Kirk Cameron and annihilationism

[Wick Stick]

I don't know if I would call it a mess. I believe it started out in complete disorder. The order of the universe has increased continuously ever since. Some Hebrew theologians intimate that is the real meaning of the repeating phrase, "there was evening and there was morning", with evening suggesting a state of an opaqueness or haziness and morning suggesting a state of an increasing clarity and definition.

Genesis 1 appears to have been originally written in the Amorite language. The repetition and progression over a 7-day period is a poetic element in other Amorite epics, where it expresses ardor in an undertaking, and the passage of time - a persistent effort. I think the take-away in Genesis 1 should be the same - that God put forth great effort in the Creation.

I guess I'm saying I disagree with the Hebrew theologians because I already have an understanding that is different from theirs.

That sounds good, but what does corporal mean other than earthly physiological substance composed of atoms?

Corporal and corporeal mean 'relating to a body.' The word doesn't try to specify the composition. A 'spiritual body' is still a body, so...

Do we really think the heavenly, the spiritual, the supernatural existence in God's realm is composed of sub-atomic particles, atoms, chemicals, materials, held together by the basic forces of this world?

I think of it in terms of thoughts and intelligence.

I don't. I know your thoughts about using such passages as Ecclesiastes 12:7 as theological truth, but I think it is significant when there it is simply stated that the body as such ceases to exist and it is the spirit which returns to God to receive what God promises.

I think that same notion is expressed by 1 Corinthians 15:

47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

God is Spirit. The heavenly is Spirit.

Right, but the Resurrection happens on the earth.

 

[FreeInChrist]

That speaks of how we will change. Not how Christ supposedly "changed".

I don't have all the answers either but I am willing to recognize facts that are uncomfortable to recognize. Facts that are essential to our understanding.

In the Incarnation, He was like us but we were not exactly like Him. This is the basic misunderstanding that Unitarians use to deny the Divinity of Christ. 'Like" never means "IDENTICAL". It just means "similar". Just like synonyms are similar but very seldom identical in meaning. Which is part of the reason why other words exist at all.

Unitarians insist that Christ must be exactly like us. He was never exactly like us. He was similar. Never exactly like us. There are many reason why I say this and make distinctions that must be recognized. Examples

1. Christ did not know what it was to sin personally. I know what it is to sin personally and to be personally responsible for my sin. Christ experiencing the results of my sin is enough. He didn't have to personally sin to experience my own guilt.
2. Christ did not see corruption when He died like I will see corruption when I die. The change you reference in 1 John 3:2 is a reference to how I need to change. Not how Christ needed to change.

As much as Unitarians want Christ to be just like them, He wasn't. I refuse to bring Christ fully down to my rank/level when He was so much better than I am. God Incarnate is such a meaningful aspect of my theology.

I believe I have a mature understanding of these topics. I'm not a novice or unlearned in this.

There is no context wherein the Person of Jesus Christ isn't superior to us in all ways. Even in the Incarnation.

Mat 23:10 Neither be you called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

There is no lack of a context of merit when it comes to the work of Jesus Christ. He in all ways merited His position. Such requires Divinity in all things.

One reply. He could never have been just like us for if he was he could never have been God. If there was proof that he was just like us, they would argue that proved he could not be God because we can't..

 

[praise_yeshua]

One reply. He could never have been just like us for if he was he could never have been God. If there was proof that he was just like us, they would argue that proved he could not be God because we can't..

This is a paradox that as Trinitarians, we never deny. We say 100 percent God and 100 percent man.

Man has devolved since the origins of Adam. We classify the context of fully man in the context of Adam. The second Adam.

Adam physically was the very best of us.

 

[Wick Stick]

One reply. He could never have been just like us for if he was he could never have been God. If there was proof that he was just like us, they would argue that proved he could not be God because we can't..

Yes we can. The message of the New Testament is that God lives in us and rules through us. We are the body of Christ.

