My understanding of the Gospel—summarized

[Diserner]

The thing about the Gospel is you can keep going in more depth and detail, and it could take an entire book easily. If I were to describe the Gospel as a set of facts, I could make this list. But remember this is not mere information—this comes as spiritual revelation on a higher plane directly from the Spirit of God. This is a miraculous experience and revelation, not just believing in information.

1. There is a spiritual realm and not just a physical realm, with a Creator and evil and good spirits. Evil spirits were created good and rebelled sometime in the past.

2. Our ancestors rejected and disobeyed God, bringing a curse to the physical world and a disposition to do morally evil things and a world dominated by evil spirits.

3. God called certain people and ethnicities to prepare the way for his ordained solution to this original rebellion that affected everyone.

4. God's ordained way was for one of his Three Persons to become a sinless human being in this fallen world, overcoming Satan's power, to live a perfect life and die a death that takes the judgment of the wrath of God for all sins and reboot all of creation spiritually with his resurrection three days later.

5. Jesus was this Messiah and a heart's trust in his substitionary life, death and resurrection, will produce an inward change for good, and a new spiritual life in the heart, that is Mediated to us through the Holy Spirit's application of Jesus intercession of his own sacrifice, whereupon we are counted as in union with Christ, a part of him.

6. For an OT saint pre-Christ, this grace of atonement was reckoned to their life by their trust in the Torah and God's personal voice to their lives.

7. In the NT the saints, by maintaining a trust in Christ to the end of their life out of a sincere relationship with him, will be transferred upon death to a new creation and live with Christ forever in a perfect sinless paradise.

8. One thing that comes up a lot, is what are the minimal requirements to be saved. The minimal facts for salvation in this dispensation are very basic, just that God sent Jesus to die for our personal sins, and if we trust in that we will go to heaven when we die. Vast amounts of error and false doctrine can be forgiven in the greatness of the atonement's power. There are however, certain deliberate deeply rebellious acts that can forfeit our salvation by rejecting Christ's grace.

 

[Diserner]

I do want to mention I don't spam Scripture proof texts, even though there are verses to back all these points.

The reason is, that people can interpret Scripture any way they want to be redefining words and not listening to the Spirit.

 

[civic]

I see all your points with the gospel do not include any verses with the gospel being mentioned to support your points. So it’s a matter of your opinion not necessarily what the Bible describes as the gospel.

 

[civic]

My understanding is Romans 1:16, 1 Corinthians 15:1-8.

 

[Soyeong]

The thing about the Gospel is you can keep going in more depth and detail, and it could take an entire book easily. If I were to describe the Gospel as a set of facts, I could make this list. But remember this is not mere information—this comes as spiritual revelation on a higher plane directly from the Spirit of God. This is a miraculous experience and revelation, not just believing in information.

1. There is a spiritual realm and not just a physical realm, with a Creator and evil and good spirits. Evil spirits were created good and rebelled sometime in the past.

2. Our ancestors rejected and disobeyed God, bringing a curse to the physical world and a disposition to do morally evil things and a world dominated by evil spirits.

3. God called certain people and ethnicities to prepare the way for his ordained solution to this original rebellion that affected everyone.

4. God's ordained way was for one of his Three Persons to become a sinless human being in this fallen world, overcoming Satan's power, to live a perfect life and die a death that takes the judgment of the wrath of God for all sins and reboot all of creation spiritually with his resurrection three days later.

5. Jesus was this Messiah and a heart's trust in his substitionary life, death and resurrection, will produce an inward change for good, and a new spiritual life in the heart, that is Mediated to us through the Holy Spirit's application of Jesus intercession of his own sacrifice, whereupon we are counted as in union with Christ, a part of him.

6. For an OT saint pre-Christ, this grace of atonement was reckoned to their life by their trust in the Torah and God's personal voice to their lives.

7. In the NT the saints, by maintaining a trust in Christ to the end of their life out of a sincere relationship with him, will be transferred upon death to a new creation and live with Christ forever in a perfect sinless paradise.

8. One thing that comes up a lot, is what are the minimal requirements to be saved. The minimal facts for salvation in this dispensation are very basic, just that God sent Jesus to die for our personal sins, and if we trust in that we will go to heaven when we die. Vast amounts of error and false doctrine can be forgiven in the greatness of the atonement's power. There are however, certain deliberate deeply rebellious acts that can forfeit our salvation by rejecting Christ's grace.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. The Torah is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so OT saints embodying God's word is the same as NT saints having faith in the one who is the embodiment of God's word.

 

[Johann]

THE FALL OF MANKIND

OLD TESTAMENT
 Judaism does not focus on the sinfulness of all humans. It basically asserts the tension between "the good intent" and "the evil intent" in every person (i.e., the two yetzers). The famous Jewish proverb is "in every human heart is a black dog and a white dog. The one that is fed the most becomes the biggest."

