civic
Active Member
Agreed He has always been Impeccable
Kirk Cameron and annihilationism
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civic
Active Member
Don’t you know man in that verse really means spirit , incorporeal and Paul made a mistake. But there are those that are actually really saying such things even though they would ever admit it.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I suppose that actually in the long scheme of things what one believes on this is not overly important.
I only know that Jesus told them they would drink of the cup together when they were all together. I take Him at His word.
I have a curiosity of thing that go bump in the night, so it is quite easy for me to believe what is writtten.
Speaking of spirits...... anyone ever wonder about those
Matt 27:
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Not all came out but they were visible enough for those who saw them to see them....
@Jim... were these simply spirit in clothing or were they with body?
I have never met anyone who reads the text/narrative and doesn't see what they want to believe or what their ideas already are in those theological areas which they consider key to those beliefs. It is the natural thing to do. It is the principal reason that there are Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Baptists, Catholics, and whatever you claim to be. @civic, whether you admit it or not, you are as guilty of that as most. That you don't realize that you do that is only a good indication that you do that. That high horse you think you are riding as some pretty short legs.
AaronH
Active Member
This is a vaguely western theory of jurisprudence (emphasis on "vaguely") found nowhere in the bible. But I admit it does sound nice and tidy when you hear it for the first time and haven't yet had a chance to think about it.
Psalm 51:4 doesn't support the notion in any way. Few, if any, humans would penalize someone in such a way. Perhaps the most demented of the most wretched of the worst of humanity would wish their worst enemy to be locked in a place of eternal torment forever.
Man is far more merciful than God in the ECT view.
I have not, intentionally, said He no longer has a body. But I have said that He no longer has a physical body.
It doesn't say that anywhere.
Of course after being raised after His death and burial. But that body is never call anything but the same old body He had when He was crucified.
The words, "after ascension" are not there.
Like the body He has now. A body that John said has not yet appeared (1 John 3:2).
No, it says He will come back in the same way that they saw him go into heaven.
Any view of anyone in heaven is speculative.
It says what He is has never been seen (1 John 3:2). Where does it say that His body was glorified?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Yep. Glad we have the record from God!
What a Glorious Savior is He.
That is why John said "We beheld His GLORY.... full of Grace and Truth.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
It was true and well written. I suppose you're not a Trinitarian? Trinitarians understand this.
I've admitted struggling with ECT but not in this sense.
Man is more merciful because he hasn't experienced the seemingly endless rejection of mankind like God has....
Think about it for a little bit. You're God.... and YOU are the only reason anything at all exists. You've even empowered mankind to build their own ways throughout human history. Even gave them rain when they didn't deserve it to feed their crops. Seeds to sow. Trees to breath. Isolated, men live as kings and yet still forget God.
You send your only Son to show them your humility and kindness... Yet they still endless do the same. Over and over again.
Vengeance is a difficult thing. Vengeance is for Christ rejecters. I don't have a problem with Vengeance. I deserve it. I deserve the wrath of God and He has been so very kind to me.
Man wants to be left alone yet complains when he leaves them alone....It is an endless vicious circle.
Just one question remains.
What would you do differently? That answer will bring you full circle to the inevitable conclusion that "what else could have been done"....
I preached a sermon years ago on the "Riddle of Samson."
Jdg 14:14 And he said unto them, Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness. And they could not in three days expound the riddle.
You'll find the words of this riddle "retreaded" in the book of Revelation.
Rev 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Those who answered the riddle of Samson only knew the answer because of the wife of Samson.
Jdg 14:18 And the men of the city said unto him on the seventh day before the sun went down, What is sweeter than honey? and what is stronger than a lion? And he said unto them, If ye had not plowed with my heifer, ye had not found out my riddle.
There is much bitterness to be found in "digesting" all that God has done for mankind to only have them hate Him for it. To only give Him a meaningless answer that they don't understand themselves. So unconcerned as to walk away from the best there is.....for NOTHING.
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civic
Active Member
correct and still retained the marks from His crucifixion.
People keep claiming that Jesus body was glorified when He was raised from the dead. The bible never says that.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I used this, and still do, in my signature from another forum, and I believe it to be very true.