I can't be the head, but I can be a foot or an elbow. Ah... who am I kidding? I'm a second left foot or a third thumb.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yes we can. The message of the New Testament is that God lives in us and rules through us. We are the body of Christ.

I can't be the head, but I can be a foot or an elbow. Ah... who am I kidding? I'm a second left foot or a third thumb.

Jarrod,

You know what I mean. He could never have been us... not even with God living in us... because not one of US has not sinned and therefore He simply could not have been one of us.

 

[Jim]

A 'spiritual body' is still a body, so...

Ok, but what does that even mean?

I think of it in terms of thoughts and intelligence.

At best, that speaks of a spiritual being, not a physical being.

Right, but the Resurrection happens on the earth.

Maybe, but I cannot even imagine how that could happen. When I read about the events that will occur, starting with the second coming of Jesus Christ and ending with the final judgment spoken of in Matthew 25:31-46, I do not see how that could happen in any earthly physical way.

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Try explaining how that could physically happen in an earthly sense. All the nations will be every person who has, does, and will ever live on this earth. To date that estimate is about 120 billion people. That is one huge crowd of people.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Ok, but what does that even mean?

Two words. Spiritual. Body. Don't remove that last word....

At best, that speaks of a spiritual being, not a physical being.

Why are using the word "being"? Use the word "BODY". You must. You're conflating "body" with "being". A "being" is more than just a body. However, "body" is included.

Stop conflating.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes we can. The message of the New Testament is that God lives in us and rules through us. We are the body of Christ.

I can't be the head, but I can be a foot or an elbow. Ah... who am I kidding? I'm a second left foot or a third thumb.

You just describe why you can't. At a minimum, there is rank among us. A hierarchy.

As you witness, you're not a Master of anything. Neither am I. There is only One.

One of the worst aspects of modern Christianity is the desire that most everyone has to "rule" another.

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

 

[Wick Stick]

Jarrod,

You know what I mean. He could never have been us... not even with God living in us... because not one of US has not sinned and therefore He simply could not have been one of us.

You're arguing that there can't be an outlier in a given sample. That's a bad argument.

Which is true?
Jesus WAS remarkable because He WAS human yet without sin, or...
Jesus WAS remarkable because He WAS divine, causing Him to be without sin.

Don't say 'both' - that's a cop-out.

 

[Wick Stick]

>> A spiritual body is still a body
Ok, but what does that even mean?

1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.
1Corinthians 15:44 σπείρεται σῶμα ψυχικόν ἐγείρεται σῶμα πνευματικόν ἔστιν σῶμα ψυχικόν καὶ ἔστιν σῶμα πνευματικόν

Look at πνευματικόν - we've translated it as 'spiritual' but that word is pneumatic.

Consider your pneumatic tools, a jackhammer perhaps. Are they made out of air? No, they're powered by compressed air.

The same is true for a pneumatic body. It isn't made of air (or aether, or whatever we think spirits consist of). It's powered by spirit. A "spiritual body" is a body that's powered by its spirit, or perhaps The Spirit.

It's not disembodied. It has a body. That body simply runs on different stuff.

Maybe, but I cannot even imagine how that could happen. When I read about the events that will occur, starting with the second coming of Jesus Christ and ending with the final judgment spoken of in Matthew 25:31-46, I do not see how that could happen in any earthly physical way.

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Try explaining how that could physically happen in an earthly sense. All the nations will be every person who has, does, and will ever live on this earth. To date that estimate is about 120 billion people. That is one huge crowd of people.

I can't make the logistics work for a literal, physical sense, either.

There's a couple parables right before this verse, and the chapter preceding seems to be about judgment on Israel in the 1st century. I would suggest - perhaps we should seek a metaphorical meaning, rather than creating a whole alternate reality.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You're arguing that there can't be an outlier in a given sample. That's a bad argument.

