Made lower than the angels means what ?

[civic]

Hebrews 2:7
You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor,

When Jesus for a while was lower than the angel’s He experienced limitations like all men during His earthly ministry up until His death. He did not know the day of His return which is one of the main objections to His Deity by many. But this is just a misunderstanding of His humility as described in Philippians 2 during His state of humiliation. As a man He had limitations just as Scripture and the Hypostatic Union teaches. Christians believe this but we also see where His Deity was on display during His state of humility. He was worshiped, forgave sin, was sinless, called God, gives eternal life etc..........

Now after His Resurrection we see that Jesus is Omnipresent and we know that God alone is Omnipresent. In Matthew 28:19-20 Jesus promises His disciples and all His followers in the future that He would be with them in in them always until the end of the age.

We also see Jesus with Peter in John 21:17 where he told Jesus that He knows all things and only God is All Knowing/Omniscient. Notice Jesus accepts Peters declaration just as He did with Thomas's confession that He is God after the Resurrection in John 20:28.

And finally we see that all creation in heaven worship Him along with the Father on the throne. Rev 5:13-14.

So, while some might object to His Deity during His state of humiliation (Phil 2) one must remember He was fully man and operated as a man under the law fulfilling the law on our behalf as the Kinsman Redeemer.

And after His Resurrection we see the Glorified Christ without His self- limitations displaying His Deity and no longer was it veiled. Thomas confesses He is God; Stephen prays to His Lord upon death and calls out to Jesus. We see Jesus promise His followers He will always be with them another proof of His Deity. And finally, is His exalted state all heaven and the redeemed worship Him as their God and Savior. @sethproton @dizerner

hope this helps!!!

 

[civic]

Who was made a little lower than the angels. - That is, as a man, or when on earth. His assumed rank was inferior to that of the angels. He took upon himself not the nature of angels Hebrews 2:16, but the nature of man. The apostle is probably here answering some implied objections to the rank which it was claimed that the Lord Jesus had, or which might be urged to the views which he was defending. These objections were mainly two. First, that Jesus was a man; and secondly, that he suffered and died. If that was the fact, it was natural to ask how he could be superior to the angels? How could he have had the rank which was claimed for him? This he answers by showing first, that his condition as a man was "voluntarily" assumed - "he was made lower than the angels;" and secondly, by showing that as a consequence of his sufferings and death, he was immediately crowned with glory and honor. This state of humiliation became him in the great work which he had undertaken, and he was immediately exalted to universal dominion, and as Mediator was raised to a rank far above the angels.

For the suffering of death. - Margin, "By." The meaning of the preposition rendered here "for" (διὰ dia, here governing the accusative) is, "on account of;" that is, Jesus on account of the sufferings of death, or in virtue of that, was crowned with glory and honor. His crowning was the result of his condescension and sufferings; see notes, Philippians 2:8-9. It does not here mean, as our translation would seem to imply, that he was made a little lower than the angels in order to suffer death, but that as a reward for having suffered death he was raised up to the right hand of God.Barnes

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

. But we see] Rather, “But we look upon.” The verb used is not ὁρῶμενvidemus as in the previous verse, but βλέπομεν cernimus (as in Hebrews 3:19). In accordance with the order of the original the verse should be rendered “But we look upon Him who has been, for a little while, made low in comparison of angels—even Jesus—on account of the suffering of death crowned, &c.”

who was made a little lower than the angels] This alludes to the temporal (“for a little while”) and voluntary humiliation of the Incarnate Lord. See Php 2:7-11. For a short time Christ was liable to agony and death from which angels are exempt; and even to the “intolerable indignity” of the grave.

for the suffering of death] Rather, “because of the suffering of death.” The Via crucis was the appointed via lucis(comp. Hebrews 5:7-10, Hebrews 7:26, Hebrews 9:12). This truth—that the sufferings of Christ were the willing path of His perfectionment as the “Priest upon his throne” (Zechariah 6:13)—is brought out more distinctly in this than in any other Epistle.

crowned with glory and honour] Into the nature of this glory it was needless and hardly possible to enter. “On His head were many crowns” (Revelation 19:12).Cambridge

hope this helps !!!