 Some Rabbinical Midrash does assert the origin of evil from Genesis 6 The Church has focused on Genesis 3 as the origin of sin and rebellion in humanity. Christianity has explained the evil and suffering in this world as a result of human sin and rebellion, not the Divine will. This is not the world God intended it to be!

 Adam and Eve's choice of self directiveness over God's word brought a terrible consequence to all humans. This theological concept is called "Hebrew Corporality"

NEW TESTAMENT
 That the Fall affected all mankind (i.e., Hebrew corporality) is clearly expressed by Paul in Rom. 5:12-21). Paul develops his theology of the sinfulness of all humanity in the book of Romans. The first point of "the good news" of the gospel is the bad news of human need! Paul develops this from Rom. 1:18-3:18 (the summary conclusion is Rom. 3:19-31; also note Eph. 2:1-3). The book of Romans describes the lostness, sinfulness, and need of all human beings.

immoral pagans
moral pagans
Jews
Everyone is responsible to God because of

natural revelation, Rom. 1:18-23
internal moral witness, Rom. 2:14-16

One of the most horrible recurrent phrases in Romans 1-3 is, "God gave them over. . ." (cf. Rom.1:24,26,28; Eph. 4:17-19). A shocking litany of OT texts is quoted in Rom. 3:9-18! Humans are in deep trouble, need, and rebellion! One does not need a "Savior" until one recognizes his/her need!

Romans 5:12-21 is a discussion of Jesus as the second Adam (cf. 1 Cor. 15:21-22, 45-49; Phil. 2:6-8). It gives emphasis to the theological concept of both individual sin and corporate guilt. Paul's development of mankind's (and creation's, cf. Rom. 8:18-23) fall in Adam was unique and different from the rabbis', while his view of corporality was very much in line with rabbinical teaching. It showed Paul's ability under inspiration to use, or supplement, the truths he was taught during his training in Jerusalem under Gamaliel (cf. Acts 22:3). See Alfred Edershim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah.

THEOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT
The doctrine of original sin from Genesis 3, and Paul's writings, was developed by Augustine and Calvin. It asserts that humans are born sinful. Often Psalm 51:5; 58:3; and Job 15:14; 25:4 are used as OT proof-texts. The alternate theological position that humans are morally and spiritually responsible for their own choices and destiny was developed first by Rabbinical Midrash and then in the church by Pelagius and Arminius. There is some evidence for their view in Deut. 1:39; Isa. 7:15; Jonah 4:11; John 9:41; 15:22,24; Acts 17:30; Rom. 4:15. The thrust of this theological position would be that children are innocent until an age of moral responsibility (for the rabbis this was 13 years old for boys and 12 years old for girls);

There is a mediating position in which both an innate evil propensity and an age of moral responsibility are both true! Evil is not only corporate, but a developing evil of self and sin (life apart from God). The wickedness of humanity is not the issue (cf. Gen. 6:5, 11-12, 13; Rom. 3:9-18, 23). but the when—at birth or later in life?

Copyright © 2014 Bible Lessons International
Bob Utley

To no one in particular.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

BIBLICAL FAITH IS CORPORATE

The Bible is an eastern book which focuses on family, tribe, and national groups. The individual is meant to serve the good of the whole. One person's actions affects the whole.

Old Testament Concept

Hebrew corporality can be defined as "one affects the whole"
Adam and Eve (Genesis 3, negatively)
High Priest (Leviticus 16, positively)
Achan (Joshua 7, negatively)
Jesus (the new Adam, cf. Rom. 5:12-21, positively)

The OT had both an individual aspect (i.e., Ezekiel 18), but mostly a corporate focus. Israel was a chosen people.

This sense of corporality is hard for western, individualists to comprehend. Moderns express the value on the individual person, where the eastern ancients focus on the health of the group
 The goal of the believer is the health and growth of the Body!

New Testament Concept

Paul's and Peter's use of PLURAL imagery for the people of God
body (cf. 1 Cor. 12:12-20)
field (cf. 1 Cor. 3:9)
building (cf. 1 Pet. 2:4-5)

The term "saint" is always PLURAL (except Phil. 4:21, but even there it is also corporate)

The Reformation emphasis of Martin Luther on the "priesthood of the believer" (i.e., soul competency) is a biblical assumption. In reality the Bible speaks of "the priesthood of believers" (cf. Exod. 19:6; 1 Pet. 2:5,9; Rev. 1:6).

Each believer is gifted for the common good (cf. 1 Cor. 12:7)

Only in cooperation can the people of God be effective. Ministry is corporate (cf. Eph. 4:11-12).
Beware of western individualism that focuses only on the rights and privileges of the one! The Bible is an eastern book!

