Kirk Cameron and annihilationism

[Jim]

Don't speak for me. I didn't say anything about observed. Quote me.

You can't see it. Doesn't mean it isn't tangibly there.

The fact that no one has ever observed one probably is a good indication that it is intangible.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Moving is a physical event of a physical thing. Is your spirit a physical thing?

I referenced what Jesus said about wind. Wind, by definition moves. Otherwise, you can't discern whether it is there or not.

You're getting there. Just give up this resistance to accept basic constructs of what faith requires.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The fact that no one has ever observed one probably is a good indication that it is intangible.

I don't need eyes to discern the wind.

 

[Jim]

It will reveal what you really think about Jesus. Character is about capacity. The capacity to sin indicates a lack of completeness.

That really doesn't answer why God created this universe in the first place?

 

[praise_yeshua]

That really doesn't answer why God created this universe in the first place?

I gave you another answer to that question.

 

[Jim]

I don't need eyes to discern the wind.

But you need some physical sense to discern the wind. If not eyes, then some other sense. What sense do you suppose that is? Can you sense the spirit with that sense?

 

[Jim]

I gave you another answer to that question.

And you get an F on your report card for that one.

 

[praise_yeshua]

But you need some physical sense to discern the wind. If not eyes, then some other sense. What sense do you suppose that is? Can you sense the spirit with that sense?

Okay....

So what is it that I'm sensing exactly? The wind or the result of the wind?

 

[praise_yeshua]

And you get an F on your report card for that one.

Not my judgment. Do you enjoy yourself too much to understand?

 

[Jim]

Okay....

So what is it that I'm sensing exactly? The wind or the result of the wind?

You tell me. You're the one talking about wind. I was talking about the spirit.

 

[Jim]

Not my judgment. Do you enjoy yourself too much to understand?

No, I am not like you in that.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You tell me. You're the one talking about wind. I was talking about the spirit.

Jesus compared the spirit to wind. If you knew Greek or Hebrew you would know those very words speak of "movement" relative to breath/wind.

 

[FreeInChrist]

But if God can produce this new heaven and new earth in which we all live in material, glorified, immortal bodies and no longer be tempted to disobey God, why didn't He do that to begin with? In that way, there would be no human beings receiving eternal condemnation.

My opinion and I dont want any lip from anyone on here nor from you that I am nuts, with heretic views or somehow guilty of blaspheme. You ask why God did not create a Utopia to start with perfect people?

There is no proof of what I am about to write, but then again predestination is not all it is cracked up to be especially when one considers it originally the Hebraic Jews that would have been the elect... except that did not exactly work out so Jesus had to be sent for the lost sheep of Israel...

But I digress so here is a though just to ponder on and I'll be as short as I can.

Do you remember when Lucifer rebelled and declared he would be like God?

Search Assist says this

The name "Lucifer," meaning "light-bringer," originates from Latin and was used in ancient texts to refer to the planet Venus as the morning star. It became associated with the fallen angel in Christian theology,

Now a deep search as to when he was kicked out of heaven seems to lead to Lucifer/Satan already
fallen before Genesis 3.

By the time we reach the Garden of Eden: Genesis 3:1 – “Now the serpent was more crafty…”
Satan is already evil and opposing God.

Satan had already fallen before Genesis 3.

And important side note..... Since it appears Satan fell before Gen 3, it would appear that creation itself may have started earlier then the YEC believe for I sense this ongoing feud in heaven between God and Lucifer.

So I believe when Lucifer rebelled, he and God got into it big time. And that part's not recorded in the Bible.
And because that was between those 2 that had nothing to do with us. We were not even thought of at that time.

And no reason to record it when it did not involve us exactly. Not to mention nothing pre-creation is recorded much anyway. But if , while arguing, Lucifer possibly said something to God like, if I had the opportunity. I'd prove to you that nobody would rebel against me. Everybody would love me. I would be higher then you and all would follow me. Just look at the fact that you lost 1/3 of the angels that you created because angels think I have more to offer.

None of this is recorded anywhere... I am merely projecting in my story example......

And so during those times that they fought that's when God came up with this plan to create the Earth and all life herein. It is very possible that Earth came about because this is where God was going to send Satan and see what effect Satan would have on mankind.

Earth was created and So man was made, and was given free will to accept or reject God or Satan.

And the first person Satan went after, in the form of a serpent, was Eve... and if the biblical recording was correct
it did not take him long to entice her to eat the fruit, and she had no trouble making Adam eat.

The first two people, given a luxury garden to live in, caved when enticed to do what they really wanted to but before that serpent were afraid.

And I bet there was a back-and-forth between God and Satan again, unrecorded, within the Bible because we have no need to know or that we probably were never supposed to know it. But I think it went on that Lucifer probably told him that there would be nobody that he couldn't entice away from God nobody.

And under the story of job, God told Lucifer, okay, you could do what you can against job, but you cannot harm his person. And Job basically lost it all most restored at the end. But not before he had terrible hardships, but Job proved himself to God. He loved him and trusted him.

So Lucifer lost out on that one.

But it was becoming increasingly apparent to God that mankind was not who God thought he had made.... Satan became the "god of this world" after Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, which allowed him to gain dominion over the earth. This event is described in Genesis 3, where Adam's disobedience led to Satan's influence over humanity. He lost out on Job and I suspect there has been an ongoing battle between the two while Satan tried to prove he was better then God.

God chose the Hebraic Jews as His chosen, and that was a sign for Satan to lay back... but he did not and not all
fell into the idea of worshipping God.... not even after Jesus was sent originally to earth to the lost sheep of Israel...