 

[alan]

Hebrews 2:7
You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor,

When Jesus for a while was lower than the angel’s He experienced limitations like all men during His earthly ministry up until His death. He did not know the day of His return which is one of the main objections to His Deity by many. But this is just a misunderstanding of His humility as described in Philippians 2 during His state of humiliation. As a man He had limitations just as Scripture and the Hypostatic Union teaches. Christians believe this but we also see where His Deity was on display during His state of humility. He was worshiped, forgave sin, was sinless, called God, gives eternal life etc..........

Now after His Resurrection we see that Jesus is Omnipresent and we know that God alone is Omnipresent. In Matthew 28:19-20 Jesus promises His disciples and all His followers in the future that He would be with them in in them always until the end of the age.

We also see Jesus with Peter in John 21:17 where he told Jesus that He knows all things and only God is All Knowing/Omniscient. Notice Jesus accepts Peters declaration just as He did with Thomas's confession that He is God after the Resurrection in John 20:28.

And finally we see that all creation in heaven worship Him along with the Father on the throne. Rev 5:13-14.

So, while some might object to His Deity during His state of humiliation (Phil 2) one must remember He was fully man and operated as a man under the law fulfilling the law on our behalf as the Kinsman Redeemer.

And after His Resurrection we see the Glorified Christ without His self- limitations displaying His Deity and no longer was it veiled. Thomas confesses He is God; Stephen prays to His Lord upon death and calls out to Jesus. We see Jesus promise His followers He will always be with them another proof of His Deity. And finally, is His exalted state all heaven and the redeemed worship Him as their God and Savior. @sethproton @dizerner

hope this helps!!!

Are there some who take the passage to meant that Jesus was not God?

 

[civic]

Are there some who take the passage to meant that Jesus was not God?

Yes certain groups or people use this to say He was no longer God during His time walking this earth and it’s used by those who are called “ Kenosis “ meaning He emptied Himself of His Deity. Of course that’s not true as He remained completely God and lacked nothing in His Deity, it was veiled or hidden from most everyone except those He chose to reveal Himself to.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Wrangler]

This he answers by showing first, that his condition as a man was "voluntarily" assumed - "he was made lower than the angels;"

Hmmm. With all due respect, you are reading ‘voluntarily’ into the text. The text is explicit that Christ was a created Being, he was MADE.

That HOW of his being made, lower, is not first but second.

Who MADE Jesus one way or another? Certainly not himself for this is not how language is used. When using passive language, ‘I was MADE to apologize’ implied a greater power and authority did Create that circumstance.

This is entirely different than the active tense; ‘I baked a cake’ is how language is used to simply mean I did the act. ‘Was made’ to bake a cake means more than I did the act; it means another greater power and authority commanded it be so - possibly even against my will.

And this is critical in understanding Christ. It was NOT his will that he die a brutal death. That is the only reason he asked God to take the bitter cup from him. The fact that he submitted, obeyed is NOT to be construed to mean the same as he voluntarily did it. Submission means the surrender of your will, THE EXACT OPPOSITE of acting on your voluntary will.

Now, one could suppose one ‘submits’ ‘voluntarily.’ But this is just word games indistinguishable in practice to submitting under duress. Safe to say, Jesus physiological symptoms show he submitted under duress.

IMO, this brings more glory to Christ. He humbly submitted to God even though he did not want to. This is greater humility than convincing ourselves of contradictions; that Jesus ‘voluntarily’ submitted under great duress. YMMV.

 

[civic]

Hmmm. With all due respect, you are reading ‘voluntarily’ into the text. The text is explicit that Christ was a created Being, he was MADE.

That HOW of his being made, lower, is not first but second.

Who MADE Jesus one way or another? Certainly not himself for this is not how language is used. When using passive language, ‘I was MADE to apologize’ implied a greater power and authority did Create that circumstance.

