John MacArthur on Calvinism and Arminianism
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
So he is a liar then. Are you a Christain?
civic
Active Member
The early Christians were strong believers in free will. For example, Justin Martyr made this argument to the Romans: We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and rewards are rendered according to the merit of each man's actions. Otherwise, if all things happen by fate, then nothing is in our own power. For if it is predestined that one man be good and another man evil, then the first is not deserving of praise or the other to be blamed. Unless humans have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actionswhatever they may be.... For neither would a man be worthy of reward or praise if he did not of himself choose the good, but was merely created for that end. Likewise, if a man were evil, he would not deserve punishment, since he was not evil of himself, being unable to do anything else than what he was made for.
Clement echoed the same belief: Neither praise nor condemnation, neither rewards nor punishments, are right if the soul does not have the power of choice and avoidance, if evil is involuntary.
Archelaus, writing a few decades later, repeated the same understanding: All the creatures that God made, He made very good. And He gave to every individual the sense of free will, by which standard He also instituted the law of judgment.... And certainly whoever will, may keep the commandments. Whoever despises them and turns aside to what is contrary to them, shall yet without doubt have to face this law of judgment.... There can be no doubt that every individual, in using his own proper power of will, may shape his course in whatever direction he pleases.
Methodius, a Christian martyr who lived near the end of the third century, wrote similarly, Those [pagans] who decide that man does not have free will, but say that he is governed by the unavoidable necessities of fate, are guilty of impiety toward God Himself, making Him out to be the cause and author of human evils.
The early Christians weren't simply speculating about this matter, but rather they based their beliefs on the following Scriptures, among others:
For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16).
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9).
The Spirit and the bride say, Come!' And let him who hears say, Come!' And let him who thirsts come. And whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely (Rev. 22:17).
I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live (Deut. 30:19).
So originally, it was the pagan world, not the Christians, who believed in predestination. From Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
he made false claims about church history- call it whatever you want but its not the truth.I have presented the truth in this thread. I know Macs teaching very well I was a student of his for over 4 decades.
You called him a liar. You claimed it was deliberate. REPENT and apologizehe made false claims about church history- call it whatever you want but its not the truth.
civic
Active Member
civic
Active Member
I don't need to repent for calling out false teaching.
The natural ability to make choices free from force or coercion.
You called him a liar Mr know everything. Do you know Matthew 7:1 by chance?
REPENT and apologize
civic
Active Member
where did your faith come from ?
Repent and apologize. Matthew 7:1
civic
Active Member
I guess Paul didn't get the memo eh since he commanded believers to judge.
1 Cor 5:3-Although I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit, and I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present.
1 Cor 5:12- What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you
You called him a liar. REPENT and apologize. Matthew 7:1
Rockson
Active Member
Readers beware while our good friend here makes claim MAN has free will to choose without force or coercion they'll usually go right ahead later and assert everything is ordained by God. They'll also state God uses an irresistible force which cannot be denied when it comes to making one a child of God.
civic
Active Member
yes another blatant contradiction in their theology. when its not built upon truth its full of contradictions as you have astutely pointed out.
God need not use force or coercion to ordain anything such as Acts 4:27,28.
Rockson
Active Member
You were talking to another but it would be nice to see you repent and apologize to God for saying he says one thing but means another, as in Jesus telling the people how he longed to gather them as a hen gathers her chicks but those of your persuasion say no he really didn't mean that. If they weren't gathered that was really his will for them not to be. So what are you calling Jesus by doing that. I won't say the word. I should think it's pretty obvious. Check your heart. Maybe do what you've told the other above to do?
Bump for civic. Matthew 7:1
Good try. A different understanding is nothing to apologize for.