After this we all know the mess the world has been and is and is getting worse. We have and believe in out savior Jesus but we are in the minority. The world wants what the world wants and because of that they are not going to give it up for they see no reason.

Now this is just the tip of things I have thought over the years but this certainly would be why we were never made perfect, because once perfect we would never die and that was not the original intent of how we came to be.




And when Jesus came, he even tried to deceive Jesus or temp Jesus. But that one, he could not tempt at all, and he also could not harm him.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, I am not like you in that.

None of us hate ourselves to the point of walking away from life.

You're missing the context of this. Who do you love the most and why?

 

[civic]

Why?

Just answer it and you will find out. You sure ask allot of questions it’s time for you to answer one of mine for a change

 

[Jim]

Just answer it and you will find out. You sure ask allot of questions it’s time for you to answer one of mine for a change

Not that one.

 

[Jim]

None of us hate ourselves to the point of walking away from life.

You're missing the context of this. Who do you love the most and why?

That has nothing whatsoever to do with this topic or the immediate discussion. And you are missing the whole point of either.

 

[civic]

Not that one.

That’s very telling to say the least.

I think you know you are caught in a lose lose situation with whatever side of the fence you land. A giant pickle

 

[FreeInChrist]

But you need some physical sense to discern the wind. If not eyes, then some other sense. What sense do you suppose that is? Can you sense the spirit with that sense?

quiet, gentle promptings and feelings in your heart, as is often communicates through a sense of peace, conviction, or guidance.... Or a feeling of intense alert then you will know that you have been warned.

 

[Jim]

My opinion and I dont want any lip from anyone on here nor from you that I am nuts, with heretic views or somehow guilty of blaspheme. You ask why God did not create a Utopia to start with perfect people?

There is no proof of what I am about to write, but then again predestination is not all it is cracked up to be especially when one considers it originally the Hebraic Jews that would have been the elect... except that did not exactly work out so Jesus had to be sent for the lost sheep of Israel...

But I digress so here is a though just to ponder on and I'll be as short as I can.

Do you remember when Lucifer rebelled and declared he would be like God?

Search Assist says this

The name "Lucifer," meaning "light-bringer," originates from Latin and was used in ancient texts to refer to the planet Venus as the morning star. It became associated with the fallen angel in Christian theology,

Now a deep search as to when he was kicked out of heaven seems to lead to Lucifer/Satan already
fallen before Genesis 3.

By the time we reach the Garden of Eden: Genesis 3:1 – “Now the serpent was more crafty…”
Satan is already evil and opposing God.

Satan had already fallen before Genesis 3.

And important side note..... Since it appears Satan fell before Gen 3, it would appear that creation itself may have started earlier then the YEC believe for I sense this ongoing feud in heaven between God and Lucifer.

So I believe when Lucifer rebelled, he and God got into it big time. And that part's not recorded in the Bible.
And because that was between those 2 that had nothing to do with us. We were not even thought of at that time.

And no reason to record it when it did not involve us exactly. Not to mention nothing pre-creation is recorded much anyway. But if , while arguing, Lucifer possibly said something to God like, if I had the opportunity. I'd prove to you that nobody would rebel against me. Everybody would love me. I would be higher then you and all would follow me. Just look at the fact that you lost 1/3 of the angels that you created because angels think I have more to offer.

None of this is recorded anywhere... I am merely projecting in my story example......

And so during those times that they fought that's when God came up with this plan to create the Earth and all life herein. It is very possible that Earth came about because this is where God was going to send Satan and see what effect Satan would have on mankind.

Earth was created and So man was made, and was given free will to accept or reject God or Satan.

And the first person Satan went after, in the form of a serpent, was Eve... and if the biblical recording was correct
it did not take him long to entice her to eat the fruit, and she had no trouble making Adam eat.

The first two people, given a luxury garden to live in, caved when enticed to do what they really wanted to but before that serpent were afraid.

And I bet there was a back-and-forth between God and Satan again, unrecorded, within the Bible because we have no need to know or that we probably were never supposed to know it. But I think it went on that Lucifer probably told him that there would be nobody that he couldn't entice away from God nobody.

And under the story of job, God told Lucifer, okay, you could do what you can against job, but you cannot harm his person. And Job basically lost it all most restored at the end. But not before he had terrible hardships, but Job proved himself to God. He loved him and trusted him.

So Lucifer lost out on that one.

But it was becoming increasingly apparent to God that mankind was not who God thought he had made.... Satan became the "god of this world" after Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, which allowed him to gain dominion over the earth. This event is described in Genesis 3, where Adam's disobedience led to Satan's influence over humanity. He lost out on Job and I suspect there has been an ongoing battle between the two while Satan tried to prove he was better then God.

God chose the Hebraic Jews as His chosen, and that was a sign for Satan to lay back... but he did not and not all
fell into the idea of worshipping God.... not even after Jesus was sent originally to earth to the lost sheep of Israel...

After this we all know the mess the world has been and is and is getting worse. We have and believe in out savior Jesus but we are in the minority. The world wants what the world wants and because of that they are not going to give it up for they see no reason.

Now this is just the tip of things I have thought over the years but this certainly would be why we were never made perfect, because once perfect we would never die and that was not the original intent of how we came to be.




And when Jesus came, he even tried to deceive Jesus or temp Jesus. But that one, he could not tempt at all, and he also could not harm him.

I could agree on a lot of that. One of the things I do not agree with is the statement, "But it was becoming increasingly apparent to God that mankind was not who God thought he had made...." I think this creation is precisely what God thought it would be. He is and was always Omniscient. There is not anything that is not what God thought it would be.