Kirk Cameron and annihilationism

[praise_yeshua]

What? You think my dog has a spirit? You think he is a spiritual being?

He/she has a spirit that is common to dogs. He doesn't have one like your spirit.

You should learn the Greek OT. That verse in the Greek OT presents a question. It an appeal with the vanity of our human existence.

That dog you think has no value was subjected to man's vanity. Unwilling subjected "TOGETHER" in hope.

When you see the suffering of an animal, do you even care? I can tell you. Adam cared.

 

[Jim]

He/she has a spirit that is common to dogs. He doesn't have one like your spirit.

I don't think so.

 

[FreeInChrist]

A spirit is the defining difference between the human and all the rest of the animal kingdom.

Not exactly ... at least not biblically or biologically.

Let's look into this, Biblically​

Scripture does not teach that only humans have a “spirit.”

In fact:

Ecclesiastes 3:19–21

“Man has no advantage over the animals… they all have the same breath (ruach)… Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?”


FACT:
The Hebrew word ruach (spirit/breath/life-force) is used for both humans and animals.

So we have...

Animals = life spirit/breath from God while

Humans = life spirit plus something more

What actually makes humans different biblically?​

The Bible points to the image of God, not merely “spirit.”

Genesis 1:26–27

26. Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

27.God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.


What that includes is,

moral awareness
rational thought
self-reflection
capacity for worship
covenant relationship with God
eternal accountability

Animals are alive by God’s breath, but they are not image-bearers.

Think of it this way....


“What uniquely distinguishes humans is not merely having a spirit, but being created in the image of God with moral, rational, and spiritual capacity to know and relate to Him.”

“Animals have life-breath, but humans uniquely bear God’s image.”

​

So the next time you hear or read someone questioning ....Do animals have spirit/breath?
You can definitively answer Yes... Eccl 3:19-21

Eccl 3:19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity.

3:20 All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.

3:21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and the spirit of the animal descends into the earth?

 

[Jim]

Not exactly ... at least not biblically or biologically.

Let's look into this, Biblically​

Scripture does not teach that only humans have a “spirit.”

In fact:

Ecclesiastes 3:19–21

“Man has no advantage over the animals… they all have the same breath (ruach)… Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?”


FACT:
The Hebrew word ruach (spirit/breath/life-force) is used for both humans and animals.

So we have...

Animals = life spirit/breath from God while

Humans = life spirit plus something more

What actually makes humans different biblically?​

The Bible points to the image of God, not merely “spirit.”

Genesis 1:26–27

26. Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

27.God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.


What that includes is,

moral awareness
rational thought
self-reflection
capacity for worship
covenant relationship with God
eternal accountability

Animals are alive by God’s breath, but they are not image-bearers.

Think of it this way....


“What uniquely distinguishes humans is not merely having a spirit, but being created in the image of God with moral, rational, and spiritual capacity to know and relate to Him.”

“Animals have life-breath, but humans uniquely bear God’s image.”

​

So the next time you hear or read someone questioning ....Do animals have spirit/breath?
You can definitively answer Yes... Eccl 3:19-21

Eccl 3:19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity.

3:20 All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.

3:21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and the spirit of the animal descends into the earth?

Whatever Solomon intended with his mention of "spirit of the beast", it would seem not be anything similar to the spirit of man, given that it is in the spirit of man that man is in the image of God. I will hold to my view of the spirit of man being the distinguishing feature between man and animals.

 

[civic]

I have never said otherwise.

Sure you have since you deny the clear teaching from the oldest writing in the bible which affirms we will see God after we die physically in a physical body of flesh.

Job 19:26
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

 

[civic]

Even Isaiah affirms a physical, bodily, flesh resurrection


Isaiah 26:19
Your dead will live; their bodies will rise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust! For your dew is like the dew of the morning, and the earth will bring forth her dead.

AMEN !!!

The bible is consistent from cover to cover on the bodily resurrection of the saints. From the oldest writings of Jod to the newest writings of John the Apostle.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jim]

Sure you have since you deny the clear teaching from the oldest writing in the bible which affirms we will see God after we die physically in a physical body of flesh.

Job 19:26
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Even Isaiah affirms a physical, bodily, flesh resurrection


Isaiah 26:19
Your dead will live; their bodies will rise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust! For your dew is like the dew of the morning, and the earth will bring forth her dead.

AMEN !!!

The bible is consistent from cover to cover on the bodily resurrection of the saints. From the oldest writings of Jod to the newest writings of John the Apostle.

hope this helps !!!

1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 

[FreeInChrist]

1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

But what does it say about Glorified?