Which is true?
Jesus WAS remarkable because He WAS human yet without sin, or...
Jesus WAS remarkable because He WAS divine, causing Him to be without sin.

Don't say 'both' - that's a cop-out.

It is some semblance of both. Jesus Christ is a Divine Person. Not a human Person. Christ is Impeccable. Adam sinned because he was capable of sin. Jesus Christ was never capable of sin.

I'm not "coping out" on anything. I'll go as deep into this as you like.

It is the Divinity of the Person Jesus Christ that made Him worthy to redeem and forgive. If it were His humanity that could do such, then you would be able to redeem forgive yourself

 

[FreeInChrist]

You're arguing that there can't be an outlier in a given sample. That's a bad argument.

Which is true?
Jesus WAS remarkable because He WAS human yet without sin, or...
Jesus WAS remarkable because He WAS divine, causing Him to be without sin.

Don't say 'both' - that's a cop-out.

neither. If i cannot say both, which is the truth then it has to be neither because either one fills your question but
with out the other the question is lame.....and weakens the truth

 

[Jim]

Two words. Spiritual. Body. Don't remove that last word....

OK, But no one has yet defined that last word, "bod y", when the first word, "spiritual", is used with it.

Why are using the word "being"? Use the word "BODY". You must. You're conflating "body" with "being". A "being" is more than just a body. However, "body" is included.

I was not conflating anything. That was in response to @Wick Stick's attempt to explain what a "spiritual" body is. But of course you knew that.

Stop conflating.

I didn't.

 

[Jim]

1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.
1Corinthians 15:44 σπείρεται σῶμα ψυχικόν ἐγείρεται σῶμα πνευματικόν ἔστιν σῶμα ψυχικόν καὶ ἔστιν σῶμα πνευματικόν

Look at πνευματικόν - we've translated it as 'spiritual' but that word is pneumatic.

Consider your pneumatic tools, a jackhammer perhaps. Are they made out of air? No, they're powered by compressed air.

The same is true for a pneumatic body. It isn't made of air (or aether, or whatever we think spirits consist of). It's powered by spirit. A "spiritual body" is a body that's powered by its spirit, or perhaps The Spirit.

I hear your, but isn't that what Paul spoke about in Romans 8. We are to be, in Paul's words, governed by the Spirit now in this life

There's a couple parables right before this verse, and the chapter preceding seems to be about judgment on Israel in the 1st century. I would suggest - perhaps we should seek a metaphorical meaning, rather than creating a whole alternate reality.

I am not sure, but I think that it may well be a whole alternate reality.

 

[FreeInChrist]

OK, But no one has yet defined that last word, "bod y", when the first word, "spiritual", is used with it.

Hi Jim, Let me give it the old college try.

I think the confusion is just the word “spiritual.” It does not mean ghost or vapor or something unreal.

It simply means a real body that’s no longer mortal.


Jesus literally said after the resurrection, “Touch Me-- a spirit doesn’t have flesh and bones like I have.” He even ate food with them. So He clearly still had a body.

The difference is not body versus no body. It’s mortal body versus immortal body.

Before the cross He could die. After the resurrection He couldn’t.

So “spiritual body” just means a physical body that’s glorified and powered by God’s Spirit instead of weak flesh.

Not less physical but more alive.

See if this thought helps....

---

“I’m not saying Jesus is a ghost. I’m saying He has a real body that just can’t die anymore.”

I was not conflating anything. That was in response to @Wick Stick's attempt to explain what a "spiritual" body is. But of course you knew that.

I didn't.

 

[civic]

OK, But no one has yet defined that last word, "bod y", when the first word, "spiritual", is used with it.

I was not conflating anything. That was in response to @Wick Stick's attempt to explain what a "spiritual" body is. But of course you knew that.

I didn't.

I have defined body ( soma in Greek ) several times.

1 Corinthians 15:38-41
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: Peoplehave one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of theearthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature

1- people
2- seed
3-animals
4-birds
5-fish
6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5

So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.

