your God that I enjoin upon
you.

● Deut 5:29-30 …Be careful, then, to do as The Lord your God has commanded
you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the path that The Lord
your God has enjoined upon you.

Well, the secret is: Jesus was designated, and scheduled, to die for the sins of the
world prior to both the world and Moses' covenant. (1Pet 1:20 & Rev 13:8)
_

 

[TomL]

~
FAQ: How was it legitimate for Adam's posterity to be given the death penalty for
his offense when so many passages in the Bible are opposed to passing a father's
mistakes on to his progeny? For example: Ezek 18:1–4, Ezek 18:18–20, 2Kngs
14:6, Deut 24:16, 2Chron 25:4, and Jer 31:29–30.

REPLY: The laws of God, especially His codified laws, are not retroactive. (Deut
5:2-4, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13 and Gal 3:17)

Does not that just assume the laws cited above were not founded on moral principles,

or suggest God has changing moral principles, which would be rather problematic as God does not change.

 

[Olde Tymer]

Does not that just assume the laws cited above were not founded on moral principles, or suggest
God has changing moral principles, which would be rather problematic as God does not change.

The ex post facto principle is an extremely important technicality in the Bible.

For example: Abraham was married to a sibling, in point of fact his half-sister (Gen
20:12) and he lied about her association with him. (Gen 12:11-13 & Gen 20:1-2)

Incest and dishonesty became curse-worthy +/- 400 years later in the covenant
that Moses' people entered into with God per Lev 18:6-9, Lev 19:11, and Deut
27:26.

However; according to Deut 5:2-4 and Gal 3:17 God wasn't required to slam
Abraham with a curse because in his day incest and dishonesty weren't prohibited.

● Rom 4:15 . . Where there is no law there is no transgression.

● Rom 5:13 . . Prior to the law, sin was in the world but sin is not imputed when
there is no law.

The ex post facto principle also applies to Jesus because he was designated, and
scheduled, to die for the sins of the world prior to human sacrifice becoming illegal.
(1Pet 1:20 & Rev 13:8) In my mind's eye, human sacrifice is immoral but what can
can I say when there's no law against it?
_

 

[TomL]

The ex post facto principle is an extremely important technicality in the Bible.

For example: Abraham was married to a sibling, in point of fact his half-sister (Gen
20:12) and he lied about her association with him. (Gen 12:11-13 & Gen 20:1-2)

Incest and dishonesty became curse-worthy +/- 400 years later in the covenant
that Moses' people entered into with God per Lev 18:6-9, Lev 19:11, and Deut
27:26.

However; according to Deut 5:2-4 and Gal 3:17 God wasn't required to slam
Abraham with a curse because in his day incest and dishonesty weren't prohibited.

● Rom 4:15 . . Where there is no law there is no transgression.

● Rom 5:13 . . Prior to the law, sin was in the world but sin is not imputed when
there is no law.

The ex post facto principle also applies to Jesus because he was designated, and
scheduled, to die for the sins of the world prior to human sacrifice becoming illegal.
(1Pet 1:20 & Rev 13:8) In my mind's eye, human sacrifice is immoral but what can
can I say when there's no law against it?
_

Because of the hardness of peoples heart things may have been overlooked and allowance made for but in this case we are dealing with God who does not change and in whom there is no shaddow of turning

 

[101G]

Ezekiel 18:1–4 (ESV) — 1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’? 3 As I live, declares the Lord GOD, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. 4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

when the sons shop at the same fruit-stand as their fathers, this is why their teeth are set on edge...... change/Repent fruit-stands.

101G.

 

[TomL]

when the sons shop at the same fruit-stand as their fathers, this is why their teeth are set on edge...... change/Repent fruit-stands.

101G.

The principle is the children are not responsible for the acts of the parent

 

[101G]

The principle is the children are not responsible for the acts of the parent

Just like 101G said, if the children do the same things as their fathers they are just responsible themselves. for sin is sin, no matter the action, or degree....... (smile) ... lol, lol, lol, Oh dear.

101G.

 

[TomL]

Just like 101G said, if the children do the same things as their fathers they are just responsible themselves. for sin is sin, no matter the action, or degree....... (smile) ... lol, lol, lol, Oh dear.

101G.

In other words, you are agreeing with what I stated

 

[101G]

In other words, you are agreeing with what I stated

no.
and here's why

Because of the hardness of peoples heart things may have been overlooked and allowance made for but in this case we are dealing with God who does not change and in whom there is no shaddow of turning

God dose not Change? let's see, Genesis 6:5 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:6 "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

repent is a change of one's mind. Exodus 32:14 "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

in his thoughts, and not the action intended is no shadow of turning. for pray can change God actions.... Just ask Jermiah. ..... (Smile)......

101G.

101G

 

[TomL]

no.
and here's why

God dose not Change? let's see, Genesis 6:5 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:6 "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

repent is a change of one's mind. Exodus 32:14 "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

in his thoughts, and not the action intended is no shadow of turning. for pray can change God actions.... Just ask Jermiah. ..... (Smile)......

101G.

101G

Nothing there disproves

The principle is the children are not responsible for the acts of the parent

Men are not born guilty of Adam's sin

 

[civic]

Ezekiel 18:1–4 (ESV) — 1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’? 3 As I live, declares the Lord GOD, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. 4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

Ezekiel 18:18–20 (ESV) — 18 As for his father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother, and did what is not good among his people, behold, he shall die for his iniquity. 19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

2 Kings 14:6 (ESV) — 6 But he did not put to death the children of the murderers, according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, where the LORD commanded, “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. But each one shall die for his own sin.”

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) — 16 “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

2 Chronicles 25:4 (ESV) — 4 But he did not put their children to death, according to what is written in the Law, in the Book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, “Fathers shall not die because of their children, nor children die because of their fathers, but each one shall die for his own sin.”

Jeremiah 31:29–30 (ESV) — 29 In those days they shall no longer say: “ ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’ 30 But everyone shall die for his own iniquity. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Amen

 

[TomL]

Amen

Men are judged for their own sin not Adams

 

[civic]

Men are judged for their own sin not Adams

Yes indeed