J.

 

[Johann]

 

[Peter]

The gospel is described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12 and by Jesus in the four gospels. Mark 1:15 -repent and believe the kingdom of God is at hand. Matthew 4:17- repent the kingdom of God is at hand.

 

[Diserner]

I see all your points with the gospel do not include any verses with the gospel being mentioned to support your points. So it’s a matter of your opinion not necessarily what the Bible describes as the gospel.

False.

Just spamming Bible verses begs the question that they need interpretation—as if you have a "direct" line to meaning, when someone else disagrees with you.

Underneath that is the pride of man, not wanting to be dependent and reliant on the Spirit to explain and interpret, as the Bible itself says he will do.

My understanding is Romans 1:16, 1 Corinthians 15:1-8.

My understanding is GENESIS THROUGH REVELATION.

For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. (Acts 20:27 NKJ)

Spamming one verse says nothing, it adds nothing explanatory.

 

[civic]

False.

Just spamming Bible verses begs the question that they need interpretation—as if you have a "direct" line to meaning, when someone else disagrees with you.

Underneath that is the pride of man, not wanting to be dependent and reliant on the Spirit to explain and interpret, as the Bible itself says he will do.



My understanding is GENESIS THROUGH REVELATION.

For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. (Acts 20:27 NKJ)

Spamming one verse says nothing, it adds nothing explanatory.

I'm not saying your points were not good or they were not true. Personally I like some scripture references to go with the points being made is all.

 

[Johann]

False.

Just spamming Bible verses begs the question that they need interpretation—as if you have a "direct" line to meaning, when someone else disagrees with you.

Underneath that is the pride of man, not wanting to be dependent and reliant on the Spirit to explain and interpret, as the Bible itself says he will do.



My understanding is GENESIS THROUGH REVELATION.

For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. (Acts 20:27 NKJ)

Spamming one verse says nothing, it adds nothing explanatory.

What's going on brother-having a tough time with @civic?
And NO one here can boast/claim they know the whole counsel of God-yes?
J.

 

[civic]

What's going on brother-having a tough time with @civic?
And NO one here can boast/claim they know the whole counsel of God-yes?
J.

Amen to that. I was just talking to my sister yesterday who is a believer about Jesus promise to the 12 ( not us ) that when the Holy Spirit comes whom I will send He will bring to remembrance everything I have taught you and guide you into all truth.

That does not apply to us but to them as they wrote our N.T. and were guided by the Holy Spirit into writing and teaching all truth.

Its obvious that doesn't apply to us since churches, denominations, people, pastors, elders etc...... are not of one accord and do not know all truth which is why there are so many divisions in the church, denominations, with people etc......

hope this helps !!!

 

[Johann]

Amen to that. I was just talking to my sister yesterday who is a believer about Jesus promise to the 12 ( not us ) that when the Holy Spirit comes whom I will send He will bring to remembrance everything I have taught you and guide you into all truth.

That does not apply to us but to them as they wrote our N.T. and were guided by the Holy Spirit into writing and teaching all truth.

Its obvious that doesn't apply to us since churches, denominations, people, pastors, elders etc...... are not of one accord and do not know all truth which is why there are so many divisions in the church, denominations, with people etc......

hope this helps !!!

And correct you are brother-I sincerely hope this Forum is not like the others-members decimating others character with impunity since we cannot agree on any topic.
Heck man-I'll be the first to confess I don't know it all and have joined this Forum in the hope of learning.
Shalom
J.

 

[civic]

And correct you are brother-I sincerely hope this Forum is not like the others-members decimating others character with impunity since we cannot agree on any topic.
Heck man-I'll be the first to confess I don't know it all and have joined this Forum in the hope of learning.
Shalom
J.

Amen

 

[Johann]

Amen

I like honesty and transparency and to say-No, I don't have the answer.
J.

 

[civic]

I like honesty and transparency and to say-No, I don't have the answer.
J.

Yes the same here my friend.

 

[Diserner]

And NO one here can boast/claim they know the whole counsel of God-yes?
J.

Do we have the Bible?

That's not pride.

Do we interpret it perfectly?

That can be pride.

However I would challenge you—to think about whether Paul meant "no one can have the full counsel I have preached unto you."

Seek and ye shall find.

 

[Diserner]

I like honesty and transparency and to say-No, I don't have the answer.
J.

I like honesty too.

But I'm not going to listen to someone who says they don't have the answer on a topic.

Why would I?

Christ said if the blind follow the blind, both end up in a ditch.

 

[civic]

I like honesty too.

But I'm not going to listen to someone who says they don't have the answer on a topic.

Why would I?

Christ said if the blind follow the blind, both end up in a ditch.

When will Jesus Return ?

I'm sorry I couldn't help myself.