These Greek Lexicons agree that soma is physical just like Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15

Every Greek Lexicon and Dictionary agrees that the Resurrected BODY(SOMA) is physical and not immaterial.

Strong's Concordance
sóma: a body
Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sóma
Phonetic Spelling: (so'-mah)
Definition: a body
Usage: body, flesh;
HELPS Word-studies
4983 sṓma – the physical body.

NT:4983) is "the body as a whole, the instrument of life," whether of man living, e. g., Matt 6:22, or dead, Matt 27:52; or in resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:44; or of beasts, Heb 13:11; of grain, 1 Cor 15:37-38; of the heavenly hosts, 1 Cor 15:40.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

More proof soma is physical

as in Greek writings from Hesiod down, the living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (cf. Song of the Three, 63); σῶμα ψυχικόν and σῶμα πνευματικόν are distinguished, 1 Corinthians 15:44 (see πνευματικός, 1 and ψυχικός, a.); τό σῶμα τίνος, Matthew 5:29; Luke 11:34; Romans 4:19; Romans 8:23 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)), etc.; ὁ ναός τοῦ σωματου αὐτοῦ, the temple which was his body, John 2:21; plural, Romans 1:24; 1 Corinthians 6:15; Ephesians 5:28; the genitive of the possessor is omitted where it is easily learned from the context, as 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 4:10; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Hebrews 10:22(23), etc.; τό σῶμα τῆς ταπεινώσεως ἡμῶν, the body of our humiliation (subjective genitive), i. e. which we wear in this servile and lowly human life, opposed to τό σῶμα τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ (i. e. τοῦ Χριστοῦ), the body which Christ has in his glorified state with God in heaven, Philippians 3:21; διά τοῦ σωματου τοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the death of Christ's body, Romans 7:4; διά τῆς προσφοράς τοῦ σωματου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the sacrificial offering of the body of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 10:10; τό σῶμα τῆς σαρκός, the body consisting of flesh, i. e. the physical body

Thayers Greek Lexicon

hope this helps !!

 

[civic]

And spiritual used with body does not mean immaterial.

Spiritual does not mean immaterial as those who reject the physical, bodily Resurrection of Christ- that He is still a man in heaven with a literal physical, tangible human body ( SOMA ) from my previous post above.

Philippians 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the bodyof our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
NASB

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.
NASB

Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.

And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.

pneumatikos: spiritual

Original Word: πνευματικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pneumatikos
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo-mat-ik-os')
Definition: spiritual
Usage: spiritual.



Thayer’s Greek Lexicon- belonging to the Divine Spirit; Used 26 times in the N.T.

a. in reference to things; emanating from the Divine Spirit, or exhibiting its effects and so its character: χάρισμα, Romans 1:11; εὐλογία, Ephesians 1:3; σοφία καί σύνεσις πνευματικῇ (opposed to σοφία σαρκικῇ, 2 Corinthians 1:12; ψυχική, James 3:15), Colossians 1:9; ᾠδαί, divinely inspired, and so redolent of the Holy Spirit, Colossians 3:16; (Ephesians 5:19Lachmann brackets); ὁ νόμος (opposed to a σάρκινος man), Romans 7:14; θυσίαι, tropically, the acts of a life dedicated to God and approved by him, due to the influence of the Holy Spirit (tacitly opposed to the sacrifices of an external worship), 1 Peter 2:5; equivalent to produced by the sole power of God himself without natural instrumeutality, supernatural, βρῶμα, πόμα, πέτρα, 1 Corinthians 10:3, 4 ((cf. 'Teaching' etc. 10, 3 [ET])); πνευματικά, thoughts, opinions, precepts, maxims, ascribable to the Holy Spirit working in the soul, 1 Corinthians 2:13(on which see συγκρίνω, 1); τά πνευματικά, spirithal gifts — of the endowments called χαρίσματα (see χάρισμα), 1 Corinthians 12:1; 1 Corinthians 14:1; universally, the spiritual or heavenly blessings of the gospel, opposed to τά σαρκικά, Romans 15:27; (1 Corinthians 9:11).

b. in reference to persons; one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 2:15 (cf. ); (); ; Galatians 6:1; οἶκος πνευματικός, of a body of Christians (see οἶκος, 1 b. at the end), 1 Peter 2:5. (The word is not found in the O. T. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 34, 3).


Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritualbody.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;


1 Corinthians 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.

Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Corinthians 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;

2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed (no body) but indeed with a heavenly body (like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.

Spiritual is used to describe these physical things:

the spiritual man
he who is spiritual
the spiritual rock
the spiritual food
the spiritual drink
the spiritual songs
the spiritual house
the spiritual things
the spiritual body

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jim]

The difference is not body versus no body. It’s mortal body versus immortal body.

Before the cross He could die. After the resurrection He couldn’t.

I see nothing in the description of Jesus, His speaking, or His actions after His resurrection that would indicate that to be true. In fact, my reading of such passages strongly indicate that was not true.

@FreeInChrist, the problem that I see in the "spiritual" body being some sort of corporeal body is that is the body that we will have in our eternal life in heaven. Such an existence makes no sense to me. Does that final corporal body need to eat, drink, sleep, and all the rest? Does it have eyes to see, ears to hear, arms and hands to manipulate things, legs and feet to walk and move, on, and on, and on? That sounds too much like we will be back to the days of the cave man existence.

If, as some have suggested, the new heaven and new earth will essentially be a paradise as originally created as Eden only without the tree of forbidden fruit, then I have to ask, "Why didn't God create it that way in the first place"? Why go through all of what exists now to simply end up back in Eden plus the eternal condemnation of so very, very many who didn't make it? None of that makes any sense to me at all.

 

[Jim]

I have defined body ( soma in Greek ) several times.

1 Corinthians 15:38-41
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: Peoplehave one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of theearthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

A summary of the bodies mentioned above are all PHYSICAL in nature

1- people
2- seed
3-animals
4-birds
5-fish
6- heavenly - the sun, moon and stars
7- earthly- all inclusive 1-5

So as we can see BODY above are all PHYSICAL in nature.

These Greek Lexicons agree that soma is physical just like Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15

Every Greek Lexicon and Dictionary agrees that the Resurrected BODY(SOMA) is physical and not immaterial.

Strong's Concordance
sóma: a body
Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sóma
Phonetic Spelling: (so'-mah)
Definition: a body
Usage: body, flesh;
HELPS Word-studies
4983 sṓma – the physical body.

NT:4983) is "the body as a whole, the instrument of life," whether of man living, e. g., Matt 6:22, or dead, Matt 27:52; or in resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:44; or of beasts, Heb 13:11; of grain, 1 Cor 15:37-38; of the heavenly hosts, 1 Cor 15:40.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

More proof soma is physical

as in Greek writings from Hesiod down, the living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (cf. Song of the Three, 63); σῶμα ψυχικόν and σῶμα πνευματικόν are distinguished, 1 Corinthians 15:44 (see πνευματικός, 1 and ψυχικός, a.); τό σῶμα τίνος, Matthew 5:29; Luke 11:34; Romans 4:19; Romans 8:23 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 187 (176)), etc.; ὁ ναός τοῦ σωματου αὐτοῦ, the temple which was his body, John 2:21; plural, Romans 1:24; 1 Corinthians 6:15; Ephesians 5:28; the genitive of the possessor is omitted where it is easily learned from the context, as 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 4:10; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Hebrews 10:22(23), etc.; τό σῶμα τῆς ταπεινώσεως ἡμῶν, the body of our humiliation (subjective genitive), i. e. which we wear in this servile and lowly human life, opposed to τό σῶμα τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ (i. e. τοῦ Χριστοῦ), the body which Christ has in his glorified state with God in heaven, Philippians 3:21; διά τοῦ σωματου τοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the death of Christ's body, Romans 7:4; διά τῆς προσφοράς τοῦ σωματου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, through the sacrificial offering of the body of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 10:10; τό σῶμα τῆς σαρκός, the body consisting of flesh, i. e. the physical body

Thayers Greek Lexicon

hope this helps !!

