More about Calvin & Tulip

Behold

Behold

Well-known member
Reader,

There are vessels "fitted for destruction".....

That is everyone who is never born again, and dies. This does not include babies or small children.

So, John 3:36, says that God's Wrath is on unbelievers.. So THEY are the "vessels fitted", and waiting.

This is every unbeliever.......They are all the "vessels"... It was once you and me....... We were "fitted", but we didnt end up there...because we gave our faith in Christ to GOD..
Those "Vessels fitted, never do.. and their END, is pre-determined, based on their CHOICE to Reject Christ and die never born again.

See, the confusion is.... when a teaching arrives that teaches that some people are destined to be those vessels.. and have no choice.
So, THAT is where the lie, comes into play..

How to get past that deception if a person is a Calvinist?

It like this.. There is a hell, and there is a pre-determined situation that is "ready to go", regarding everyone who dies as a Christ rejector, never born again.
So, everyone who decides to die in unbelief.......they are pre-destined to become the "Vessels fitted".. and that is not because God decided that for them to become........Its because there is a pre-determined outcome that awaits any and all who die, never born again.
So, because they chose that...they CHOSE to die never trusting in Christ........then God has a pre-determined outcome waiting for them, when they die.

The NT refers to them as "Vessels fitted".

So, when we read "vessels fitted"... that is simply another way of saying.. "Eternally Damned"..... "going to hell", then "the lake of Fire".
Its the same pre-destined outcome, that awaits every unbeliever who is currently breathing, that THEY destined upon themselves... by their unbelief..
But if they turn to Jesus, then they stop being the "vessel fitted" and become the "new creation In Christ".

That Pre-determined DAMNATION, that is defined as "vessel fitted" , is simply.. "you are going to hell, because you never trusted in Christ"...

That is all there is to it......yet the NT has... some nomenclature, connected to.. it.

Like.. "The 2nd Death".. .and "Vessels fitted for Destruction".. and "Under the Wrath of God"..,,"Eternal Damnation"..

Those are just phrases that really just mean....""""You are damned to Hell, because you chose to die in unbelief, never borm again".... .and Just like going to Heaven is the Pre-destined outcome, of FAITH IN CHRIST.. then going to Hell, as a "vessel fitted" that is the 2nd Death...is the predetermined outcome of choosing to die never born again... as a Christ Rejector.

Where Calvin stepped in and made it a "doctrine of Devils" is when he changed the REASON a person goes to Heaven or Hell.

So, instead of the Person, having that Choice, Calvin decided that God made that choice for them, (pre-determined) and THAT is the heresy.. that is the "doctrine of Devils"..
Calvin lays the blame on GOD, regarding why someone goes to heaven or hell.. and the Bible lays the Blame, on "FREE WILL", as you decided.

And just to try to deny that the Person chooses to be the "Saint" or the "Vessel Fitted"....... you have TULIP< that steps in and says that Total Depravity extends to the WILL... which is an attempt to get rid of Free Will, as without that Calvinism and Tulip can't BLAME GOD, and that is what it does most of All.
Its designed to get a person to BLAME GOD for everything.., as that is what a Calvinists does. He first blames God, if he becomes sick.. He first blames God if His kid is murdered. He first blames God for ALL THE BAD.........that ever happens.
And why?
Because that allows The DEVIL to become BLAMELESS and that makes Him very well pleased.. and that is why He created Calvinism and TULIP and that is why its Probably His Masterpiece, regarding "doctrines of Devils' other then the "Cult of the Virgin", or "ISLAM."
 
Behold said:
This is every unbeliever.......They are all the "vessels"... It was once you and me....... We were "fitted", but we didnt end up there...because we gave our faith in Christ to GOD..
Those "Vessels fitted, never do.. and their END, is pre-determined, based on their CHOICE to Reject Christ and die never born again.
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The highlighted statements above are contradictory. You say “We were "fitted", but we didnt end up there…” but then say “Those "Vessels fitted, never do… ”

If we were “fitted” vessels, and "Vessels fitted, never do” become anything other than predestinated to destruction, then how was it “we didnt end up there…”?


