civic
Active Member
And we know that God walked and talked with adam in the garden. But that was not the Father, it was the Son.
Kirk Cameron and annihilationism
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
Exactly. The ONLY Begotten of the Father full of Grace and Truth. The revelation of God even before He became Incarnate.
The incarnation placed a lot of limitations on God the Son. He was no longer omnipresent. And It think that most would agree that Jesus, as a human being, performed signs wonders and miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit, not by his own power.
Are thoughts tangible. I wouldn't say they were in the normal definition of tangible, at least not materially so.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I will try to come back later and respond.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
They certainly are. Remember when God said....
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
They are "tangible" in the heart of men. However, they are often powerless to become anything more but are certain tangible relative to the individual.
Because the physical cannot be omnipresent.
What does it mean that God "saw"? How? With His eyes?
As the carpenter said, "I see", as he picked up his hammer and saw.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
praise_yeshua
Active Member
What was the reason that the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus at His baptism (Matt 3:16: Isaiah 11:2 etc.) ?
civic
Active Member
To begin His earthly ministry. It was a SIGN for John to see that indeed He was the promised Messiah. He is fully God
John 1:32-34
Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. / I myself did not know Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ / I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”
atpollard
Active Member
While I agree that Jesus WAS "fully God, fully man lacking nothing in either His Deity or humanity", I do not think that Jim is wrong here.
- During his incarnation (from his birth in Bethlehem to his resurrection outside Jerusalem) Jesus was NOT omnipresent.
- During his earthly ministry, Jesus operated by the power of Prayer and the Holy Spirit like any other man (proving that we could “follow him”).
Philippians 2:5-7 [NASB]
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, as He [already] existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself [by] taking the form of a bond-servant [and] being born in the likeness of men.
So, did Jesus empty himself or grasp his equality with God?
civic
Active Member
I have a thread on this topic from my studies I'll post here.
Philippians 2:5-8
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
NIV
These translation capture the meaning of the text in its CONTEXT.
New International Version
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
New Living Translation
Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,
New King James Version
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
King James Bible
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Thayers Greek Lexicon
namely, τοῦ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ or τῆς μορφῆς τοῦ Θεοῦ, i. e. he laid aside equality with or the form of God (said of Christ), Philippians 2:7
Strongs Lexicon
From kenos; to make empty, i.e. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify -- make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.
Louw Nida Greek Lexicon
87.70 κενόωb: to completely remove or eliminate elements of high status or rank by eliminating all privileges or prerogatives associated with such status or rank.
What Paul makes very clear in this passage is that in addition to being God, He became man. The Incarnation was not a subtraction of His deity but an addition of humanity to His nature. This passage does not say Jesus gave up His deity but that He laid aside His rights as Deity, assuming the form of a servant in verse 7. The text says He was in the form of God or being in the very nature of God in 2:6. Just as He took upon Himself the "form of a servant" which is a servant by nature, so the "form of God" is God by nature.
The word "being" from the phrase: being in the very form of God is a present active participle. This means "continued existence" as God. What Paul is actually saying here is Jesus has always been and still is in the "form of God". If you continue reading the passage Paul really drives this point home so that his readers have no doubt what he is trying to get across to the Philippians. Paul says that every knee will bow and will one day Confess Jesus is LORD. Paul takes the passage in Isaiah 45:23 which clearly refers to Yahweh a name used for God alone and says this of Jesus. The fulfillment of YHWH in Isaiah 45 is none other than Jesus who is God(Yahweh) in the flesh.
Jesus self limited His divine prerogatives via the Incarnation as per Phil 2. In other words did not use them to His advantage but was in submission to the Father for 33 years to accomplish our salvation. All the FULLNESS of DEITY dwells in bodily form. Col 1:19, 2:9. Jesus was and is fully God lacking nothing in His Deity.
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Even through Christ existed in the form of God He did not regard equality with God something that He needed to reach for or grasp. Why because it was already His and never gave that up for a millisecond.
Paul is using syllogisms from the text in Philippians 2.
Just as the term “form of God” in verse six does not mean “less than God” because of the phrase “equality with God" in the prior passage.
It goes to reason in the same way with the 2 phrases in the “form of a servant” and in the “likeness of man” in verse seven do not mean that Jesus was any “less than human,” but instead means He was the same or “equal with all humans.”
That is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT ".
In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus.
conclusion:When Jesus came to earth He laid aside or emptied Himself of something. There are many misconceptions at to what He set aside. It was not His Deity. Jesus could not empty Himself of His Deity - He could not stop being God. He was always God the Son. He could not exchange His Deity for His humanity. Neither did He set aside only some of His divine attributes and keep others. In addition, Jesus always knew He was God and possessed these divine attributes - He was not ignorant of who He was or what He could do. Moreover Jesus allowed the people to know that He had such powers. Neither did Jesus set aside the use of His relative attributes such as being all-powerful, all-knowing, and everywhere present. Those powers were always present with Him.When Jesus became a human being He divested Himself of certain rights as God the Son. This can be seen in three ways. First He restricted Himself to a human body with all its limitations. He gave up His position when He became a human being. Second He veiled or hid His glory from the people. Finally, He exercised His relative attributes only by the will of God the Father - never on His own initiative.
hope this helps !!!
atpollard
Active Member
Was Jesus OMNIPRESENT when he lived on the earth?