But not about to get into a discussion about it but my mind aways goes to Babel and when the languages were confounded maybe understanding was too?
"Reading scripture differently from one another I think is also of God." ~ Gabriel_Arch
civic
Active Member
Sure it was thats Pauls point in 1 Corinthians 15 and Philippians 3
Please define what a glorified body consist of.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
So will it be with the resurrection of the dead: What is sown is perishable; it is raised imperishable. / It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. / It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— / in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. / For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this tent we live in—our body here on earth—is torn down, God will have a house in heaven for us to live in, a home he himself has made, which will last forever. 2And now we sigh, so great is our desire that our home which comes from heaven should be put on over us; 3by being clothed with it we shall not be without a body. 4While we live in this earthly tent, we groan with a feeling of oppression; it is not that we want to get rid of our earthly body, but that we want to have the heavenly one put on over us, so that what is mortal will be transformed by life. 5God is the one who has prepared us for this change, and he gave us his Spirit as the guarantee of all that he has in store for us. 6So we are always full of courage. We know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord's home. 7For our life is a matter of faith, not of sight. 8We are full of courage and would much prefer to leave our home in the body and be at home with the Lord. 9More than anything else, however, we want to please him, whether in our home here or there. 10For all of us must appear before Christ, to be judged by him. We will each receive what we deserve, according to everything we have done, good or bad, in our bodily life.
And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, "in my FLESH I shall SEE God" (Job 19:26 )
conclusion: I'll go with the bible on this one- after the worms eat away by dead body in the grave- this I know in my glorified flesh body I will see Jesus when He resurrects me. I will become Immortal, Incorruptible, Imperishable. For then I will be like Him for I shall see Him as He is- Glorified just as the disciples saw Him bodily on the Mount of Transfiguration. A Glorious, glorified human body still remaining fully human having a body, soul, spirit.
hope this helps !!!
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Morning Jim,
Philippians 3:20–21
20,For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:21,Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Key point:
Paul says Jesus already has a “glorious body.” Ours will be made like His
So whatever body Jesus has now = resurrection model.
Since He received that body at resurrection, that means the resurrection body is the glorified body.
You are correct that no scripture says Hey look, see the glorified body of our savior, but reason has it that the very fact that he walked out of a tomb that had a huge stone in front of it that also had a guard, or two and they did not see him should speak volumes that either in his glorified body he could walk through stone or he left as he was invisible.
Now if that be the case, I would say that when Mary clung to his feet upon finally recognizing him and he told her not to cling to him as he had not yet ascended was because he was in the process right then and there of bodily conversion. No I cannot prove.
I will stick with Phil 3:21.
But I wonder why this bothers you so much...?
You know how a baby is made. It takes an egg and sperm, and there was no sperm used for making Jesus.
This unknow does not bother you??????????/
civic
Active Member
we are dealing with the same gnostic thought the Apostles dealt with in their writings in the N.T. Both Paul and John were combating their false teachings about the body/flesh in their letters.
No, it is not, I think you do not quite understand that there is a difference between someone, even Jesus, being raised from the dead and the resurrection at the end of the age when Jesus returns. In being raised from the dead as was Jesus, Lazarus, Tabitha, etc., the spirit is reunited with the body of the one who died. In the resurrection at the end of the age, for all but a very, very few their bodies no longer even exist. Those bodies have long since have been decomposed, the molecules having been consumed and used in other ways and some of the mass converted into energy of one form or another.
You are the one making a claim for glorified bodies, you define it. That phrase, "glorified body" doesn't even exist anywhere in the bible. There isn't even a suggestion of such a thing. That is but another of those concepts that some have made up and is of the type you complained about in your reply @515.
You are extrapolating your belief that Jesus has remained a human being, body and all, even now as He is in heaven. You have assumed that in His ascension, He has retained a physical human body. Scripture doesn't say that.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
And without a Dick sees Jane run elemetary statement, some people just are incapable of understanding or do not want to for whatever reason. It is obvious they only put into the 66 books what seemed important at the time... otherwise we all still might be reading Genesis1 and 2.... due to length...
When Phil 3:21 says 21,Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
I dont know how to make one understand.