 

[civic]

1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

yes that affirms what both Job and Isaiah said that I also affirm- a bodily Resurrection.

 

[civic]

But what does it say about Glorified?

Jesus Resurrection is a stumbling block for gnosticism. He rose bodily having real flesh and bones- His body was glorified when He was raised from the dead, Incorruptible/ Imperishable as 1 Corinthians 15:1-58 declares.

 

[civic]

A discussion between a Christian and a Gnostic below - sounds familiar :

Matt: Flesh and blood . . . true, an idiom for sinful flesh. However, after the resurrection, Jesus said he had flesh and bones (Luke 24:39) He had risen from the dead in his physical body . . . He was god in flesh.
Gnostic: He walked through doors . . . his disciples couldn’t recognize him on the road to Emmaus . . . His post-resurrection body was different, it shifted forms, it was not like his pre-resurrection body . . . even according to the canonical gospels.
Matt: He did not walk through doors. He simply appeared in a room.
Gnostic: Can a physical body simply translocate itself?
Matt: Jesus said he would raise his body in John 2:19-21 . . . he retained the scars after his resurrection. It was the same body. 1 Cor. 15:20-58 (When converting the site to a CMS (Content Management System) format, I added “:20-58” to the scripture reference so that the scripture bot would pit it up and the reader would be able to see the text. Matt Slick 12/3/08.) speaks of a resurrected body. It is different, yet it is the same body–only resurrected.
Gnostic: It also speaks of two bodies, a spiritual body, and a physical body.
Matt: Yes . . . but take it with all of the Bible . . . they are the same thing . . . like a butterfly was once a caterpillar . . . they are the same life-only transformed.
Gnostic: Yes, I would agree with you absolutely that that is what Paul is ultimately teaching. I am just using his metaphor as a jumping-off point but I would go beyond it and say that they are two different things.
Matt: But to do that is an error. . . I mean, no offense. Jesus said he’d raise the same body he died in. He did.
Gnostic: And that resurrection can only take place when the spirit is free from the flesh, free from the pain and the pleasures of physical existence . . . and that separation of spirit from flesh at the crucifixion is how a Gnostic would describe Jesus’ resurrection.
Matt: He retained the scars . . . it was the same body . . . yet he was able to do ‘weird’ stuff.
Gnostic: Not a resurrection of a mass of flesh and sinful temptations, but a rising of the spirit up out of the physical nature.
Matt: That isn’t what Jesus said about his own body. Why would it be different for others? He is, after all, the first fruits of the resurrection.
Gnostic: Yes! and just as he shed physicality and arose as a “life-giving” spirit, so will we . . . he is the prototype of our “resurrection”, of our ascension past the flesh.
Matt: But he rose in the same physical body he died in. John 2:19-21 prophesied that. Jesus said it.
Gnostic: No, but Gnostics never accepted most of the canonical scriptures as actually being the word of God.
Matt: Why not?
Gnostic: Well, that is a primary difference in our beliefs.
Matt: Canonicity is another subject.
Gnostic: The life that he gives us is the capacity to move beyond the temptations and pleasures and pain of mortal existence.
Matt: Wait for a second, please.
Gnostic: Sure.
Matt: How do you handle Jesus’ own words that he would raise His own body from the dead? He even told Thomas to stick his finger in His hands and into His side . . . He still had the wounds . . . It was his body—the same one.
Gnostic: I don’t believe Jesus uttered those words. I find the statement blasphemous, just as you would not believe that Jesus said some of the things written down in Gnostic gospels, I am sure.
Matt: It is in the Bible recorded by those who knew him. So, then, you’re accusing John the apostle of being a liar?
Gnostic: sorry I’m going to have to run. Take care, God bless.

 

[civic]

This is good from Swindolls insight for living site

The Gnostics (pronounced näs-tik) were some of the earliest heretics to infiltrate the church with their poisonous doctrines, arising shortly after the gospel began penetrating the Roman world near the Mediterranean Sea in the first century. The word Gnosticism comes from the Greek word gnosis, meaning “knowledge.” The Gnostics believed there was a mysterious or secret knowledge reserved for those with true understanding, leading to the salvation of the soul. Spiritual salvation was of preeminence to the Gnostics because they thought the human spirit was naturally good and was entrapped or imprisoned in the body, which was naturally evil or merely an illusion. Their goal, therefore, was to free the spirit from its embodied prison, and the only key to unlock the prison doors was the mysterious knowledge they possessed.