This is entirely different than the active tense; ‘I baked a cake’ is how language is used to simply mean I did the act. ‘Was made’ to bake a cake means more than I did the act; it means another greater power and authority commanded it be so - possibly even against my will.

And this is critical in understanding Christ. It was NOT his will that he die a brutal death. That is the only reason he asked God to take the bitter cup from him. The fact that he submitted, obeyed is NOT to be construed to mean the same as he voluntarily did it. Submission means the surrender of your will, THE EXACT OPPOSITE of acting on your voluntary will.

Now, one could suppose one ‘submits’ ‘voluntarily.’ But this is just word games indistinguishable in practice to submitting under duress. Safe to say, Jesus physiological symptoms show he submitted under duress.

IMO, this brings more glory to Christ. He humbly submitted to God even though he did not want to. This is greater humility than convincing ourselves of contradictions; that Jesus ‘voluntarily’ submitted under great duress. YMMV.

Phil 2 says it was His decision which is a parallel passage

 

[Wrangler]

Phil 2 says it was His decision which is a parallel passage

That's all you have to say in response to what I wrote? Of course, the decision to obey or not, submit or not is decision one makes but to say it is voluntary is to deny that not all decision are voluntary.

 

[civic]

That's all you have to say in response to what I wrote? Of course, the decision to obey or not, submit or not is decision one makes but to say it is voluntary is to deny that not all decision are voluntary.

His decision to leave heavens glory where He was with the Father before creation(John 17:5). And become a man ( Phil 2) where we see His condescension( humiliation) became a man ( lower in rank than the angels , made lower ) from Hebrews 2 and suffered death . Angels do not die like man from sin.

Bible 101 and it fits together like a perfect puzzle . Your view is more like scrabble . It does not fit together but scripture opposed scripture whereas with trinitarianism it all synchronized.

 

[synergy]

Hmmm. With all due respect, you are reading ‘voluntarily’ into the text. The text is explicit that Christ was a created Being, he was MADE.

That HOW of his being made, lower, is not first but second.

(Heb 2:7) You have made (ηλαττωσας) him a little lower than the angels. You crowned him with glory and honor and set him over the works of Your hands.

Strong's definition of the root word of ηλαττωσας, which is ἐλάσσων, is to lessen (in rank or influence): - decrease, make lower.

That verse has nothing to do with the false ontological idea that the Word of God (Jesus) "was a created Being".

Who MADE Jesus one way or another? Certainly not himself for this is not how language is used. When using passive language, ‘I was MADE to apologize’ implied a greater power and authority did Create that circumstance.

This is entirely different than the active tense; ‘I baked a cake’ is how language is used to simply mean I did the act. ‘Was made’ to bake a cake means more than I did the act; it means another greater power and authority commanded it be so - possibly even against my will.

And this is critical in understanding Christ. It was NOT his will that he die a brutal death. That is the only reason he asked God to take the bitter cup from him. The fact that he submitted, obeyed is NOT to be construed to mean the same as he voluntarily did it. Submission means the surrender of your will, THE EXACT OPPOSITE of acting on your voluntary will.

Now, one could suppose one ‘submits’ ‘voluntarily.’ But this is just word games indistinguishable in practice to submitting under duress. Safe to say, Jesus physiological symptoms show he submitted under duress.

IMO, this brings more glory to Christ. He humbly submitted to God even though he did not want to. This is greater humility than convincing ourselves of contradictions; that Jesus ‘voluntarily’ submitted under great duress. YMMV.

(John 10:17) Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I might take it again.
(John 10:18) No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down from Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. I have received this commandment from My Father.

Jesus voluntarily layed down His life based on the full authority that He received from His Father.

 

[Wrangler]

Your view is more like scrabble

Nothing you wrote even remotely addresses what I said.

It's so bizarre to take away glory from Jesus. Jesus was made to do something means it was not voluntary. But your eyes are closed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obedience_(human_behavior)

 

[Wrangler]

(Heb 2:7) You have made (ηλαττωσας) him a little lower than the angels. You crowned him with glory and honor and set him over the works of Your hands.