And spiritual used with body does not mean immaterial.

Spiritual does not mean immaterial as those who reject the physical, bodily Resurrection of Christ- that He is still a man in heaven with a literal physical, tangible human body ( SOMA ) from my previous post above.

Philippians 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the bodyof our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
NASB

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.
NASB

Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.

And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.

pneumatikos: spiritual

Original Word: πνευματικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pneumatikos
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo-mat-ik-os')
Definition: spiritual
Usage: spiritual.



Thayer’s Greek Lexicon- belonging to the Divine Spirit; Used 26 times in the N.T.

a. in reference to things; emanating from the Divine Spirit, or exhibiting its effects and so its character: χάρισμα, Romans 1:11; εὐλογία, Ephesians 1:3; σοφία καί σύνεσις πνευματικῇ (opposed to σοφία σαρκικῇ, 2 Corinthians 1:12; ψυχική, James 3:15), Colossians 1:9; ᾠδαί, divinely inspired, and so redolent of the Holy Spirit, Colossians 3:16; (Ephesians 5:19Lachmann brackets); ὁ νόμος (opposed to a σάρκινος man), Romans 7:14; θυσίαι, tropically, the acts of a life dedicated to God and approved by him, due to the influence of the Holy Spirit (tacitly opposed to the sacrifices of an external worship), 1 Peter 2:5; equivalent to produced by the sole power of God himself without natural instrumeutality, supernatural, βρῶμα, πόμα, πέτρα, 1 Corinthians 10:3, 4 ((cf. 'Teaching' etc. 10, 3 [ET])); πνευματικά, thoughts, opinions, precepts, maxims, ascribable to the Holy Spirit working in the soul, 1 Corinthians 2:13(on which see συγκρίνω, 1); τά πνευματικά, spirithal gifts — of the endowments called χαρίσματα (see χάρισμα), 1 Corinthians 12:1; 1 Corinthians 14:1; universally, the spiritual or heavenly blessings of the gospel, opposed to τά σαρκικά, Romans 15:27; (1 Corinthians 9:11).

b. in reference to persons; one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 2:15 (cf. ); (); ; Galatians 6:1; οἶκος πνευματικός, of a body of Christians (see οἶκος, 1 b. at the end), 1 Peter 2:5. (The word is not found in the O. T. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 34, 3).


Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritualbody.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;


1 Corinthians 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.

Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Corinthians 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;

2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed (no body) but indeed with a heavenly body (like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.

Spiritual is used to describe these physical things:

the spiritual man
he who is spiritual
the spiritual rock
the spiritual food
the spiritual drink
the spiritual songs
the spiritual house
the spiritual things
the spiritual body

hope this helps !!!

@civic, Given all that you have said there concerning the spiritual body that we will have, what was the purpose of all that has happened in this life? Why didn't God, in the beginning, create us as you have described the next life to be? Why do we have to go through this hell on earth? Why not the spiritual body from the very beginning?

I must say, that your description of what we will be in the next life makes no sense to me at all. See my reply # 378 to @FreeInChrist above.

 

[civic]

@civic, Given all that you have said there concerning the spiritual body that we will have, what was the purpose of all that has happened in this life? Why didn't God, in the beginning, create us as you have described the next life to be? Why do we have to go through this hell on earth? Why not the spiritual body from the very beginning?

I must say, that your description of what we will be in the next life makes no sense to me at all. See my reply # 378 to @FreeInChrist above.

why ? free will is why- thats the basis for why God is love.