This radical distinction between our bodies and our spirits led Gnostics to twist the early church’s understanding of who Jesus was and is. The Gnostics saw Jesus as a messenger bringing the special knowledge of salvation to humanity’s imprisoned soul. They believed that when Jesus came to earth He didn’t possess a body like our own; instead, the Gnostics taught that He only seemed to have a physical body (known as the heresy of “docetism,” from the Greek verb “to seem”). This was a denial of the Christian doctrine of the incarnation—the belief that Jesus was both fully God and fully human. But the Gnostics went even further: they also denied the bodily resurrection of Jesus, an event Paul argued must have taken place or our faith is in vain (1 Corinthians 15:12–14, 16–17, 42–44).

The implications of these Gnostic beliefs had profound effects on the church. Not only did the Gnostics successfully deceive some people in the church into becoming Gnostic themselves, but their misleading ideas about how Christians should live crept into some church teaching. In practice, some Christians came to the false conclusion that they must literally beat their bodies into submission and live such ascetic lives that they never allowed themselves the enjoyment of bodily pleasures. Others went to the opposite extreme and permitted their physical passions to run whatever course they chose. Those in this second group justified their libertine lifestyles with the erroneous notion that their evil bodies were destined for destruction anyway, while their spirits, which they believed were good, would remain unharmed.

Unfortunately, traces of Gnostic thought continue to permeate the thinking of many well-meaning Christians today. For example, some Christians think that only two things will last into eternity: God’s Word and the souls of men and women—an emphasis on the spiritual and an exclusion of the physical. But this is wrong. The Bible explicitly teaches that not only will these two last into eternity but so will our bodies, in a glorified state (John 5:28–29; 1 Corinthians 15:42–44).

The implication that the spirit is more important than the body is the reason why an answer of “true” to any question in our quiz is incorrect. James warns us that “pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world” (James 1:27). However, don’t make the mistake that believing the converse is true either, that the body is more important than the spirit. Both have equal importance in the eyes of God. Paul said, “Whether . . . you eat or drink or whatever you do [including praying and sharing the gospel], do all to the glory of God” (1 Corinthians 10:31). So let’s glorify God by correcting any warped ideas that our minds—the spiritual part of us—are more important than matter—the physical part of us.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Jesus Resurrection is a stumbling block for gnosticism. He rose bodily having real flesh and bones- His body was glorified when He was raised from the dead, Incorruptible/ Imperishable as 1 Corinthians 15:1-58 declares.

Good morning @civic.

The thing that drives me the most nuts is this. We have a Heavenly Father who was able to design the entire universe ( actually as many as 10^10^16 possible universes.) ( whether from big bang or His sitting up there in eternity past with His giant blueprint paper, Giant Lincoln Logs, Giant Modeling Clay, and Giant Chemistry set)
and He designed every thing from Gnats, to Dandelions, to Pig Weed and Nutsedges and roses, and orchids, and towering Redwoods in CA to miniature Bonsai trees and bugs and insects, and animals, and reptiles, and dinosaurs, and Chickens and Cows and assorted mankind of two(2) genders only and great meats to eat, and great veggies to eat and how like kinds can reproduce with all the complexities of life, and sent us a savior who died for our sins , and was buried... yet was resurrected and after that was able to actually appear to some alive, and even walk through closed doors, who during life raised people from the dead........etc, etc, etc.

Yet now there are those who doubt that what was said in the Holy Words about whether or not a spirit can have a glorified body in heaven AS IF OUR HEAVENLY FATHER CANNOT MAKE IT HAPPEN..... is actually true.

How can they doubt.... any of it?

I bet if David Copperfield, Doug Henning and Harry Houdini were performing their their acts they all would walk away just wondering if there could be some speel allowing some of it to happen, and that the very least they all would be given standing ovations....YET

Our heavenly father is doubted most likely because "science" has not been able to replicate our Fathers works other then Dolly the Sheep....

 

[Jim]

- His body was glorified when He was raised from the dead, Incorruptible/ Imperishable as 1 Corinthians 15:1-58 declares.

If you think that is said in those verses, please point out the specific verse or verses that say that. Yes He was raised from the dead but nothing there speaks of the condition of Jesus body when He was raised

Lazarus was raised from the dead (John 11) and nothing is ever said about him being incorruptible or imperishable. Jarius' daughter in Luke 8 was raised from the dead and nothing there is said about her being incorruptible or imperishable; the same for Tabitha (Dorcus) in Acts 9 or Eutychus in Acts 20. There is a difference between being raised from the dead and the resurrection of the dead when Jesus returns.

In the gosples, the word "resurrection" appears 26 times (NASB), And in every case, the word comes from the Greek word ἀνάστασις [anastasis] in every instance except one. That one is speaking of Jesus' resurrection and uses the Greek word
ἔγερσις [egersis]. In all cases except the one speaking of Jesus' resurrection, the resurrection being spoken of is the resurrection at the end of the age. That is not happenstance.