Strong's definition of the root word of ηλαττωσας, which is ἐλάσσων, is to lessen (in rank or influence): - decrease, make lower.

That verse has nothing to do with the false ontological idea that he "was a created Being".

You are not claiming that this suggested Jesus was a self-made man, are you? It's so funny and predictable how trinitarians retreat into another language AS IF that will salvage their doctrine. Notice how your strong's reference includes the word "make?" No matter how you figure it, Jesus was made. From https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/made

made​

1 of 2​

Synonyms of made​

past tense and past participle of MAKE entry 1​

​

made​

​

2 of 2​

adjective​

ˈmād ​

1​

a​

: FICTITIOUS, INVENTED​

a made excuse​

b​

: artificially produced​

c​

: put together of various ingredients​

How many times does Scripture have to say that Jesus was made, meaning produced, procreated, created? Acts 2:36 says the same thing, God has made Jesus both Lord and Messiah. English comprehension questions:

1. Who was MADE? Jesus.
2. Who MADE Jesus? God - in his unitarian nature.

Is there a Strong's definition rebuttal? Jesus was MADE lower than the angels AND MADE Lord and Messiah. This is a reading comprehension failure you repeatedly make; regardless of the propositional phrase that follows, the ontological fact is that Jesus was made - as all sons are - and God gave Jesus the revelation in REV 1:1. This is true by definition, logic, language usage and explicit Scripture.

It's so funny how you abuse definitions at every turn, then pull out this distraction AS IF an authority on definitions. In any language, Jesus was made, which means a created Being. Only your doctrine prevents you from admitting what is obvious.

 

[synergy]

You are not claiming that this suggested Jesus was a self-made man, are you?

How did you ever come up with an idea like that? I never said anything to that effect. Explain yourself.

It's so funny and predictable how trinitarians retreat into another language AS IF that will salvage their doctrine. Notice how your strong's reference includes the word "make?" No matter how you figure it, Jesus was made. From https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/made

made​

1 of 2​

Synonyms of made​

past tense and past participle of MAKE entry 1​

​

made​

​

2 of 2​

adjective​

ˈmād ​

1​

a​

: FICTITIOUS, INVENTED​

a made excuse​

b​

: artificially produced​

c​

: put together of various ingredients​

You just tossed the Koine Greek NT out the window without even so much as a thought about that. Typical response. Run Unitarian Run from the Koine Greek words and from Strong's definition of that Greek word.

How many times does Scripture have to say that Jesus was made, meaning produced, procreated, created? Acts 2:36 says the same thing, God has made Jesus both Lord and Messiah. English comprehension questions:

1. Who was MADE? Jesus.
2. Who MADE Jesus? God - in his unitarian nature.

Finally, a Bible verse from you. Miracles never cease.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God made (εποιησεν) this same Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Actually, there's no need to appeal to the Koine Greek in this case. That is correct. God did make Jesus both Lord and Christ. In similar fashion to how God granted full authority to Jesus to lay down His life (John 10:17-18) God granted Jesus full authority to be Lord and Christ. This has nothing to do with with your false ontological idea that the Word of God (Jesus) "was a created Being".

Is there a Strong's definition rebuttal? Jesus was MADE lower than the angels AND MADE Lord and Messiah. This is a reading comprehension failure you repeatedly make; regardless of the propositional phrase that follows, the ontological fact is that Jesus was made - as all sons are - and God gave Jesus the revelation in REV 1:1. This is true by definition, logic, language usage and explicit Scripture.

God authorized Jesus to pass on revelations, that Jesus received from God, to John because Jesus is our Mediator, not because of your anti-Biblical idea that Jesus knows nothing of the Father. See John 7:29, Matt 11:27, etc...

It's so funny how you abuse definitions at every turn, then pull out this distraction AS IF an authority on definitions. In any language, Jesus was made, which means a created Being. Only your doctrine prevents you from admitting what is obvious.

Run Utilitarian Run from having to explain why you accuse me of things I never said, from all the Koine Greek verses, and having to explain why you toss out Bible phrases like "to declare to His servants things which must shortly come to pass" in Rev 1:1.