Were the Mormons right that Jesus was in Galilee and visiting the Native Americans at the same time?
civic
Active Member
Jesus is OMNIPRESENT -
Matthew 18:20,
For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.”
Matthew 28:20
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
John 3:13
13And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, eventhe Son of man, who is in heaven.
John 1:48, where Jesus tells Nathanael, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you
That should tell you that Jesus who is in heaven now is not still in his earthly human body. Nothing material or corporal can be omnipresent.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
A glorified body IS NOT an earthly body.
The glorified body is incorruptible, immortal, and designed for eternal life in heaven, while the earthly body is subject to decay, weakness, and death. In essence, the glorified body reflects a perfected state free from the limitations and suffering of our current physical existence.
What are glorified bodies in the Bible? ► |
What does the Bible say about glorified bodies? GLORIFIED BODIES IN SCRIPTURETHE PROMISE OF RESURRECTION Scripture consistently affirms that those who belong to Christ will be raised in glorified bodies. “It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory” (1 Corinthians 15:43). This promise serves as a cornerstone of hope for believers, pointing toward a transformation that transcends mortality. THE MODEL OF CHRIST’S RESURRECTION BODY Jesus’ physical resurrection provides the primary example of what a glorified body looks like. Following His crucifixion, He rose and appeared to His disciples in bodily form (Luke 24:36-39). Yet this body was fundamentally different from a mere resuscitated corpse: “He appeared in another form” (Mark 16:12). After the Resurrection, Jesus could enter locked rooms (John 20:19), and yet He could still eat (Luke 24:42-43). This demonstrates both a real, tangible body and capabilities that go beyond ordinary human limitations. Paul explains that believers are conformed to Christ’s glorified state: “He... will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body” (Philippians 3:21). Because Christ’s resurrected body was free from decay and physical limitations, we anticipate a future body that is imperishable and honor-filled. DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EARTHLY AND GLORIFIED BODIES In 1 Corinthians 15:42-44, Paul contrasts our natural bodies with the glorified bodies we will receive. Our current bodies experience labor, sickness, and sin’s effects, but our future bodies will not. He depicts an imperishable, powerful, and spiritual existence: “It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body” (1 Corinthians 15:44). This “spiritual body” does not mean immaterial; rather, it exists under the direct life-giving power of God’s Spirit. THE TIMING OF RECEIVING A GLORIFIED BODY Believers are resurrected at the return of Christ. Paul explains, “The dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that... we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 excerpt). This indicates that at Christ’s Second Coming, those who have died and those still living will be instantaneously changed and clothed with immortality (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). OLD TESTAMENT AND FUTURE RESURRECTION The Old Testament anticipates a future bodily resurrection. Job declared, “Yet in my flesh I will see God” (Job 19:26 excerpt). Daniel also records a promise of resurrection: “Many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake” (Daniel 12:2 excerpt). These passages foreshadow the hope of being raised in a transformed body, which the New Testament clarifies through Christ’s finished work. ASSURANCE THROUGH CHRIST’S RESURRECTION Multiple lines of early Christian and historical evidence indicate that Jesus’ tomb was found empty, and that His followers had profound experiences of the risen Christ. Researchers across a wide spectrum of belief systems acknowledge the early testimony of Paul (1 Corinthians 15:3-7) as historically reliable. This foundation supports the doctrinal claim of a future resurrection for believers. Because Christ was physically raised, His people can trust that they too will be raised with bodies made new. THE GLORIFIED BODY’S CHARACTERISTICS 1) Imperishable: There will be no sickness, aging, or death. 2) Powerful: Abilities exceed current human limitations, subject to God’s design. 3) Recognizable: Jesus was recognized after His resurrection, though sometimes not immediately (Luke 24:31). 4) Spiritual and Physical: Though glorified, the body is still “bodily,” just as Jesus ate and was touched. IMPLICATIONS FOR DAILY LIFE The promise of a future resurrection body instills hope and motivates holy living. Paul teaches that the knowledge of resurrection steadies believers in hardship: “Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast... your labor in the Lord is not in vain” (1 Corinthians 15:58 excerpt). With a guaranteed victory over death, believers are free to persevere and serve confidently. OBJECTIONS AND CLARIFICATIONS Some question how a physical body can be truly eternal. However, biblical teaching presents God as the all-powerful Creator, fully capable of transforming decay-prone flesh into an everlasting form. This theme aligns with reports of Christ’s miraculous healings and further underscores God’s sovereign ability to restore and renew. Others raise concerns about identity-will each individual remain truly themselves? The scriptural view is that our personal individuality continues in our resurrected state, perfected and made whole in Christ. We see this in Jesus’ post-resurrection appearances: He was identifiable as the same person, yet glorified and no longer bound by mortal weakness. CONCLUSION The Bible’s teaching on glorified bodies reaffirms God’s redemptive plan that extends to both soul and body. Because Christ secured resurrection life through His victory over death, believers look forward to a future body that is imperishable, glorious, and fit for eternal communion with God. This confident expectation not only provides comfort but also lays a foundation for hope, worship, and dedicated service in the present life. |
