TibiasDad
Active Member
Again, which word in the Greek text of Timothy’s letters says “elect only”? I’m having trouble finding it!
Doug
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
It doesnt have to say elect only, thats your addition. He specified who salvation in Christ was for
TibiasDad
Active Member
That’s a wasted action. The converted are not in need of being drawn; they already are. It’s like telling everyone out of the pool to get out of the pool! (Incidentally, the term is drew, not drawed.)
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
Duane
Active Member
Nope, that's not me. I'm not into the Institutes of the Christian Religion is John Calvin's work of systematic theology.
One of the big problems I have with John Calvin's theology (with Calvinism) is that he contradicts himself a lot.
In Book 1, Chapter 15, section 1, Calvin is basically saying that we can't blame God for mankind's problems or try to excuse ourselves for the problems we cause. He says we must "diligently guard" against the "depraved procedure" of blaming God and trying to excuse ourselves. (Totally true!)
Yet later, Calvin clearly teaches that humans have no free-will, that God controls everything, even all evil, even our wills, and that we can't make any choices or even any utterances on our own. Calvin clearly believes that there is only one operating force in the world, only one thing that affects anything: God.
Calvin's own words:
brightfame52
Active Member
It's the drawing that converts them
brightfame52
Active Member
What do you mean he just made a statement, just like when Jesus said he lays down his life for the sheep
dwight92070
Active Member
We know exactly who the Father draws to Jesus:
Jesus, who is God in the flesh, said: "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN to Myself. John 12:32
Your misinterpretation of the Bible that God only draws some to Jesus, but not others, contradicts the truth.
Who did the Father give to the Son?- those who have kept the Father's word and believed that everything that the Father gave Him was from the Father. John 6:6-7
brightfame52
Active Member
The Justified and reconciled
Foster
Active Member
Calvinists Love to distort scripture to teach heresy.
In an effort to support their theory, Calvinists will quote part of Ephesians 1:4. The first part of the verse says, “He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.”
However, the entire verse reads: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.
This verse says nothing about being chosen for Heaven or Hell. It speaks of how God has chosen the way for Christians to live.
Calvinists also like to quote part of John 15:16, “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you. …” The entire verse reads: Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Again, this verse says nothing about being chosen for Heaven or Hell. It says God has chosen that Christians should bear fruit. The fruit of a Christian is other Christians.
Proverbs 11:30 says: The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
In Acts 10:34, the Bible says that “God is no respecter of persons.” That means your mother, your little boy, your daughter, your wife, and all the children in the church nursery and you are included when God closed out His Bible with the invitation, “… whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Revelation 22:17).
The Bible also says in 2 Peter 3:9: God is … not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
First Timothy 2:4 refers to God as such: Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Calvinist posters go to great lengths to destroy the plain meaning of this verse. They say “all” doesn’t mean “all.” There is no end of their interpretations of this verse using their, “This is what the Bible says, but this is what it means” system.
In an effort to support their theory, Calvinists will quote part of Ephesians 1:4. The first part of the verse says, “He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.”
However, the entire verse reads: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.
This verse says nothing about being chosen for Heaven or Hell. It speaks of how God has chosen the way for Christians to live.
Calvinists also like to quote part of John 15:16, “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you. …” The entire verse reads: Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Again, this verse says nothing about being chosen for Heaven or Hell. It says God has chosen that Christians should bear fruit. The fruit of a Christian is other Christians.
Proverbs 11:30 says: The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
In Acts 10:34, the Bible says that “God is no respecter of persons.” That means your mother, your little boy, your daughter, your wife, and all the children in the church nursery and you are included when God closed out His Bible with the invitation, “… whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Revelation 22:17).
The Bible also says in 2 Peter 3:9: God is … not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
First Timothy 2:4 refers to God as such: Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Calvinist posters go to great lengths to destroy the plain meaning of this verse. They say “all” doesn’t mean “all.” There is no end of their interpretations of this verse using their, “This is what the Bible says, but this is what it means” system.
brightfame52
Active Member
Are you calling the truths of tulip Heresy?
Speculator
Active Member
Heresy involves holding beliefs that go against the official teachings of a religious institution or authority. And that is what Calvinist's do.
dwight92070
Active Member
Of course. No surprise there.
brightfame52
Active Member
Guess what tulip is the gospel
Hosanna
Active Member
We are playing guessing games now?
How about musical chairs? Also known as "Trip to Jerusalem". It was inspired by the immigration of Jews from the diaspora to Palestine, wherein it is stated that spaces on ships taking the Jews to the said land were limited.
Rowan
Active Member
Just telling it like it is.
TibiasDad
Active Member
I agree! If we are meticulously determined before our existence, there can be no ‘freedom’ from God’s will.
The idea of compatibility is antithetical to Calvin’s teachings; you’re either in, or you’re out from even before the start!
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
“I will draw all men to Myself.” Either Jesus lied, or your understanding is wrong! (Hint: Jesus cannot lie!)
Doug