 

[Wrangler]

You just tossed the Koine Greek NT out the window without even so much as a thought about that.

I'm OK with that. I speak English! I am Groot.

 

[Wrangler]

Run Unitarian Run from the Koine Greek words and from Strong's definition of that Greek word.

I'm not running. If you do not find humor in YOU RUNNING to a foreign language, only to find MAKE in the definition, which strenthens my point, get yourself a sense of humor friend.

 

[Wrangler]

Actually, there's no need to appeal to the Koine Greek in this case.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Wrangler]

That is correct. God did make Jesus both Lord and Christ. In similar fashion to how God granted full authority to Jesus to lay down His life (John 10:17-18) God granted Jesus full authority to be Lord and Christ. This has nothing to do with with your false ontological idea that the Word of God (Jesus) "was a created Being".

So, your theory is that you can make a person but that does not create them.

 

[Wrangler]

God authorized Jesus to pass on revelations

So much of what you write is spot on, awares you are of the juxtaposing's significance on destroying the trinity.

Even though you are paraphrasing here and failing to aknowledge Scripture says nothing about authorizing here. Twice God gave Jesus.

1. Once to the world to save it. John 3:16
2. Once to show to his servants things that must happen soon. Rev 1:1

It is not "the Father" who gave Jesus, made Jesus, authorized Jesus; it was God - in his unitarian nature. Just as you confessed in this post. Thanks!

 

[Wrangler]

Run Utilitarian Run from having to explain why you accuse me of things I never said, from all the Koine Greek verses, and having to explain why you toss out Bible phrases like "to declare to His servants things which must shortly come to pass" in Rev 1:1.

I kind of wish you and other trinitarians would stop declaring victory in the face of your own defeat.

Once again, I am not running. An interesting analysis of Rev 1:1 regarding agency. Worldwide English (New Testament)
1 God showed these things to Jesus Christ to show to his servants. These are things that must happen soon. Then God sent his angel and showed them to John, his servant.

God to his agent and servant Jesus.
Then God to his other agent and servant, his angel.
Then God to his other agent and servant, John.

God in his unitarian nature --> Jesus --> Angel --> John --> Remaining Saints, including you and me.

 

[Redeemed]

I read this this morning during my devotions and when I saw this thread I thought it might fit right in.

For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor.—Psalms 8:1, 3–5 It’s no wonder that this particular psalm has been a favorite of men and women through the ages. For one thing, it expresses how we all feel at one time or another (hopefully quite often). God has set His glory above the heavens. We peer into the sky and we know that, as majestic as the view may be, there is something beyond—something above all that we see and feel. I believe that’s the essence of wonder—the “aha” in our awe.

That’s because God has encompassed creation with His glory.The night sky casts a divine, pensive spell over us, as people have found through the ages; God designed it to do so. David the psalmist, who gazed out upon those stars during so many nights of watching over his sheep, must have continually marveled. And he must have realized who was watching over him. As he considered his Lord, according to the psalm, he finally was brought to consider himself. “Who am I that I would be worthy of even a thin moment of Your attention?” he wondered. “I look upon the crown of Your creation, and I wonder: How is it that You could place a crown upon me?”

For David, of course, a royal destiny did beckon. But true worship has this effect upon us: It simultaneously humbles and uplifts us. In other words, worship places us exactly where we should be, in the realization that we are small, yet a little lower than the angels; we are tiny creatures in the presence of God, but tiny creatures whom He adores.The Bible, then, is more than a wonderful book—it’s a book full of wonder. It begins with the wonder of creation, implanted deeply within us. It ends with the wonderful culmination of God’s final judgment. And in the very center, with the psalms, are songs of praise and wonder. His central written revelation to us is just as crammed with heaven as creation itself. But the challenge is this: We are flawed, fallen creatures, prone to pluck at forbidden fruit rather than bask in worship as God designed us. How do we confront these limitations?

David Jeremiah, My Heart’s Desire: Living Every Moment in the Wonder of Worship