Kirk Cameron and annihilationism
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praise_yeshua
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Being "human" didn't soil the Person of Jesus Christ. In fact, it fully displayed the love of God that comes forth from humility.
How does someone that is Perfect show humility? There is only one solution. The Person of Jesus Christ.
Ripping the humanity away from Jesus Christ destroys the Atonement. Just like ripping the Divinity from Jesus Christ destroys the Atonement.
They are both absolutely and vitally necessary.
He obviously believes that the "human" qualities of Christ..... soiled God. He can't escape this in what he believes. It is an inevitable conclusion.
It is why I say that most Trinitarians just don't know enough about the Character of God to really be Trinitarians. I hate to say but it is true.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
civic
Active Member
yes regarding redemption/salvation/atonement both His Deity and humanity are necessary and required. I don't know how one can read the N.T. especially the book of Hebrews ( post Ascension ) and not see the Son is still human and presently functioning as prophet, priest and king on our behalf.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Just be clear.... lets unwrap this more.
Condescending is an English word. In our lifetimes, it has morphed into something it never was before. This very word is used in early modern English to express an entirely different thought than it does today.
Rom 12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
If you study the etymology of "condescending" you will find it an example of "linguistic betrayal". It started "life" as a compliment.
You should realize that languages itself is often corrupted by the forces of evil. Slowly. Gradually. Many good thoughts are often destroyed as subsequent generations twist the meaning and application of the very words we need to communicate properly to one another.
God is right. WE are all wrong. I gave examples of what YOU would describe as "condescending" from the Scriptures. If you're going to keep insisting upon this usage, then we will never agree.
Arrogance is in the "eye of the beholder". This world sees God as being arrogant. I do not. He is right. He can't be anything but right.
atpollard
Active Member
Ummm ... a human, but a GLORIFIED human ... How many people do you know that teleport and walk through closed doors?
[Just saying that SOME things are the same and SOME things are different post resurrection.]
civic
Active Member
of course He is glorified-that happened at His Resurrection from the dead. He still has a human body that He said was "flesh and bones" that still retained the marks from His crucifixion in His side, hands, feet.
and we know He completely denied being a "spirit" which some are claiming thats who/what He is now. that is unbiblical and it is a denial of the Resurrection, the gospel, His continuation of remaining the son of man, prophet, priest, king, mediator etc....
there are so many things/doctrines/offices/roles that are held together with His present and continued humanity. there is a trickle down effect that happens when His humanity is stripped away and claim He is now a spirit. it also makes Jesus a liar and Gods word concerning the Son.
I will even say with 100% confidence its the spirit of antichrist behind the doctrine which denies Jesus is forever God manifest in the flesh. 1 John 4:2-3 and 2 John 1:7 make that clear.
hope this helps !!!
atpollard
Active Member
I agree. The BODY that came out of the TOMB is the body that Thomas got to touch, the body that ascended into heaven and the body that will return. It is not 100% incorporeal spirit ... it is an actual body. [Just different from the body that hung on the cross].
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Christ had that ability before His Resurrection.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Go ahead. Tell everyone how it was different.
Scares. Yes. He had a glorious form before His Resurrection.
Not even close.
Nah, that's not condescending. That is Jesus being truthful.
Correct. He is no longer human.
Nah. Just the obvious truth.
Being human made him a little lower than the angels. If you want to call that being soiled, that us up to you, not me.
The atonement was accomplished. Being human is no longer required for that.
civic
Active Member
its not close its a fact- ie 100% biblical truth- gospel 101 basics- foundational, salvific, essential, core doctrine, sound doctrine, the faith once and for all delivered to the saints,
2 Timothy 3:16-All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Matthew 4:4- But Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’
Acts 17:11- Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.
Ephesians 6:17- And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Hebrews 4:4- For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
2 Timothy 4:2- Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2 Timothy 2:25- In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
1 Peter 1:20-25
20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
21Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
22Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.
23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
24“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.
1 Corinthians 15:1-8
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.
1 Corinthians 15:14-18
14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
hope this helps !!!
Nothing there says one word about Jesus being human in heaven, being still lower than the angels.
Wick Stick
Active Member
This paragraph frames annihilation as some sort of revision to Christianity, or a new idea trying to supplant an older one. That isn't the case.
Annihilationism as a doctrine has existed longer than Christianity itself. We can find it in Jewish thought in the 3rd century BC. Many of the church fathers also held the view, as noted in the quote from your post:
Whether Annihilation is true or not, I don't think it should be dismissed as some kind of recent innovation. The idea has existed just as long as the idea of a hell of unending torments. They are two plants that have grown up side-by-side. That one has waxed stronger than the other doesn't mean that the other doesn't have roots.
civic
Active Member
The son of man is human
The mediator is human , a man
The resurrection of Jesus is human , a man with a human body
Jesus 2nd Coming is human, a man riding on a horse
The King on His throne in Jerusalem is human, a man like David.
The priest is human
How much evidence is needed since Jesus said He was not a spirit as you believe. He has real human flesh, real human bones with a real human body.
hope this helps !!!
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