Doug
 
The vessels of wrath fitted for destruction in Rom 9 were never vessels of mercy, we can be either of one or the other. Now the elect of God were never vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction, even though they had the same unbelieving, ungodly nature as the non elect, nevertheless they were never appointed to wrath as their counterpart vessels of wrath were 1 Thess 5:9

For God hath not appointed us[the vessels of mercy] to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Even as unbelievers the vessels of mercy are not under Gods wrath at anytime Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
 
brightfame52 said:
The vessels of wrath fitted for destruction in Rom 9 were never vessels of mercy, we can be either of one or the other. Now the elect of God were never vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction, even though they had the same unbelieving, ungodly nature as the non elect, nevertheless they were never appointed to wrath as their counterpart vessels of wrath were 1 Thess 5:9

For God hath not appointed us[the vessels of mercy] to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Even as unbelievers the vessels of mercy are not under Gods wrath at anytime Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
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False since the context are the Jews/ Israel -

Next
 
Those who are currently under Gods wrath in unbelief as Per Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

These are the vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction as Per Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

So they will never become believers since Christ didn't die for their sins, if Christ would have died for their sins, they could not have the

wrath of God abiding on him ! They would be reconciled to God Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
brightfame52 said:
Those who are currently under Gods wrath in unbelief as Per Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

These are the vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction as Per Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

So they will never become believers since Christ didn't die for their sins, if Christ would have died for their sins, they could not have the

wrath of God abiding on him ! They would be reconciled to God Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
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everyone including you are/were under Gods wrath, thats the adamic condition as all are under sin and condemnation.

one is brought under life/salvation by their belief in the gospel.

faith is required by man to be saved. and anyone and everyone can believe the gospel not just the elect/chosen as taught in calvins doctrine.

Bible 101 from John 3:16-18 as taught by Jesus Himself.

next fallacy.
 
brightfame52 said:
Those who are currently under Gods wrath in unbelief as Per Jn 3:36
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Those who are under God's wrath, are not chosen to be under it.

Let me show you just how Satanic Calvinism (TULIP)... actually is... when you simplify it.

Now, here is How Calvinism is describing JESUS.

Notice.

"Lord, will you save me, please forgive my sins"..

"NO !!!!!!!!!!!..NEVER !!!!!!... you are not Chosen to believe in me. !!!!!! "GET AWAY" !!!!!!!!!!

See that?
That is "TULIP".........a "doctrine of Devil's" and people who believe it are deceived and when they teach it they are doing the devil's work.
 
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It is impossible to be consistent when one holds doctrinal error. A long time ago men started believing that the human soul was corrupt at birth. As a result of this false belief, these men had to develop a whole system of theology in order to attempt to be consistent.

In order to make this system of beliefs easier to remember, they called it “TULIP”. Each letter of this word stands for one of their false doctrines. It would be beneficial for us to know of these doctrines because they are highly promoted by false religious teachers around world. The following are the basic teachings of “TULIP”

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Total Hereditary Depravity

“T” stands for Total Hereditary Depravity. This is the core belief of the TULIP doctrine. As a result of this belief all of the other doctrines are created. Put simply, this is the belief that the human soul is born corrupt. As soon as a baby is born, according to this doctrine, it is in sin and in need of a redeemer. In an attempt to support this doctrine they go to Psalm 51:5 and Psalm 58:3 among others. However, notice that in Psalm 51:5, David is not saying that he was born a sinner but rather that he was born into a sinful world. What if the verse read this way, “Behold I was shaped in a potato patch and in a field of spuds did my mother conceive me?” Would this mean that David was born a potato? No, it simply means that he was born in the presence of potatoes. Also, notice that in Psalm 58:3 it says that one goes astray from the mother’s womb. One is not born astray but has to go astray. That verse proves that we are born sinless not sinful!

