No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[Selah]

Not necessarily.

Not all believers in Jesus are considered the elect in the same way; the concept of election and free will can coexist but they do not share the same attributes. While some theological views, like Calvinism, suggest that only those chosen by God (the elect) can truly believe, other perspectives argue that anyone can choose to accept God's grace and be saved.

Got Questions says...
Simply put, the “elect of God” are those whom God has predestined to salvation. They are called the “elect” because that word denotes “determining beforehand,” “ordaining,” “deciding ahead of time.” Every four years in the U.S., we “elect” a President—i.e., we choose who will serve in that office. The same goes for God and those who will be saved; God chooses those who will be saved. These are the elect of God.

And if you really engage with any Predestined or Calvin believer on here they will tell you that there is no free will.

To me, what matters is this:

What does the Bible say about predestination and election?

It’s there, plainly taught by our heavenly Father.

s e l a h

 

[brightfame52]

ἑλκύω

2. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας ... ἑλκουσης ἐπίἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπό τῆςἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (11).trahitsuaquemquevoluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρός ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; (Trench, § 21, Compare: ἐξέλκω.)

Doug

Post in thread 'No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !'

Monday at 11:02 AM

No, to him is Jesus. Drawn does not mean saved/conversion,

Even MacLaren, not a staunch Calvinist had this to write commenting on Isa 53:10 Christ seeing His seed following His being lifted up or dying for them

a. Having died, the Servant sees His offspring.

The sacrifice of Christ is the great power which draws men to Him, and moves to repentance, faith, love. His death was the communication of life. Nowhere else in the world’s history is the teacher’s death the beginning of His gathering of pupils, and not only has the dead Servant children, but He sees them...

• brightfame52

 

[Selah]

Not all believers in Jesus are considered the elect in the same way; the concept of election and free will can coexist but they do not share the same attributes.

There are two groups of people: the Elect and the non-Elect, and they certainly do share the same attributes. They love the LORD.

S e l a h

 

[FreeInChrist]

To me, what matters is this:

What does the Bible say about predestination and election?

It’s there, plainly taught by our heavenly Father.

s e l a h

But not with Free Will

 

[Selah]

But not with Free Will

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.

If you believe that God has chosen people from before time to give salvation to under his guidance that is called predestination.

That word IS in the bible.

John Calvin, IMO , screwed that entire concept up so you will find Calvinists and then you will find predestined believers.

Wikipedia simply explains the concept as this

Predestination
Predestination, in theology, is the doctrine that all events have been willed by God, usually with reference to the eventual fate of the individual soul. Explanations of predestination often seek to address the paradox of free will, whereby God's omniscience seems incompatible with human free will. In this usage, predestination can be regarded as a form of religious determinism; and usually predeterminism, also known as theological determinism.

If this is the case, as predestined people believe, there is no room for free-will.

I was raised in a church who followed those beliefs, but did not dogmatically teach it (unless that was in one of their weekly study groups I did not attend)

But the more I read the bible and other theological things and listened to teachings from assorted ideas as an adult,
I developed a free will belief. IOW I believe free will is the ability to make choices unimpeded, which is essential for moral responsibility. I believe that God's foreknowledge does not negate human freedom.

I believe it is God's foreknowledge of knowing what I, or you or anyone will do do not mean that he is in control of our actions or our beliefs. While He has a plan for salvation, I believe individuals still have the freedom to accept or reject that plan, making their choices meaningful.

IOW, in a nutshell... I believe God's foreknowledge means He knows who will choose to accept salvation, but this does not negate human free will. While God predestines certain events, individuals still have the freedom to make their own choices regarding faith and salvation.

Now... there are those on here who will say I am nuts.

Hopefully @brightfame52 or @Red Baker will come along and chime in with their views.

I disagree with both of them BUT we all have our free will to agree or disagree

I hope this helps you understand my view

 

[brightfame52]

When a person is being drawn by God or Christ its the equivalent of giving them both repentance and faith to believe on Him. 10

 

[TibiasDad]

Even MacLaren, not a staunch Calvinist had this to write commenting on Isa 53:10 Christ seeing His seed following His being lifted up or dying for them



You would deny such great power to the Death of Christ !

To move towards repentance is not to experience repentance necessarily. It is to make the need of repentance undeniable and makes us culpable for our decisions about it.

We are called to repentance by the gospel and the call is does what it is intended to do completely, but our response to it is another question.

Doug