brightfame52
Active Member
Yes He did, Jesus Christ said man does not have the ability to believe in Him Jn 6 44, 65
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
You ignored scripture again
No he did not for those who believe God come to Jesus
John 6:45 (NASB 95) — 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
And those who believe Moses would believe Christ
John 5:46 (LEB) — 46 For if you had believed Moses, you would believe me, for that one wrote about me.
Those who had God as their father
John 8:42 (LEB) — 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I have come forth from God and have come. For I have not come from myself, but that one sent me.
Would love Christ
Those desiring the will of God
John 7:17 (LEB) — 17 If anyone wants to do his will, he will know about my teaching, whether it is from God or I am speaking from myself.
Will know the truth of Christ's word
Those who were God’s and given to Christ
John 17:6 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.
would keep his word
Of course it does to anyone reading scripture correctly.
Yep
Romans 7:9–24 (NASB95) — 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. 13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful. 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
Yes, and moreover, verse 9 is a direct rebuttal of Original Sin and the even worse Total Depravity.
Doug Brents
Active Member
There you go, trying to think again, but working without tools. The "all" in John 12:32 is not limited by anything.
Doug Brents
Active Member
I never said we can save ourselves. I said that we can choose to accept the gift God has given us through Christ Jesus because He has given us that option through His death and resurrection.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Yes, "all" means all. In Job 38:7, all means all. Every son of God, every human (if there were any at the time He is speaking of) and all the angels (which are also said to be sons of God (Genesis 6:2, 4, Job 1:6, and 2:1)) gave praise to God along with the stars in the heavens and the earth beneath.
And "all" in John 12:32 means all mankind, just as 1 John 1:2:2 says that it is not only for the "elect" that Jesus died, but for all mankind.
civic
Active Member
Yes the whole world in 1 John 2:2 is all inclusive. See the definition below
holos: Whole, all, entire, complete
Original Word: ὅλος
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: holos
Pronunciation: HO-los
Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os)
KJV: all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole
NASB: all, whole, entire, completely, entirely, full
Word Origin: [a primary word]
1. "whole" or "all", i.e. complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
all, altogether, whole.
A primary word; "whole" or "all", i.e. Complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb -- all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.
HELPS Word-studies
3650 hólos (a primitive adjective and the root of the English term "whole") – properly, wholly, where all the parts are present and working as a whole – i.e. as the total, which is greater than the mere sum of the parts.
but also for the sins of the whole world
Here, the text expands the reach of Christ's atoning work to encompass all humanity. This aligns with the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19) and the vision of a diverse multitude worshiping God in Revelation 7:9. It suggests that the offer of salvation through Jesus is available to every person, regardless of ethnicity, culture, or background. This universality does not imply universalism (the belief that all will be saved regardless of faith), but rather that the potential for salvation is extended to all, contingent upon faith in Christ (John 3:16). The phrase also reflects the missionary zeal of the early church, which sought to spread the gospel to the ends of the earth (Acts 1:8).
– John 3:16 grounds the offer of salvation in God’s love for “the world,” declaring that whoever believes will have eternal life.
– 2 Peter 3:9 underscores God’s desire that none should perish but all come to repentance.
– Revelation 5:9 celebrates a redeemed people “from every tribe and tongue and people and nation,” proving Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient for all humanity.
– While the benefits are applied only to those who repent and believe (Acts 10:43), the scope of provision is limitless, inviting evangelism, prayer, and hope for every soul.
hope this helps !!!
Doug Brents
Active Member
And confess Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and are baptized into Christ (Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, John 3:5, etc.). You cannot leave these out and expect to receive what is stated will result from them.
civic
Active Member
Agreed I was just pointing out the atonement is all inclusive in the same way the gospel is all inclusive for everyone. And of course without faith it is impossible to be saved.
brightfame52
Active Member
You ignored what Jesus said about man not having the ability to believe in Him Jn 6:44,65 that debunks mans freewill to believe in Jesus.
brightfame52
Active Member
Get back to the subject, man hasnt the freewill ability to believe in Jesus Jn 6:44,65
He did not say they could not if they heard and learned from the Father
John 6:45 (NASB95) — 45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
If they believed Moses
John 5:46 (LEB) — 46 For if you had believed Moses, you would believe me, for that one wrote about me.
If they had God as their father
John 8:42 (LEB) — 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I have come forth from God and have come. For I have not come from myself, but that one sent me.
If they desired the will of God
John 7:17 (LEB) — 17 If anyone wants to do his will, he will know about my teaching, whether it is from God or I am speaking from myself.
Those who were God’s and have kept his word
John 17:6 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Match John 6:44 with John 12:32. Yes, man cannot come to God without God drawing him to Himself, but when Christ was lifted up, He drew all mankind to Himself. This means that all mankind has the ability to choose to accept Christ.
You continually take a position and then seek to find verses that support it. Or you read a single verse and formulate your opinion without researching other passages that clarify what is meant by that first passage. Read all of Scripture, and let the accumulated total direct your doctrines. Release this nonsense that has been shown to be incorrect.
brightfame52
Active Member
He said men don't have the ability to believe on Him, that debunked the false teaching of man's freewill to believe in Christ. Jn 6:44,65
brightfame52
Active Member
That's my point so man doesn't have the freewill ability to believe in Christ. Why?
Doug Brents
Active Member
You are cutting out of my comments the correction to your point of view. Man does have the freewill ability to believe in Christ, because God has already drawn all mankind to Himself through Jesus' death and resurrection. If Jesus had not died, then you would be correct, but He did die and was raised from the dead, so man does have the freewill ability to believe in Christ.
brightfame52
Active Member
My point was made, man has no freewil ability to believe in Jesus Christ. Jn 6:44,65