There are many arguments that show positively that the human soul is not sinful at birth but only when it commits sin. First of all, notice that God gives man his soul (Ecclesiastes 12:7; Zechariah 12:1). Can or would God give a man an evil soul? This would contradict James 1:17 which says that every good and perfect gift comes from God. God does not bring forth evil (Matthew 7:18). Furthermore, why would Jesus have said that the one had to become like a little child to enter into the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 18:1-3). Was he saying that one has to become sinful and depraved in order to go to heaven? Of course not!

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Unconditional Election

As a result of the belief that man is born in a sinful state, another false teaching called Unconditional Election arose. This is our “U” in the TULIP doctrine. They believe that since man is born in such a sinful state, there is nothing that an individual can do in order to be saved. They say that salvation is solely the work of God, not man. After all, we are saved by grace and not works (Romans 3:24). Furthermore, they say that God chooses those who will be saved and those who will be lost.

To answer this doctrine, we have to remember that God’s Word is never going to contradict itself. Having said that; there are to many places that show that man must play a part in his salvation. Peter preached on Pentecost that those present must “save themselves” (Acts 2:40). Further, the Lord said that only those who “do” the will of the Father will see the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21). The Bible teaches that we are going to be judged by our “works” on the last day (2 Corinthians 5:10; John 12:48; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14). If this Unconditional Election were true, there would not need to be a judgment, for God has already decided. Finally, this doctrine makes God unjust because he would be condemning some having never given them a chance to serve him, even if they desired to do so.

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Limited Atonement

Unconditional Election eventually led to the doctrine of Limited Atonement. This is our “L” in the TULIP doctrine. This is simply the belief that Christ only died for those select few whom God had chosen. Thus the atonement for sins given by his death was “limited”. This doctrine is easily proven false. First, the Bible says that Christ died for the ungodly (Romans 5:6). Limited Atonement says that He only died for the godly. John 3:16 tells us that God so loved the “world”. God did not only love a select few but all men (1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9).

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Irresistible Grace

“I” stands for the next doctrine to spring up called Irresistible Grace. This is the belief that the elect (those chosen by God) are going to be saved whether they desire to be or not. This would mean that a man could hate God; even worship Satan, and still be allowed to enter into heaven. Joshua told us that we have the ability to choose whom we will serve (Joshua 24:15). Peter told those on Pentecost to save themselves (Acts 2:40).

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Perseverance Of The Saints

Finally, we come to the “P” which is Perseverance of the Saints. We often hear this doctrine called, “Once saved, always saved”. The Scriptures teach that man has the ability to choose whom he will serve and that his eternal soul will be judged on that choice. No one who believes in “Once saved, always saved” would deny that Paul was one of the “elect”. Yet when we read 1 Corinthians 9:27 we find that he constantly “worked” to stay in that saved condition.

We can also look to Simon the Sorcerer (Acts 8) as one who was saved and then lost. Judas was another. He was given the ability to do miracles like the rest of the disciples (Matthew 10:1). No one can deny that he was saved. Yet we know that he fell away. It will be our actions that will be judged on the judgment day hence, we decide whether we will go to heaven or hell by those actions (2 Corinthians 5:10).

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Calvinism Refuted

Brethren, as believers in God’s inspired Word (2 Timothy 3:16), we need to consistently “refute” the false teaching of “TULIP” (Ephesians 4:14; Colossians 2:4,8; Hebrews 13:9; 1 John 4:1; 2 John 1:9-10).
 
@civic

everyone including you are/were under Gods wrath, thats the adamic condition as all are under sin and condemnation.
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Nobody Christ died for was ever under Gods wrath, they have always been vessels of mercy Rom 923

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
 
@Behold

Those who are under God's wrath, are not chosen to be under it.
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Actually they were, God made them vessels of wrath and fits them for destruction, they have no say so, they are just pots He made to make His Power known Rom 9:18-22

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
 

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