brightfame52
Active Member
Man by nature does not have the ability to come and Believe on Christ John 6:44, 65
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
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Darby
Active Member
The statement that I hold to is humans have the natural ability to believe on Christ. But it is a complex theological topic with differing viewpoints. Some interpretations emphasize a "natural" or "moral" inability, suggesting that without divine intervention, humans are spiritually dead or averse to God and cannot choose salvation on their own. Other views, often associated with the Catholic Church's understanding of semi-Pelagianism, hold that while humanity is affected by the Fall, its will and reason are not completely destroyed, allowing for a cooperative role in salvation alongside God's grace. Ultimately, these differing views hinge on the theological interpretation of human nature after the fall of Adam and Eve and the role of God's grace in salvation, as discussed by sources like Covenant of Grace Church, Cedarville University, and Cold Case Christianity.
Arguments for a natural ability to cooperate in salvation
- Enduring will: Some theological traditions argue that the human will was damaged but not destroyed by the Fall. Therefore, while grace is still needed, humans retain an ability to cooperate with God in the process of salvation.
- Partial fallenness: This view suggests that human nature is only partly fallen and that the capacity for reason and will remains, allowing humans to respond to God's grace when offered.
- Autonomy: This perspective sees humans as having some level of autonomy, where their will is harmed but not eliminated, which allows for a partnership between human choice and divine grace.
Alternative perspectives
- Free will: Some interpretations focus on the idea of free will, suggesting that humans are free to choose what they want, but because of Adam and Eve's fall, no one naturally wants or chooses what is right in God's sight.
- God's grace: Other views highlight the concept of divine grace as the primary factor, stating that even our ability to believe is a gift from God, and our best moments are simply God's work in us.
False
This is the drawing of Old Testament saints during the time of Christ’s Earthly dwelling
John 6:45 (NASB95) — 45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Those who believe Moses
John 5:46 (LEB) — 46 For if you had believed Moses, you would believe me, for that one wrote about me.
Those who had God as their father
John 8:42 (LEB) — 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I have come forth from God and have come. For I have not come from myself, but that one sent me.
Those desiring the will of God
John 7:17 (LEB) — 17 If anyone wants to do his will, he will know about my teaching, whether it is from God or I am speaking from myself.
Those who were God’s were given to Christ
John 17:6 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.
and kept his word
additionally
Romans 10:8–10 (NASB95) — 8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
by stating THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”
God is showing men can believe.
Scripture contradicts you
Romans 10:8–10 (NASB95) — 8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Um in context it is those who love God and are called according to his purpose
Romans 8:28–30 (NASB95) — 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
brightfame52
Active Member
That's against what Christ just said
brightfame52
Active Member
That doesn't change anything
Darby
Active Member
He said this, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" is found in John 12:32 of the Bible. It refers to Jesus speaking about His crucifixion, indicating that His death would attract all people to Him, symbolizing the salvation He offers. This statement encompasses not only His crucifixion but also His resurrection and ascension, emphasizing the significance of His sacrifice for humanity.
brightfame52
Active Member
That's The Power of his death and Resurrection in bringing all the elect Jew and Gentiles to him
brightfame52
Active Member
Man it's totally deprave dead in sin by nature
Scripture disproves your doctrine
Deuteronomy 30:10–19 (NASB95) — 10 if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul. 11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
Joshua 24:15–24 (NASB95) — 15 “If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” 16 The people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we should forsake the LORD to serve other gods; 17 for the LORD our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and who did these great signs in our sight and preserved us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 “The LORD drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. 20 “If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you.” 21 The people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve the LORD.” 22 Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to the LORD, the God of Israel.” 24 The people said to Joshua, “We will serve the LORD our God and we will obey His voice.”
Romans 10:8–10 (NASB95) — 8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
brightfame52
Active Member
No it doesn't scripture confirms it
Kokomo
Active Member
Free will, in commonly understood biblical terms, refers to the God-given capacity of humans to choose or reject what is presented to them. When it comes to embracing salvation and the message of the gospel, Scripture underscores the significance of a voluntary, heart-based decision to embrace Christ. This entry examines the role free will plays in accepting Jesus, illustrating how the biblical narrative unites divine sovereignty with human responsibility.
John 12:32 The cross as a magnet:
The crucifixion is seen as the central, powerful force in history that attracts people to Christ. It is understood as a redemptive act that accomplishes salvation for those who believe, not just makes it possible.
brightfame52
Active Member
The cross actually saved them Christ died for, not just make it possible
Kokomo
Active Member
By dragging them kicking and screaming to the cross.
The truth is you were actually saved when you said yes to Christ on the day He entered your life—and you felt a new passion, a new appetite for living, a new joy, and a new peace.
In other words, the great war for your soul was won on that day when Christ came into your heart. The day you believed in Him and accepted His gift of salvation that He made possible for the whole world not just some few.
The bad news is if Calvinism is true then the elect people are better than everyone else. So therefore the bible is wrong when it says that all men are equal in Gods eyes? Or that WHOSOEVER believe on him can be saved? So if we tell someone they can be saved through Jesus Christ and they are not one of the elect then the bible lied to that person. If someone who is not the elect reads John 3:16, that person was lied to by God because he is not the elect. That is not the God of the bible and it makes Calvinism unbiblical.