 

[civic]

If you think that is said in those verses, please point out the specific verse or verses that say that. Yes He was raised from the dead but nothing there speaks of the condition of Jesus body when He was raised

Lazarus was raised from the dead (John 11) and nothing is ever said about him being incorruptible or imperishable. Jarius' daughter in Luke 8 was raised from the dead and nothing there is said about her being incorruptible or imperishable; the same for Tabitha (Dorcus) in Acts 9 or Eutychus in Acts 20. There is a difference between being raised from the dead and the resurrection of the dead when Jesus returns.

In the gosples, the word "resurrection" appears 26 times (NASB), And in every case, the word comes from the Greek word ἀνάστασις [anastasis] in every instance except one. That one is speaking of Jesus' resurrection and uses the Greek word
ἔγερσις [egersis]. In all cases except the one speaking of Jesus' resurrection, the resurrection being spoken of is the resurrection at the end of the age. That is not happenstance.

Read 1 Cor- Jesus was the first raised incorruptible

 

[FreeInChrist]

If you think that is said in those verses, please point out the specific verse or verses that say that. Yes He was raised from the dead but nothing there speaks of the condition of Jesus body when He was raised

Resurrection Body ​

1. Luke 24:39 – “Handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”
   Shows He had a tangible, physical body.
2. John 20:27 – “Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side…”
   Wounds visible, body solid, contact allowed.
3. Matthew 28:9 – “They came and held him by the feet…”
   Physical interaction, normal human touch.
4. Luke 24:41–43 – He ate food in front of them.
   Demonstrates bodily function, not a spirit.
5. John 20:19 / Luke 24:31 – Appeared in locked rooms and vanished.
   Shows transformed, glorified abilities.

Philippians 3:21 – Christ’s body is already glorious; ours will be fashioned like it.
This confirms His resurrection body is already glorified.

“Luke 24:39 says Jesus had flesh and bones, John 20:27 shows His wounds were touchable, and Luke 24:42–43 shows He ate food—clearly His resurrection body was physical and already glorified.”

Lazarus was raised from the dead (John 11) and nothing is ever said about him being incorruptible or imperishable. Jarius' daughter in Luke 8 was raised from the dead and nothing there is said about her being incorruptible or imperishable; the same for Tabitha (Dorcus) in Acts 9 or Eutychus in Acts 20. There is a difference between being raised from the dead and the resurrection of the dead when Jesus returns.

In the gosples, the word "resurrection" appears 26 times (NASB), And in every case, the word comes from the Greek word ἀνάστασις [anastasis] in every instance except one. That one is speaking of Jesus' resurrection and uses the Greek word
ἔγερσις [egersis]. In all cases except the one speaking of Jesus' resurrection, the resurrection being spoken of is the resurrection at the end of the age. That is not happenstance.

 

[Jim]

Read 1 Cor- Jesus was the first raised incorruptible

Prove it.

 

[Jim]

Resurrection Body ​

1. Luke 24:39 – “Handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”
   Shows He had a tangible, physical body.
2. John 20:27 – “Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side…”
   Wounds visible, body solid, contact allowed.
3. Matthew 28:9 – “They came and held him by the feet…”
   Physical interaction, normal human touch.
4. Luke 24:41–43 – He ate food in front of them.
   Demonstrates bodily function, not a spirit.
5. John 20:19 / Luke 24:31 – Appeared in locked rooms and vanished.
   Shows transformed, glorified abilities.

Philippians 3:21 – Christ’s body is already glorious; ours will be fashioned like it.
This confirms His resurrection body is already glorified.

“Luke 24:39 says Jesus had flesh and bones, John 20:27 shows His wounds were touchable, and Luke 24:42–43 shows He ate food—clearly His resurrection body was physical and already glorified.”

Where does it say His raised body was already glorified?

 

[civic]

Prove it.

Paul did

 

[FreeInChrist]

Where does it say His raised body was already glorified?

How many people dead or alive have you know that actually could walk through a closed door.

How many people dead or alive have you witnesses ascended toward heaven with out an airplane, balloon, or jet pack... or a form of oxygen just by rising as in the ascension?

But Jim... why does this bother you.... it says in the bible a glorified body all will have....

So you cannot understand it... You also cannot understand how a virgin got pregnant without sperm.

Or how a voice could come from heaven while a dove landed on Jesus.

The are lots of things that people do not understand... why this one is a problem/

I wish you would read the first book of Enoch as he describes what he saw. What? You figure that is fake?
Yet correct me if I am wrong but are you not one who follows science in somethings like evolution and even Genesis?